Marion Bartoli looks heavier

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by nikdom, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Looks like she had a good Christmas :)

    I don't understand how some of the women on the wta can be so pudgy despite playing, training all the time. Must be bad eating habits.

    Edit:- not making fun, but wondering why nutrition science doesn't seem to be getting to some players on the wta side who could clearly use it.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
    #1
  2. tata

    tata Professional

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    Must all the chocolates they devour from tough emotional losses.
     
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  3. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    #3
  4. Candide

    Candide Professional

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    Wow, I've fallen asleep and woken up back in the 1950s.
     
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  5. Vanhool

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    Welcome to TTW!
     
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  6. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Why? Talking about Nalbo's fondness for donuts i.e his lack of fitness is a valid tennis topic, but because it's a wta player, now it's misogynist?
     
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  7. Candide

    Candide Professional

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    Not so much this as...

    "Must all the chocolates they devour from tough emotional losses."

    ... that. If you really think this is sports psychology or has the makings of an in depth discussion regarding training methods or nutrition science rather than a chance for some couch potatoes to indulge in a fat chick bashing festival then have at it.
     
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  8. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, ignore the low brow stuff. My question is sincere though. It cannot be more contrasting to see guys like Djokovic and Murray squeeze the last drop out of their fitness with diet and training methods.

    For someone whose dad is supposedly a medical doctor, how can Bartoli be so lackadaisical about her fitness? Clearly she has a good game that could benefit from a lighter frame.
     
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  9. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    It is not outside the realm of possibility. Check out Agassi's autobiography, he said that when he used to get down, he used to go on drives with his Gil Reyes with a "sack of hamburgers". :)
     
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  10. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    It's a sensitive topic, but I read somewhere(can't remember where now) about a female pro talking about the women's locker room and how it's rife with eating disorders.

    Normal people like us might struggle with lack of exercise or no time for cooking and eating right, but it's surprising for pro athletes.
     
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  11. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    What's Bartoli's swingweight?
     
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  12. Candide

    Candide Professional

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    Point taken but women's bodies are different to men's. They just have a higher proportion of body fat on average. Physiques like Sam Stosur's are genetic outliers and I don't buy that a couple of extra kgs is an indication of poor training. Some of the women on tour look like they've walked out of a concentration camp - wasted and damaged. The woman with probably the most consistent high body fat measure over the last decade would have to be Serena, especially at the start of the season. By June that's burned off and it hasn't hurt her stamina noticably. I remember about two years ago Nadal went from looking like a wrestler at the start of the season to a marathon runner by the end. He looked haggared and burned out. It's a long, hard year and a something of a buffer against the rigour would seem to make sense. Like Tour de France riders say they stuff their faces in the weeks before the race because whatever happens those calories are going to be burnt off long before the end of the race. Cue some doofus to say, "No fat chicks."
     
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  13. Candide

    Candide Professional

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    Ah, back on message. That didn't take long. Ejector seat engaged.
     
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  14. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    Probably slow metabolism.

    I can eat as much as I want, and not play tennis for a week and still not gain a pound. I have the fastest metabolism a human can possibly have.

    Whereas I've noticed others who have to starve themselves just to avoid being extremely overweight, and are overweight even with a light diet.
     
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  15. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, but you are talking about Bartoli--a player with a career-long history of weight issues, and barely any visible muscular development (and that means even at resting, not some photo of her in mid swing, or fist pumping, etc.). She lives in a void where she (and her father) believe everything regarding her training is 100% correct.

    Nevermind Bartoli--who seems to hate the air others breathe--always comes up short at the majors (read: not winning them), which could be a sign of two things:

    1. Her training is not what she and her daddy believe it to be.

    2. Perhaps she's just not the super-talent of daddy's dreams.
     
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  16. axel89

    axel89 Banned

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    picture or thread invalid :)
     
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  17. Masayoshi

    Masayoshi Semi-Pro

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    Being a bit overweight doesn't really preclude having great conditioning and strength. It does mean that you're dragging around more cargo, and whatever movements you do make will cost you more energy to execute, though. This has implications for long match stamina and quick reflexes (like with direction changes).

    Luckily for the women, the men have to play 50-66% more tennis during the slams than they do, so overall endurance is less of an issue. I reckon that extra weight may increase chance of injury, though.
     
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  18. Borrelli

    Borrelli Semi-Pro

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    That seems like a bit too convenient of a excuse. Serena is always hurt during the season anyway so if she knows that she's prone to injury why would she "bulk up" as you say at the start? As large as she is she seems to manage her diet and fitness pretty well. It's one's like Bartoli and Kvitova that seem to be just outright careless about it. I think the women's game actually encourage's them to kinda bulk up so that they can just bash the ball harder, doesn't seem like speed and lightness is their biggest concern on the WTA.
     
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  19. Emet74

    Emet74 Professional

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    As for Bartoli, read that years ago she tried a different coach or advisor who asked her to lose weight but when she did her groundstrokes lost some of their power, so she went back to her more natural weight.

    As for Serena, she's fluctuated but anyone who thinks she's in anyway overweight or out of shape currently has no understanding of women's bodies. Serena is a naturally voluptuous woman -completely different body type from her sister Venus, and will never look like Kirelenko unless she really was in a concentration camp.

    No question there are some women who do seem heavier than they should be - who knows, it could be emotional eating. Monica Seles' book is interesting in that regard as she admits to basically overeating for years on tour and was only able to get her weight under control after retirement.
     
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  20. Brian11785

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    Beat me to it. She's never going to be the best mover, so she might as well have that little extra umph behind her shots.
     
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  21. President

    President Legend

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    Bartoli looking thick, solid, tight, will win Australian Open.
     
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  22. ivan_the_terrible

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    More cushion for the pushing
     
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  23. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    Marion is not fat.

    do you guys expect female athletes to fall under one of either?
    - fashion model thin, e.g. Ana Ivanovic
    - bodybuilder ripped, e.g. Sam Stosur

    hate to break it to you, but most women have a layer of fat around their bodies unless they're malnourished. it's genetic.
     
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  24. DRII

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    Bartoli's father has specifically mentioned that when she's thin her stamina and power are less; so he perfers her to maintain what he considers is her natural weight.

    You're generalizing way too much! Personally I think some guys need to lose some weight and taper down their bulk (Verdasco for example), but you hardly see threads saying such.

    Women have different bodies and you shouldn't hold them to the same standard...
     
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  25. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Lucky bast*** :)
     
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  26. President

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    Well it's not like Bartoli is the fleetest of foot out there, so I think her weight IS holding her back. Verdasco isn't bodybuilder huge, and is all muscle. He trained hard to get that look. Bartoli just sat at home and ate cake to achieve hers LOL. Incomparable situations
     
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  27. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Verdasco is too heavy. He may have gotten some modeling gigs and more TV commercials since he bulked up, but i don't think its helped his tennis after a certain point. He also seems often times injured; he weight trains too much...
     
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  28. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    There are plenty examples of men who could lose some flab (and some who did) to see an improvement in their games.

    Two immediate examples I can cite are Mardy Fish and Andy Roddick. When ARod first hired Stefanki, Larry asked him to lose 20 lbs and Andy did. He saw a big improvement in his game and results. We all know Fish's story.

    But it's also clear thw WTA has a more prevalent weight/body fat issue - take Kvitova for example. She's tall and looks lean enough until you see notice the love handles, small paunch and double chin.

    I don't buy the women-carry-more-body fat argument*. There are plenty other female athletes in other sports (Olympics anyone?) that may not be ripped like Stosur but are lean and well plainly "athletic".
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    * comparing female athlete to female non-athlete. Obviously a female will have greater body fat percentage than a man.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
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  29. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
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  30. DRII

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    Are you completely unfamiliar with the female body :confused:

    You sound completely naive!

    Females are blessed with the burden of carrying and baring children; hence their bodies are composed of more body fat (in some areas that are obvious). Therefore the same standard should not be used when judging their physiques. Of course fitness can be increased for some of the WTA players, but many of those female Olympic athletes you mentioned probably haven't had a regular menstrual cycle in years (especially when they're training).
     
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  31. bhallic24

    bhallic24 Guest

    Yup I fall into your category. Honestly, rather be a little bit more towards the other side. I eat and eat but can't pack on the weight. I mean in order to gain 5 pounds a few summers ago I had to constantly think about food and force myself to eat 5 meals a day.
     
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  32. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    See my edit.


    You completely ignored the point I'm making comparing female tennis players to other female athletes. Look at Lolo Jones who is a woman and can bear children alright (btw its bear, not bare), is an athlete and seems a 100 times fitter than the avg wta player.
     
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  33. bhallic24

    bhallic24 Guest

    I second that. Lolo can run circles around Bartoli. And I guess you can take that literally. Seriously Bartoli needs to burn off some of that cookie dough.
     
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  34. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    I noticed you changed your original statement, where you focus on 'looks'; shows what your intent (subconscious or not) really is!

    What is 'seems fitter' :confused:

    A sprinter is different from a tennis player; different athletic attributes are required for each. Serena is an obvious example here. She has looked quite heavy at times but still won slams and therefore was obviously fit.

    I suggest you not focus on the aesthetic so much!
     
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  35. nikdom

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    The culture around tennis (coaches, nutritionists etc) still believes in the old school "you need plenty of carbs" philosophy. Players are big on pasta. I wonder if that doesn't hurt in putting on flab despite the exercise - carbs make you hungrier when you exercise.

    This culture has changed in other sports. Most other sports people nowadays concentrate on clean eating with lots of veggies, lean protein and gluten free sources of complex carbs like a little brown rice or yams.
     
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  36. Avles

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    If the average female carries more body fat than the average male, why shouldn't the average female tennis player carry more body fat than the average male tennis player?

    Tennis is not track. You don't win tennis matches by being 1/10 of a second faster than your opponent, but by combining strength, speed, agility, stamina and skill. There's just no guarantee that being skinnier would make Bartoli a better player.

    As it stands, Bartoli is #11 in the world. That's the world, as in the whole world, the one with 7 billion people in it. So her body composition seems to be working out pretty well for her.
     
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  37. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I changed the "looks" part to "fitness" so I'm not hung out to dry again about some sort of sexism. Bcos I am talking about fitness, not about aesthetic or sex appeal.

    Don't give me that sprinting is not tennis bit. You can look at a bunch of other sports - swimming, beach volleyball, gymnastics, boxing, track, rowing etc where female athletes are lean and look nothing like Serena. The only female athletes who seem to be thick are the ones where there isn't much aerobic activity - power lifters and shot put throwers.
     
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  38. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    Really! How do you know she couldn't be no.1 if she weren't plump?

    In fact, Justine Henin was a perfect example of how fitness allowed her to punch above her level and get to No.1. You think Bartoli with all her mass for strength is better than the diminutive Justine?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
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  39. President

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    Speaking of Serena, there is absolutely no comparison between her and Bartoli. Serena is all muscle and actually has a six pack these days! She carries less body fat than even girls like Sharapova and Azarenka. On the other hand Bartoli is all fat and has no explosive ability. There is NO way all that excess weight is good for her on the tennis court.
     
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  40. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    So Serena being the best player in the world right now, or a slam winner and favorite even when she looked heavier, is not enough evidence for you that a woman player does not have to be thin as a stick in order to play good tennis :confused:

    Also, women boxers are not all skinny and lean, not even close...
     
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  41. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Bartoli's father/coach disagrees with you!

    Also Serena was winning slams when she was not nearly as lean as she is now; and either way she is not 'all muscle' -- Serena is quite 'thick'...
     
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  42. Relinquis

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    lolo is in a sport where everyone has to have a six pack. a sport that is based on moving your mass from one point to another in the shortest time possible. obviously having lower mass, that isn't muscle, helps. tennis is not such a sport.

    anyway, back to tennis, Bartoli isn't ranked that far off of Stosur at the moment (11 vs. 9) and has more singles titles to her name and their head to head is tied or very close (haven't checked) i don't see what the issue is.

    look at roger federer. he's just a thin guy with great touch. looks puny compared to other athletes, even other male tennis players, yet he is the GOAT and by a wide margin. does he have a six pack like lolo's? maybe he should train like she does.
     
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  43. nikdom

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    You are making my argument for me. Serena has nowhere near the body fat of Bartoli. She's more muscular and fitter. Even then, she can get away with not being leaner still because the field is so unfit. How else do you think Henin, who literally looks like a dwarf in comparison to Serena was able to win against her?
     
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  44. nadal_GOAT_king

    nadal_GOAT_king Rookie

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    Gaining muscle mass as opposed to fat would be better, no?
     
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  45. DRII

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    We're not talking about the weakness of the WTA recently. Even if we were, I wouldn't blame it on the body fat %s of the WTA. Even in its heyday there were 'heavier' players like Davenport or Pierce.

    My point is body types are different and should not be judged one to one against one another; particularly when it comes to gender.

    Just because someone looks fit or unfit to you does not neccesarily corelate to reality.

    Also, Serena has had similar body fat to Bartoli at certain points and still was winning slams...
     
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  46. President

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    [​IMG]

    You can clearly see that Serena has six pack abs there; aka VERY little body fat. Even when Serena wasn't as lean as she is now she still had significant muscle mass. On the other hand, Bartoli is just fat, no muscle definition and no explosive ability. At least if you are fat you should have muscle mass, but Bartoli doesn't and it hurts her a lot.

    You say Bartoli is doing well enough now, but have you ever thought she would be much better if she was as strong and fit as Serena or even Henin? Bartoli is clearly a much better ballstriker than someone like Stosur but Stosur's physicality enables her to be a more successful player even if she is a much inferior talent.
     
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  47. DRII

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    Could be...

    but most women cannot gain muscle like Serena, perhaps Stosur, without supplementation. That is a genetic anomaly much more so than women having more body fat in general.
     
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  48. SwankPeRFection

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    No, Marion IS fat. When she's standing to serve and you can see cel on the back of her legs, she's fat. There's a difference between being fat and being built bigger than most girls. She's definitely got a few pounds in tow now.
     
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  49. OHBH

    OHBH Semi-Pro

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    If marion is not fat than she has absolutely no muscle tone, either way she has a problem.
     
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  50. nikdom

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    Athletes do supplement. It's called a protein shake. You sound like an excuse making apologist for people who won't take personal responsibility for their health and fitness and instead blame genetics for everything.

    An athlete should want to be the best they can be. Sadly, even admitting that has become a problem in our PC culture where not hurting feelings are more important than improvement and progress.
     
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