McE really is thick

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by MarcRosset1992, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    picked up this article on tennis.com

    http://tennis.com/features/general/features.aspx?id=177914

    My favorite paragraph is:

    "The game that dominates today was pioneered by one of McEnroe’s great career rivals, Ivan Lendl. “It’s all about dictating play—taking control of a point with a big serve followed with your first shot off the return, preferably a big forehand. Ivan is probably tearing his hair out today, because he would have thrived in this climate,” says McEnroe. “But my way of dealing with that was to take the ball early, not let a guy like Lendl dictate the terms, and I’m not so sure there isn’t room for that strategy anymore.”

    What was McE's record against Lendl? Did he EVER win?
    Lendl (and Becker) are the only palyer of the 80'd who should be allowed to say anything about modern tennis
     
    #1
  2. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,123
    It's more I think an opinion on what JMac would like esthetically than anything else, and I kind of agree that there was too much attacking play in his days but there's too little now, which makes it a little easier for the very best baseliners.

    Also I think that if we are allowed to generate opinions about tennis on this board, a great tennisplayer and one of the best, if not the best, volleyer(s) of all time should be allowed to as well
     
    #2
  3. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    Yes, he beat Lendl 15 times. I really can't see why he shouln't give his opinion about tactics. Wilander is another guy who played well in the 80s.
     
    #3
  4. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    The problem with McE in this article is that he is basically suggesting that modern players replicate a strategy that got him nowhere other than humiliation (against Lendl). How retarded is that?
     
    #4
  5. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    How many times did he win after 1984? How many times did he lose?
     
    #5
  6. gj011

    gj011 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,548
    Location:
    Back from prison
    Time to grow up. Nothing wrong with what McEnroe said.
     
    #6
  7. Joseph L. Barrow

    Joseph L. Barrow Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,234
    McEnroe had a winning record against Lendl until the late '80s, by which time he was substantially past his best.
     
    #7
  8. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    We're only figuring this out now?

    McEnroe has never been particularly bright.
     
    #8
  9. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,326
    3-13

    How many times did Lendl win between 1983 and 1984? How many times did he lose?

    2-10

    So what's your point? :confused:

    McEnroe's career declined after 1984 and he never won another Grand Slam. He also had lots of personal issues and took time off from the tour.
     
    #9
  10. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    boooh!:-?

    It is 11-3 Lendl after 1984, and 10-1 after 1985. McE only won once, on the highly popular carpet.... Once modern tennis came in the form of Lendl and Becker, he folded. The guy has nothing to contribute of any relevance
     
    #10
  11. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Point is that McE has no idea about modern tennis, and should should certainly refrain from offering strategic advice to players who are all vastly superior athletes to what he ever was
     
    #11
  12. Joseph L. Barrow

    Joseph L. Barrow Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,234
    So you're saying that only a prime Lendl's record against an over-the-hill McEnroe is relevant?
     
    #12
  13. One of the best, most famous, players of all time (some think THE best) has nothing to contribute of any relevance?

    But you and I do?
     
    #13
  14. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
     
    #14
  15. Fandango

    Fandango Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    275
    you can take a lot of time from your opponent by rushing to the net-something mac was good at
     
    #15
  16. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    THE best, pleeeeeaaasse:) someone who is 2-8 against Becker and 1-11 against Lendl is NOT the best, just a very average player once men left the stone age and stopped using wooden sticks to play tennis
     
    #16
  17. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,050
    McEnroe in his prime was a level above Lendl and Becker; clearly the most talented player of the 80s.
     
    #17
  18. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    Yeah but isn't Borg better than Becker and Lendl? What was Mac's record against the better Borg?
     
    #18
  19. very average. :rolleyes:
     
    #19
  20. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    25,781
    Location:
    Weak era
    Eh,LOL? Put prime Becker and Lendl today and they'd still kick ***,no question about it for me.
     
    #20
  21. Ocean Drive

    Ocean Drive Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,714
     
    #21
  22. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,412
    #22
  23. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    Very average gets you 7 slams and 77 titles? :shock:
    (he's 15-21 against Lendl, the head to head with Becker is irrelevant because Becker is much younger)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2009
    #23
  24. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,003
    Location:
    Windsor, England
    McEnroe was a great player, but has always been a bit stupid.
     
    #24
  25. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,562
    You are leaving out the fact that Lendl totally dominated their head to head prior to 1983 (7-2). In 1981 and 1982, Lendl won all 7 matches they played. This cannot be attributed to an "over the hill McEnroe." Nor can the record in the second half of the 80s be attributed only to that. McEnroe was ranked as high as number 4, as late as 1989, and his tennis was probably as good as ever, or not far from it, except that the competition in the second half of the 80s included Becker, Edberg, Wilander and Lendl, all in their primes. Being ranked 4 in those days was no small feat.
     
    #25
  26. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    4,973
    SO modern tennis magically developed in on year and it was obvious that McEnroe was now suddenly playing from the stone age....lol. How about McEnroe was past his best after 84 and Lendl was approaching his. Besides doesn't prior to 84 mean that Modern Tennis gets trashed by Ancient Tennis so shouldn't ancient tennis know best?
     
    #26
  27. kaiotic

    kaiotic Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Messages:
    269
    werd!!! crack is wack, rosset92 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
     
    #27
  28. kaiotic

    kaiotic Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Messages:
    269
    brilliant player but the biggest *a$$h0 on the court. so annoying to watch.
     
    #28
  29. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,264
    good article thanks for the link. McEnroe is right like usual. It’s nice to have such great commentary and insight.

    McEnroe knows more about the modern game than all of the posters in this thread combined including me. He is still actively involved in tennis, hits and talks with today’s pros regularly. Not to mention that everything he says in the article is correct.
     
    #29
  30. Joseph L. Barrow

    Joseph L. Barrow Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,234
    And obviously you're leaving out that McEnroe beat Lendl 10 out of 12 times in '83-84. Even in '85, it was 3-2 for Lendl with one of those being very tight, meaning that while he was in or near his prime, McEnroe had an overall 14-12 edge on Lendl. He had personal issues and injury problems that put him frequently out of action and sharply lowered his level of play starting in '86, after which Lendl took over their head-to-head, winning nine of their last 10 encounters. It's a pretty serious stretch to claim McEnroe was as good at 30 years old, after a long bout of injuries and personal problems, and when he was losing in the second round of the US Open to a qualifier, as he was when he was world's #1 four consecutive seasons six to 10 years earlier. Lendl did not have the advantage over a prime McEnroe.
     
    #30
  31. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Wrong, his involvement with pro tennis is pretty limited to the Viagra tour and to the commentary box for such tennis-savvy audiences as NBC's or the BBC's. Most modern players find him either irrelevant or annoying, and frankly it is mostly the latter since the bit of self-promotion around offering to coach Fed earlier this year.
     
    #31
  32. Brned

    Brned Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    205
    ^^ I agree with the last part.

    Mac offering his help to coach federer was really lame...

    Has Jmac ever worked as a coach?
     
    #32
  33. gpt

    gpt Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2009
    Messages:
    879
    The article is primarily about playing on grass.
     
    #33
  34. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,562
     
    #34
  35. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,487
    At his age now, he could probably still double bagel you, so I wouldn't talk too much.
     
    #35
  36. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    8,799

    McEnroe has coached. McEnroe has coached Bruguera, Becker, and Philippoussis.
     
    #36
  37. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,699
    I suspect it wouldn't be that close. Mac actually made some very good points about mixing it up with today's players. I think the primary problem is that very few players have the midcourt and improvisational skills it takes to pull it off. There is no question that the technology has (for now) taken some of that out of the game.
     
    #37
  38. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Not sure I am talking that much, and if I do I use the correct body parts to do it, unlike McE.

    As for the double bagel, I would actually fancy my chances to do a little better than that:wink:
     
    #38
  39. Joseph L. Barrow

    Joseph L. Barrow Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,234
     
    #39
  40. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
     
    #40
  41. wilkinru

    wilkinru Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    995
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Watching the 'classic matches' from Tennis channel this week I saw a match in 1975 and a match in 1987.

    What a difference! 1975 looks nothing like now - they rarely hit a top spin backhand.

    1987 looked much like the current game, just considerably slower. You could see the beginnings of a kick serve even, something that 1975 had not dreamed about.

    I would say those years were the biggest years of change for tennis. Today's game is a SUPER spinny and fast version of 1987. Becker I believe was in the 87 match.

    McE may not understand today's game really. One could argue that the change from slice to topspin backhand was the one big game changer. A topspin backhand can be placed higher and MUCH faster/deeper in the court. Returning a higher topspin to the backhand at net is one of the hardest shots in tennis.
    A slice backhand of course is kept low - but straight and predictable - easy put away for the serve volley player.
     
    #41
  42. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    8,799

    McEnroe is very familiar playing against guys that had big Topspin like Bjorn Borg, Mats Wilander, Vilas, and I could go on..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmfKbggEt5s&feature=related
     
    #42
  43. DNShade

    DNShade Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,172
    Location:
    Hollywood baby...
    Not to mention that Mac plays and beats some of todays current players both in doubles and in singles...

    J Mac knows todays game better than any person posting out here by a mile. End of story.

    And to the OP - MarcRosset1992 - know what you are talking about before you post something like this. Mac's thoughts on how to attack some of todays players is dead on - and mark my and his words - someone will do it and there will be a new shift in style of play. It's how the game evolves.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
    #43
  44. netman

    netman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,616
    For anyone on this board (other than a former Open Tour Pro) to even begin to say they know more about professional tennis, then or now, than John McEnroe, instantly sets their credibility level to 0.
     
    #44
  45. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    8,799
    You are really talking out of your hat. McEnroe has 7-6 winning record against Wilander.
    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=M047&oId=W023
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
    #45
  46. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,562
     
    #46
  47. DNShade

    DNShade Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,172
    Location:
    Hollywood baby...
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
    #47
  48. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    The h2h is in Wilander's favor after 84, and they did not play that much against each other as McE would routinely get spanked before reaching the stages of tournaments where he would face Wilander.

    Also, Wilander won slams after 84 whereas McE became an entertaining distraction for the time up to the first weekend.
     
    #48
  49. devila

    devila Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,749
    Mc says Lendl had no charisma. Look who's talking. A brat who insulted Arthur Ashe with his BS shameless antics...and now hugs Federer like he's his pitiful crying wife.
     
    #49
  50. MarcRosset1992

    MarcRosset1992 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Where do you get that from?:? It is complete non-sense. The guy is involved in the Vagra tour, where over half the competitors (and the whole audience) carries a pacemaker or a catheter.

    There obviously will be evolutions in tennis tactics (nobody needs to mark your precious words to know that), and this is why this sport is so fascinating to watch and play.
     
    #50

Share This Page