McEnroe beat Philippoussis???!!!

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by ivo#1fan, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. ivo#1fan

    ivo#1fan Rookie

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    Is this correct? Apparently Philippoussis has been training seriously for several months for another ATP tour comeback. Being 30 he qualified to do the Outback seniors tour, so he played his first event this weekend. According to my local paper he lost to Wayne Ferreira in the semis and then lost 6-4, 6-4 to McEnroe in the 3rd place match. That's pathetic. McEnroe must be 50 or so. There is no way Phillipousis is going to ever be competitive on the ATP tour.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
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  2. jmsx521

    jmsx521 Hall of Fame

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    According to some posters here, wasn't McEnroe playing his best tennis now?
     
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  3. FedForGOAT

    FedForGOAT Professional

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    Mac is 48. Its funny that he beat 30 year old philippoussis because just a little while ago i read about him complaining that 30 yr olds are allowed to participate in some senior tours. Bet he isnt complaining now...
     
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  4. daddy.dirtsurfer

    daddy.dirtsurfer Rookie

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    Scud is talentless obviously.
     
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  5. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Nah, the Flipper's not talentless. Just unfit. ANd definitely NOT match tough.

    I read a story about him back when he'd just finished taping that reality show: Evidently he'd been rehabbing, training and practicing hard with Gavin Rossdale. Says it all, doesn't it?

    BTW, I talked to an old buddy who's now a teaching pro in Texas. He was there over the weekend. Said that Flip managed to beat Korda. Finished 2nd in his group (RR) to Ferreira (who is playing great). Had a nice comeback against Todd Martin, but really just had no answers for Mac, who rushed him.

    So is this a reflection on how weak the Flipper is, or how amazing John still is?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
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  6. Fee

    Fee Legend

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    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
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  7. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    Since when is age such a determining factor in tennis? I beat a guy last week, supposedly at my ntrp level, who is 22yrs younger than me. Agassi beat guys young enough to be his sons in the last couple of years he was on tour. McEnroe beating Phil. is not a shock especially considering how the Australian has always been mentally weak and nearly immobile.
     
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  8. kingdaddy41788

    kingdaddy41788 Hall of Fame

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    Well, 35 and 18 is different than 48 and 30, wouldn't you agree?
     
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  9. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    For sure - 35 and 18 are both within the spectrum of major ATP success, 48 isn't.

    That said, I hope Flip makes it back, I like him as a player, and I think it's a shame when injuries limit someone so much.
     
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  10. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    Not really. You can be physically superior at 50 than someone at 20 though it is rare I admit. The point is, there is no absolute rule.
     
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  11. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    McEnroe is a twig compared to Philippoussis, so that just goes to show how talented he is and what a waste of talent Philippoussis is.
     
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  12. DNShade

    DNShade Professional

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    That's pretty sweet. John really is that good. When he is on - and his serve is on and net game is working (of course those days are more sporadic that they were in 1984) - he is a tough player no matter who you are - even at 48. Pretty damn cool.
     
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  13. justineheninhoogenbandfan

    justineheninhoogenbandfan Banned

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    I wouldnt be surprised if Philipoussis was just playing the Seniors tour some to see if he "can" realisticaly return to the ATP tour. If he is unable to beat 50 year old men I doubt you will see him back on the main tour.
     
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  14. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Mac won an ATP doubles event last year, & has wins over Courier & Martin on the senior tour. are those 2 that much older/weaker than Flipper? Would there be any shame if he lost to those 2 instead of Mac? Heck, Martin was still on tour in '04.

    This was how Mark fared(& remember all these matches were played on consecutive days, that's a lot to ask for someone who hasn't played in so long)

    Mark Philippoussis def. Petr Korda 4-6, 6-4, 10-2(TB)

    Wayne Ferreira def. Mark Philippoussis 7-6(4), 6-4

    Mark Philippoussis def. Todd Martin 1-6, 6-4, 10-7(TB) (Martin has only lost to Sampras this year, so Mark must have played pretty well)

    3rd Place Match - John McEnroe def. Mark Philippoussis 6-4, 6-4

    Having close matches with those first 3 players was sort of the norm when Mark was on tour. They are all from the same 'era,' so why are these results surprising? Give credit to Mac.

    That he can still compete with any of them is amazing, which Martin & Courier constantly say. And they say that they've never played against anyone like him, he's so unorthodox, takes the ball so early & flat & puts so much pressure on you. I'm sure it threw Mark off as well.

    TTC is showing Martin-Philippoussis on Nov 6 & Mac-Philippoussis on Nov 9.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2007
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  15. Dimonator133

    Dimonator133 Banned

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    #15
  16. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    Ferreira, Martin, and Korda dont play on the ATP tour anymore though, and their goal isnt to make a comeback to the ATP tour like Mark says he wants to. It is doubtful any of them would be good enough for the ATP tour at this point. Martin went 11-16 in 2005, his final year on tour, and was ranked #96, he is at an age he would likely only get worse, so it is unlikely he could be on tour right now even if he wanted to be. Korda went 6-13 all the way back in 1999, his final year on tour (except for 1 challenger match in 2000). Ferreira went 12-15 in 2005, his final year on tour, and was ranked #107 after his final ATP event (that was not Davis Cup). Like Martin he was at the point he was getting alot worse, so it is doubtful he would be good enough to be on tour today. So if Mark were serious about returning to the tour he has to be clearly better then them, not in the same area. If he is only about equal to those guys he shouldnt try and come back to the ATP tour.

    He may be the same generation in a way, but he is still alot younger, he is at an age you could atleast reasonably think about continuing on tour, while they are not.
     
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  17. johnny ballgame

    johnny ballgame Professional

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    Doesn't really shock me. I stumbled across Mac playing Mardy Fish in a World Team Tennis singles match a couple years ago when Mardy was coming back from injury. Mac was holding serve quite easily.

    I still haven't learned the WTT scoring format... don't recall who "won."
     
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  18. TheShaun

    TheShaun Hall of Fame

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    i heard from an insider that the scud was have visions of 40+ year old women hitting tennis balls at him instead of a 48 year old man on the other side of the net. with his mind playing tricks on him, there was no way he could win...
     
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  19. simi

    simi Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the heads-up. Todd was one of my favorite players when he was on the tour, and Mac is an inspiration for us 50-something players. He seems t get better and better.
     
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  20. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    I think Mcenroe lost to Pat Cash earlier on in that tournament, so he can't be that spectacular. Philliphousis sometimes plays inconsistently and hits loopy shots from a bit too far behind the baseline, so I can imagine Mcenroe taking advantage of that. But still a bit surprising to see Mcenroe win. Someone posted parts one of the Rios v Mcenroe matches on the senior tour. Mac served well and looked very good during short points with excellent placement and volleys but Rios was easily in control of points when there were any baseline rallys. Rios ran old Mac around and made him look really silly.
     
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  21. ivo#1fan

    ivo#1fan Rookie

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    Thanks, good description of what it takes to beat Mac and why Philippoussis doesn't match up well. I still think it's totally pathetic for Philippoussis to lose to Mac. At this point he clearly belongs on the surf board, not the tennis court.
     
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  22. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    Mac beat Mark? ok! but you didnt mention if it was a insult contest...

    ho, sorry..

    you did mention it was a tennis match... My mistake.
     
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  23. anointedone

    anointedone Banned

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    Exactly. Phillipousis is not an ATP pro calibre player any longer. If he wants to keep playing tennis he should stay on the Seniors tour, and not return to embarass himself on the ATP tour.
     
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  24. Raistlin

    Raistlin Rookie

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    Biologically impossible.
    But yea I hope Flipper comes back on tour
     
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  25. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    Hey Mcenroe beat Andy Murray, yes Andy Murray 2 years ago in an 8 game pro set in England.
     
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  26. s_andrean

    s_andrean Rookie

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    I remember that, Mac won 6-1. Murray hadn't really made an impact on the game back then, and was only like 400 in the world (correct me if i'm wrong).

    Anyway, yea, I do miss the scud of old.
     
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  27. J-man

    J-man Hall of Fame

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    Yes they should they'd make even better ratings:roll:

    Its a shame that it came like this. I think it shows that he is not match tough, still rusty, and not enough to compete at the ATP tour as of right now.
     
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  28. johnkidd

    johnkidd Semi-Pro

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    I think for one set Mac can hold his own with anyone. The problem is best 2 of 3.

    FWIW-I just finished watching a replay of the Martin/Sampras match from Palisades. Anyone else think Pete might be using these matches and the Federer exo's to gauge his play and ask for a WC at Wimbledon next year?
     
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  29. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    no, if he beats fed that's enough, if he loses he knows there's no point entering wimbledon.

    bo5 for 2 weeks is just too much.
     
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  30. Inner Game

    Inner Game Semi-Pro

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    Flipper has never been fit!

    That's been Flippers problem since he started on the tour...FITNESS or lack of it. As we all know its a mental thing, Flippers got talent but not the desire to keep himself in world class shape....Now if he was playing on the womans tour it wouldn't matter!
     
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  31. Fee

    Fee Legend

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    No, absolutely not.
     
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  32. Tempest344

    Tempest344 Professional

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    Mark Philippoussis....one of the most talented tennis players
    If it wasn't for Injuries and his lack of a brain he would've gone Far
     
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  33. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Just a reminder. Also showing Ferreira-Korda, Mac-Courier, & Courier-Ferreira.
     
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  34. lambielspins

    lambielspins Banned

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    or his lack of mobility, or his lack of athleticsm, or his lack of any consistency on his groundstrokes, or his complete lack of return skills, or his lack of true volleying skills at a time more guys volleyed (although better then many of the guys today but it isnt part of the game anymore like it was in the 90s still anyway), or his lack of true competitive heart. Sorry there is only so far a serve and size alone will take you. His overall "game" makes Roddick look like a wonderfully complete player by comparision.
     
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  35. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    I thought he was working out with Andre Agassi's trainer. Or am I confusing him with some other player?
     
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  36. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Keep in mind that McEnroe's game never relied heavily on power or raw speed. He's a touch player with great hands and a genius tennis mind. That really doesn't go away. I saw McEnroe beat Agassi in an exo while Agassi was still on tour.
     
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  37. Mike Bulgakov

    Mike Bulgakov Semi-Pro

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    Philippoussis has chronic problems with his knees; they are definitely old enough for the senior tour. I'd like to see him have success again on the ATP, but I really doubt he can move well enough to compete anymore.
     
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  38. lambielspins

    lambielspins Banned

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    He isnt dominant on the Senior Tour right now. He is just one of the guys who has a chance to win. If he isnt even dominant on the Senior Tour he isnt going to have any success on the ATP Tour.
     
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  39. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Just saw Martin vs Philippoussis last night, it seemed like just a practice session for Mark, he was hitting some very strange shots for him(drop shots, slices, etc)

    Can still serve huge though. And Martin still has a great return. I wouldn't read too much into the results, these were Mark's first competitive matches in public in over a year. He did say he was tired afterwards, since he was playing a match for 3 straight days for the first time in a while. When he played Mac it was his 4th straight day of play, so I imagine he was even more tired. And Mac takes the ball very early, so being tired against him can really put you at a disadvantage.

    The level of shotmaking for some of these players really isn't that different from the regular tour, they just can't move the same way due to age, this has nothing to do with actual ability. Martin would be at least top 50 right now if he still had 25 year old legs as would Ferreira(who still moves great actually)

    I imagine if we saw all the practice sets top players play televised, they'd look like garbage sometimes as well. I heard Sampras lost to pretty much everyone on tour in practice sets when he was #1. That's sort of what these were for Mark, just practice matches. I doubt he really cared about not picking up the 40,000 check for winning this senior event.
     
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  40. I doubt we'll see anyone, including Sampras or Federer, playing for guts and glory into their 50's like Mac. He may be the most innately talented tennis player ever, but he also has that extra something to make him the best: a gaping hole in his soul that craves filling by the affirmation of success, attention, and adoration. Look at Borg, Becker, and others. They could be playing some great seniors tennis. But do they care? Does their tennis still define them? No. They're content with all that they achieved and have moved. (Okay, yes, Borg is playing Srs, but not intensely it doesn't seem.)

    This has been psychoanalytic moment with Gugafan. Tune in tomorrow.
     
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  41. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

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    well-said. Tired of people saying he was injured and that is the reason he did not win more (reach his potential). The guy had one thing...a serve. He was not really good at anything else. While I think Roddick is a bit of a bum, he is heads above Scud when it comes to desire.
     
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  42. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

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    You're not kidding. While I am a Mac fan, he may have the greatest EGO in sports history (right up there with Michael Jordan and Gordie Howe). But is serves him well in tennis, he can still play.
     
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  43. Harry_Wild

    Harry_Wild Professional

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    Don't you mean the WTA tour? He is actually going to compete again in the ATP satellite tour events too. What is currently ranking 661? Philippoussis on the shame of it all! His service has gone down hill and is clocked at only 129mph. Now a days half the players on the top 50; have serves that are above that mark.

    He should stick with the Senior Tour or switch to the WTA tour! Love to see him play with competitive players like John McEnroe or Serena Williams!
     
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  44. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I watched that match and it appeared McEnroe was simply the better player. He definitely returned better than Flip and was more agressive as well. I don't think it's such a stretch for McEnroe to beat Flip. I do think it's a waste, when I went to the Masters in Houston in 2004, Flip was the #9 player in the world. He was there as an alternate in case someone got hurt or pulled out. He's one of those players, like the Williams sisters, who it is constantly reported is rededicating himself to the game. Anyone else remember when he moved from South Beach to northern San Diego to "rededicate" himself?
     
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  45. Sean Dugan

    Sean Dugan Rookie

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    Guys, the Champions Tour is the professional wrestiling of pro tennis; the outcomes are scripted.

    I think if they played a real match, MP would kill Mac (if MP played at all seriously, was in decent shape, etc. )

    How would Mac ever break MP's serve if he is on his game?
     
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  46. JohnnyF

    JohnnyF New User

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    Thats silly. The Champions tour results are NOT scripted. Come on.
     
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  47. johnkidd

    johnkidd Semi-Pro

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    I like how they scripted all the drop shots and angles that Mac hit. They must be using CG technology.
    As for how Mac could return serve? He was a very underrated returner. He also has great hands and a short stoke which is also a great combo when returning. Lendl had as big of game as anyone today and Mac returned his serve. I would have been scary what Ivan would have done with today's rackets and string.

    A bit of topic but when you look at Lendl he was one of the first guys usuing a none wood racket, and he was alter his setups based on conditions. I remember hearing that he would use a slightly larger version of the adidas racket at Wimbledon to help with his volleys. Note to Rafa-Ivan got to Wimdledon Finals in the era with some of the greatest grass court players around and actually served and volleyed himself.
     
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  48. DNShade

    DNShade Professional

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    Wow. What a complete idiot.
     
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