men tennis coach's salary in D1 and D2

[Deleted member 23235]

I thought Cal tech was the best school in the country for coders?

by "top" i meant, upper tier...
so cmu is in the same bucket as caltech, columbia, mit, etc..
https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-by-type/bachelors/engineering-schools - lol, never heard of harvey mudd... maybe because they don't have a good tennis or football program

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I am speaking generally, as all athletic budgets are not built the same and are dependent on the type of school (public/private) and what the requirements are from a sports participation perspective. There is usually a portion that comes from tuition, money generated by merchandise revenues, money from the state especially if its a public institution (so taxes), budgets from endowments, donations/philanthropy, ticket sales for games that charge money, money from advertising, conference revenues from tournaments, for football bowl games, and TV packages. Of course this will vary from the demand of the school by supporters, and the one component that seems to make a big difference is the philanthropy portion because this is just "bonus" money and cannot always be planned for in the budget process. Some schools have to raise tuition to meet demands which is why you hear about this on occasion, or the state needs to raise taxes.

Where does the money go? Administration management (Directors, managers, admins, legal fees), coaches salaries, facility upkeep, new facility builds, Facility event management, team uniforms, team amenities (lockers, study areas, dorms), team travel (travel costs, travel equipment-buses, planes), trainers and medical, supplies, advertising (the fancy commercials you see on ESPN during games), money back into the conference memberships, and I can't leave out athletic scholarships....Probably other stuff, but thats a rough outlook.

Whats the payoff? Great sports programs are a way to generate philanthropy and notoriety to schools. Also help with engagement of students and provide a great atmosphere of support. Are they necessary? Not for every school, but I think most American students would insist on attending a school with opportunities to belong socially, and support different organizations. Traditionally for most this comes in the form of athletic opportunities and support, but I personally think this is changing or shifting. This is something maybe parents care about, but todays generation is caring more about financial implications, academic reputation, Geography and school amenities, which is why you are seeing so many empty seats at athletic events except at big Power 5 schools that fill seats with benefactors.

yup, i summarize all that as "winning sports programs == marketing" to attract tuition paying clients.

 

[Nostradamus]

by "top" i meant, upper tier...
so cmu is in the same bucket as caltech, columbia, mit, etc..
https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-by-type/bachelors/engineering-schools - lol, never heard of harvey mudd... maybe because they don't have a good tennis or football program

MIT beat out Cal Tech ?? something is wrong with that picture. and what's up with Naval academy being so high ?? it is military school,,how good can they be ? their job is to go to war. and you get shot at when you go to war

 

[borna coric]

the correct answer is: It depends on who you ask.

to some, MIT is the best school for coders. For others, it can be Stanford, Cal Tech, Carnegie Mellon or Cornell. I am sure there are many schools out there that are just as good as those schools mentioned above for coders.

It is like asking to choose the best tennis players between Federer, Nadal or Djoker. Federer has the most GS but losing records against Nadal and Djoker. Nadal has the 2nd most GS but he has winning records against Federer but losing record against Djoker. Djoker has less GS than Federer and Nadal but the Djoker owns the H2H against Federer, Nadal and Murray.

 

[borna coric]

MIT beat out Cal Tech ?? something is wrong with that picture. and what's up with Naval academy being so high ?? it is military school,,how good can they be ? their job is to go to war. and you get shot at when you go to war

The Naval academy is right up there with Stanford and MIT. The Naval academy offers engineering disciplines that no other schools, at least that I know of, can offer such as nuclear submarine engineering.

 

[Nostradamus]

The Naval academy is right up there with Stanford and MIT. The Naval academy offers engineering disciplines that no other schools, at least that I know of, can offer such as nuclear submarine engineering.

I know. It is still military... they tend not so smart

 

[borna coric]

I know. It is still military... they tend not so smart

Wow. That is really an arrogance and/or ignorant statement to make. My older brother is working on the hill for a senator and every year, there are many request from applicants for senator's recommendation to the Naval academy and many of them are very smart and athletic to be accepted into Ivy leagues or Stanford but they choose to attend Naval academy. The talent pool at the Naval Academy is just as good as Ivy leagues and/or Stanford.

I'll be on cloud 9 if my children get accepted the Naval academy. Free tuition (well, 5 years commitment after graduation) at a beautiful campus in Annanpolis, MD.

 

[Bluefan75]

Good discussion...A few responses:



Its an arms race, and many schools can't keep up just ask the MAC conference. But goes deeper then athletics it happens in general with endowments and misguided approaches to philanthropy. Malcolm Gladwell has an awesome series of podcasts on this if you really want to take a deeper dive. Essentially, the schools that are rich just keeping getting donations and money, and put it towards frivolous things while the schools that could really use money are having to penny pinch. Stanford has enough endowment money to not charge a tuition to any student for the next 30 years, yet thy keep getting donations, and from people who have nothing to do with Stanford but just want the publicity. I bet UC Santa Cruz would love to have some donations like that, and what would be the impact to students there? Think about it.



I don't fault schools for trying to have great facilities to attract recruits, but many AD's come from revenue sport backgrounds and put all their time and effort into those sports rather then looking big picture. Butch Jones example is just stupid, why I used it. But it shows the mentality of many of these guys. And schools like Texas and Ohio State that get tons and tons of money donated by benefactors and corporations who want to see Football Championships so they can afford to spend 2 million dollars to reside the football practice field or have videos playing highlights in kids lockers in their practice facility. Its when the conferences start mandating amenities that the schools have to get frugal with their other sports to do it. Its a myth that football makes money, it basically breaks even except for some of the schools that really have a following.



I played tennis all through Jr's and in D-I. Have had really inspiring and great coaches, and coaches that were clueless. Thats just life, and having been in the working world now 25 years its the same thing. I personally believe that a coach is the same as a good teacher or good manager, and they are fortunate to have an immediate impact on the life of students, one that can last a lifetime and change the course of what a student does or becomes. Countless stories of coaches who have inspired people to greatness and to achieve things beyond their capacities. They make movies about this. Your nephews clearly had a bad coach, but I wouldn't judge the industry on that communicated experience. Coaches have one job, and its to lead the team. Defining leadership takes many forms, but the baseball coaches you refer to I would imagine reap what they sow



100,000 showing up is a myth. Sure, Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan achieve those sort of numbers, but look at any conference outside of the power 5. I agree with you on the football coaches, way overpaid, over supported, and the assistant coaches are now commanding more. Certainly if someone has proven themselves they should be paid or courted, but schools are so desperate for a "winner" they have an arms race of coaching going on. People are getting wise to this and students are starting not to show up. People are tired of the salaries, and the non-sense associated with the programs. As stadiums empty the salaries will too...

This is an interesting set of articles on the University of Buffalo that will help with the perspective on Football and its impact
https://www.buffalo.edu/ubnow/stories/2017/04/UB-sports-reduction.html (read the comments here....)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/728690-college-football-2011-18-quietest-fanbases-in-the-country



Ah, they go hand and hand. Would encourage you to dive deeper into this. Title IX has been around since the 70's, and just calls for equal sports. That happened...but its a combination of the demands of conferences, TV packages, sports channels, Betting agencies, boosters for high revenue sports, regulations for scholarships in mens sports (not part of title IX), and the strain football and basketball have on athletic programs from a budgetary perspective. I can go on and on about tennis in particular but I have done that in other threads.

Have a lot of thoughts on how they could do this, but money and marketing dictate the calls....

I acknowledge your passion, but nothing you have said here justifies a tennis coach being paid 6 figures at a school. Everything you say about football coaches applies x10 to a tennis coach. Tennis coaches are no better or worse at "developing young people" than any of the other coaches. Tennis squads have their issues just like the other sports. They make movies about serial killers as well, doesn't make it a reason to celebrate it.

So what is left? Not enough to say "pay them $250k," that is certain.

 

[Nostradamus]

Wow. That is really an arrogance and/or ignorant statement to make. My older brother is working on the hill for a senator and every year, there are many request from applicants for senator's recommendation to the Naval academy and many of them are very smart and athletic to be accepted into Ivy leagues or Stanford but they choose to attend Naval academy. The talent pool at the Naval Academy is just as good as Ivy leagues and/or Stanford.

I'll be on cloud 9 if my children get accepted the Naval academy. Free tuition (well, 5 years commitment after graduation) at a beautiful campus in Annanpolis, MD.

5 years ?? that is too many years to be in the military. what if there is a major war break out and you have to fight a battle. you get shot at. that is dangerous for your health

 

[borna coric]

5 years ?? that is too many years to be in the military. what if there is a major war break out and you have to fight a battle. you get shot at. that is dangerous for your health

There are different type of risk. If there is a major war break out, my kids will take their chance as a nuclear submarine engineer inside a submarine vs. being an infantry in the battlefield, especially when the submarine is a seawolf class that cost the US tax payers over $3B for each seawolf class submarine.

 

[Nostradamus]

There are different type of risk. If there is a major war break out, my kids will take their chance as a nuclear submarine engineer inside a submarine vs. being an infantry in the battlefield, especially when the submarine is a seawolf class that cost the US tax payers over $3B for each seawolf class submarine.

do they staff the submarine with 1/2 men 1/2 women in those instances ? just in case it is a long trip or there really is nuclear war ?

 

[Nacho]

I acknowledge your passion, but nothing you have said here justifies a tennis coach being paid 6 figures at a school. Everything you say about football coaches applies x10 to a tennis coach. Tennis coaches are no better or worse at "developing young people" than any of the other coaches. Tennis squads have their issues just like the other sports. They make movies about serial killers as well, doesn't make it a reason to celebrate it.

So what is left? Not enough to say "pay them $250k," that is certain.

I agree we have different outlook on the profession relative to sport in general. I see it as more functional then just administrative.

And I don't agree that somehow coaches in other sports are worth more or have more at stake because their sport is popular or generates a different cash flow. I never would suggest that a tennis coach be paid on the level of a football coach in the millions (in the case of Illinois Dancer makes 3% of what Lovie Smith makes, so your 10x reference is actually an under estimate). But I think the worth of a good tennis coach to a school that cares about tennis and wants a good coach is going to command 80-130k+. And the value of a good coach to any sport is worth it to the program and students. Furthermore, if a coach like Dancer, at a power-5 D-I school, even starts at a lower tier salary in 2006, such with the performance he has had since then, inflation, and other factors, I would think that Illinois might invest in him in the form of merit increases and other salary increases?He should be higher then where he is at now; so 130 is underpaid in my view.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I know. It is still military... they tend not so smart

lol, if anything it's more competitive, because you have to have the grades, SATs, and pass the physical reqs.
http://www.businessinsider.com/schools-more-selective-than-ivy-league-2016-12

unless you're comparing the brightest, of say MIT,... then maybe i'd agree (with "not quite as smart")

 

[Nacho]

do they staff the submarine with 1/2 men 1/2 women in those instances ? just in case it is a long trip or there really is nuclear war ?

This is not going to end well......sitting back and watching

 

[andfor]

This is not going to end well......sitting back and watching

I know. And it started with this genius remark.

I know. It is still military... they tend not so smart

Pretty sure I lost a few brain cells after reading the thread from here.

 

[Mrs.Weasley]

by "top" i meant, upper tier...
so cmu is in the same bucket as caltech, columbia, mit, etc..
https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-by-type/bachelors/engineering-schools - lol, never heard of harvey mudd... maybe because they don't have a good tennis or football program

Don't know about football, but Harvey Mudd has very good tennis programs - the women won the National Championship this year in D3, while the men advanced to the Elite 8.

 

[JW10S]

Don't know about football, but Harvey Mudd has very good tennis programs - the women won the National Championship this year in D3, while the men advanced to the Elite 8.

Claremont McKenna, Harvey Mudd and Scripps colleges combine their athletic teams and compete as 'CMS--Claremont, Mudd, Scripps'. And yes they have perennially good men's and women's D3 tennis teams. Football--not so much..,

 

[Bukowski]

What is a typical salary for a D1 men tennis coach of the ACC conference such as UNC, UVa, VA Tech, Clemson, WF, FSU (aka Free Shoe University as Steve Spurier called it)? I was at WF yesterday watching the men tennis NCAA final and had a conversation with someone in the stand about this. I was surprised that the salary of the men tennis coach is between 95k-110k. WTF!!!

I can't believe that the men tennis coach at an elite program is making less than a junior software developer :-(

Pshhh. In comparison to football and basketball coaches this isnt much, but thats because those are grossly over payed. IMO college sports should be non profit and all revenue generated should go towards growing the standard of that university so the entire student body benefits instead of few athletes of which even fewer even graduate. But what can i say.. Im a dreamer

 

[ClarkC]

Oh don't get me started on the whole athletics complex. I'm actually with the other poster, what on earth are athletics doing at schools? Just because you can get to a quarterback, grab 13 boards a night, serve 25 aces a match, does not mean you should have to also sit through a calculus class. A musical prodigy doesn't have to. Why athletes?

Let's look at this analogy. A tennis prodigy turns pro, like Sam Querrey, and does not have to sit through calculus class. Likewise, a true music prodigy goes to Julliard or a similar music conservatory or bypasses these for a professional music career. The music department at State U is not an option.

Better analogy: true tennis prodigies are like true music prodigies, while college tennis players are like college music majors who are near the top of the music department in ability and get the scholarship money more than lesser students.

Why do we have scholarships for college tennis players, who are very unlikely to rise to the top of the tennis world? Well, why do we have music scholarships for music students at State U who are very unlikely to become famous musicians, composers or conductors?

 

[andfor]

Let's look at this analogy. A tennis prodigy turns pro, like Sam Querrey, and does not have to sit through calculus class. Likewise, a true music prodigy goes to Julliard or a similar music conservatory or bypasses these for a professional music career. The music department at State U is not an option.

Better analogy: true tennis prodigies are like true music prodigies, while college tennis players are like college music majors who are near the top of the music department in ability and get the scholarship money more than lesser students.

Why do we have scholarships for college tennis players, who are very unlikely to rise to the top of the tennis world? Well, why do we have music scholarships for music students at State U who are very unlikely to become famous musicians, composers or conductors?

And there you have it. Well done.

 

[JW10S]

I'm actually with the other poster, what on earth are athletics doing at schools?

Oh please, what a naïve point of view. The idea that athletics have no place in college and universities is just wrong. I imagine most parents send their kids to school hoping they will come out well rounded and prepared for the real world. Just attending classes and going to the library will not accomplish that. Plus, athletic programs are a great way for schools to promote themselves. A school that is successful in sports on a national level brings a lot of attention. It has been proven that the school that wins the NCAA basketball championships sees a big upsurge in applications the next year. UCLA has won more NCAA national championships than any school in the nation and they use that fact to attract students. I recently met someone from the east coast who chose to attend UCLA in part because of their successful athletic program. Now this person is not an athlete themselves, but is looking forward to attending football games, basketball games, tennis matches, beach volleyball matches, etc. as part of their overall college 'experience'. For those who do participate in college athletics, even if they don't go on to the pros, learn discipline, learn how to manage their time, how to interact with others, and how to juggle different responsibilities, things they wouldn't learn otherwise. And even those players like Anderson, Isner, Johnson, etc., who left college without getting a degree, what they learned from the other aspects of college will, and do, help them in their professional tennis life. Just as the students who competed in college athletes and didn't go on to play in the pros but earned a degree and are working 9 to 5 will tell you what they garnered from playing college sports has helped them deal with the real world more than if they had just spent all that time in the library. Now all this doesn't even consider those students who would likely never be able to attend college were it not for athletics, something people seem to ignore. Athletics do belong in college, and you can argue all you want that coaches are over or under paid but either way they do play an important role not only to the student athletes they work directly with but to the school itself and even the students who are indirectly impacted. I know in my day to day life I use far more of what I learned from my college tennis coach and being a part of the tennis team than anything I got from my weird Philosophy or English Lit professors.

 

[Sardines]

Would that be before or after the embezzlement. I know IND is a Muslim country with sharia law and the President is a dictator who pretty much takes most of their oil money into his personal bank account.

I believe you're referring to Suharto who was ousted in 1998. So only 20 years ago. Indonesia actually has some of the most modern muslim laws in the country, including a female president in S. Megawati (who was also VP), while my (and I assume your) country has only ever had one female presidential candidate in its whole history.

As for coaching salaries, universities want both athletic and scholastic achievement accolades. NCAA championships bring that, along with endowments and donations. My coach made more than the tenured teaching professors, because he won a few championships. NCAA sells TV rights and the university gets merchandizing rights for sports, plus whatever endowments they get for sports.
Coaches had to manage not just the skill coaching, but also the monetary side of giving rides. Getting a sports ride isn't great! It's usually an annual renewal, so one injury that knocks you off the court for too long and you're out the next academic year! **** off the coach, you're out! It's real life real fast for 18 yr olds and up! That Stella Sampras is getting paid 40% less is sad, but if she gets the Bruins a women's NCAA championship, then she can then say to the board, hey give me equal pay! Unfortunately, keeping talent is also difficult. The really good ones can choose to turn pro before even finishing their degrees.

 

[Okes]

I believe scholarships are not year by year anymore. The athletes are protected for all 4 years.

 

[Okes]

I

I believe you're referring to Suharto who was ousted in 1998. So only 20 years ago. Indonesia actually has some of the most modern muslim laws in the country, including a female president in S. Megawati (who was also VP), while my (and I assume your) country has only ever had one female presidential candidate in its whole history.

As for coaching salaries, universities want both athletic and scholastic achievement accolades. NCAA championships bring that, along with endowments and donations. My coach made more than the tenured teaching professors, because he won a few championships. NCAA sells TV rights and the university gets merchandizing rights for sports, plus whatever endowments they get for sports.
Coaches had to manage not just the skill coaching, but also the monetary side of giving rides. Getting a sports ride isn't great! It's usually an annual renewal, so one injury that knocks you off the court for too long and you're out the next academic year! **** off the coach, you're out! It's real life real fast for 18 yr olds and up! That Stella Sampras is getting paid 40% less is sad, but if she gets the Bruins a women's NCAA championship, then she can then say to the board, hey give me equal pay! Unfortunately, keeping talent is also difficult. The really good ones can choose to turn pro before even finishing their degrees.

I believe scholarships are not year to year now. The athletes are protected for all 4 years.

 

[Sardines]

I believe scholarships are not year by year anymore. The athletes are protected for all 4 years.

That's great if true. NCAA rules don't even make universities pay for the medical bills for serious injuries occurring during training. Has that changed too?

 

[jcgatennismom]

I believe scholarships are not year by year anymore. The athletes are protected for all 4 years.

Only players from the 65 Power schools are protected by the 2015 NCAA multiyear scholarship rule that basically states that coaches cant cancel a 4 year scholarship for poor athletic performance. However, scholarships can still be cancelled for ineligibility for poor academics, serious misconduct, voluntarily quitting the team or violation of athletic department or university rule or policy. If a coach really wants to get rid of a player, he/she can probably find some obscure rule that an athlete violated (could be as simple as a policy about class attendance that is usually ignored) or make the player miserable enough that he/she will want to quit.

For a good explanation of this rule, check out this link from Informed Athlete, a site run by a former NCAA compliance officer. https://informedathlete.com/the-facts-about-guaranteed-multi-year-ncaa-di-scholarships/ Colleges outside the Power conference have the option to offer 4 year scholarships, but are not required to. The power 5 are required to honor 4 year scholarships but can also get around the rule by not giving athletic $ to a player his/her freshmen year. For athletic scholarship to be guaranteed, the player must be offered athletic $ for 1st year.

With official visits now allowed at the start of junior year and verbal offers coming earlier, it will be interesting to see if any verbal offers will be rescinded before signing of NLI (usually done by player not be coach) if player performance drops between junior and senior year. Coaches often offer the very top US athletes by Dec/Jan of their junior year while they can wait to spring/summer of senior year for international athletes who will start in January.