mental strength: Sampras or Federer?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by ksbh, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    That first link is from 2003. The guns and measuring system have changed since then. They were using physically different guns for stella/davis cup back then(where roddick set his records, clocked it off the strings), so im assuming he was referring to those guns, not the ones used at grand slams/other events. I think the other gun measured around the T on the servers side.

    I agree about the gun positioning. I have been clocked at upto 120 (im a baseliner though). I did hit a few i thought were much harder than the registerd 120 but showed up at like 105. Seems if you hit the serve directly at the gun it gives you a bit more.

    Agassi wasnt a typical pro athlete. He wasnt fit or strong until 1997. Go back and look at some video of him, very skinny legs/arm and no chest. Combine that with modern technology (look into what happened when someone accidently put poly into agassi's fram in rome, i think, he was mad, love it and never went back). Agassi was much stronger post 1997 then he was before that. I think he was on steroids but thats another issue.
     
  2. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    "as anyone who’s been hitting with different racquets over the years would attest that these new racquets do very little to speed up serves."

    This is inaccurate. Once i went to my ncode 95's (with poly) my serve got alot faster.
     
  3. Driver's Seat

    Driver's Seat Banned

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    Agassi was a smarter player as he aged but Agassi in 95 was still probably at the peak of his powers. He was having an all time great, best season in 95 overrall until Sampras put a stop to it at the USO.
     
  4. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    Agassi isnt a smart player, never was. He was an academy mule, he simply hits the target. He doesnt think, he reacts.

    Btw, nice post Nonp. That information is very hard to dig up. You wont hear anything from the atp because juicing their guns would discredit the sport.
     
  5. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    So according to GasquetGOAT, 8489 is now a Sampras fanatic? ROFL ... Cesc was right about you ... you're no GOAT, you're a clown GasquetCLOWN.

    8489- Remarkably objective posts, my friend. Welcome to my signature!
     
  6. NonP

    NonP Professional

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    Actually the guns used at the Slams haven’t changed much since the ’02 US Open. All the four Slams use the IBM radar gun, and they do measure the ball’s speed as it leaves the racquet:

    http://www-07.ibm.com/innovation/au/ausopen/solutions/radar.html
    http://www-03.ibm.com/innovation/grandslam/en/solutions/radar.html
    http://www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/about/infosheets/information_technology.html
    http://www.usopen.org/ibm/index.html?promo=footer

    And yeah, the Davis Cup did and still does use a different radar system called RacquetRadar. I’ll just quote from the June 2004 issue of TENNIS mag:

    This is the radar array I was talking about. The article goes on to say the Queen's Club tournament also uses a similar system, but that’s the only other event I can confirm that employs phased-array tech. (I’m guessing the company’s hype that their product is used at "a host of events" is just typical PR.) A certain Charles Bricker also names these two events only:

    http://www.tennisnews.com/exclusive.php?pID=29278

    He also says that the phased-array system reads about 8-10 mph above the IBM radar gun. I suppose the discrepancy is due in large part to the readings on serves out wide, but not entirely 'cause the TENNIS mag article also says this:

    (For the record the Wimbledon website says that IDS works with IBM to provide, among others, radar speed displays. I'm not sure which company is in charge of the actual radar technology.)

    Do I really need to recite the cliche about judging a book by its cover? And many players would dispute your claim about Agassi’s fitness and strength during his Image Period. When he burst onto the scene almost everyone marveled at how hard he could whack the ball and take it so darn early.

    Again, we should be wary of using our own experiences to draw conclusions about pros. These athletes are different animals. And how much is "alot"? Were you already serving up to 120 when you switched to nCode? It may well be your improved technique that boosted your mph, not your new racquet itself. Skilled players can serve with just about the same speed even with a wood racquet.

    Thanks. Small beef, though: I don't like the term "juicing" 'cause it somehow implies that there's something wrong with using this new technology when there's not. Of course this very term is bandied about pretty much the same way in the doping debate, but that's a different matter altogether.
     
  7. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    Excellent post. Very informative, thanks.

    Agassi had a big forehand, not much else, "a haircut and a forehand". At the end he had big everything, except a volley. 20 years on the pro tour and still cant volley? WTF :)

    120 is with a good breeze at my back and 100%, I dont do that all day. But i def notice a difference with the ncode, more elastic power i guess. Im gettin worse not better :)

    I used juicing for the crowd appeal. Bigger numbers are always better.
     
  8. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    ..Says the ClownTroll who created this stupid thread with his ****** logic just to bash Federer (which he failed miserably LOL). How retarded is for someone like you to even speak about "objective post"? LMAO.

    Federer haters just can't accept the fact Federer's achievements have surpassed all of their heroes. The truth hurts. Retarded trolls can keep trolling about Federer all you want but you're not gonna achieve anything except looking like retards.
     
  9. nCode2010

    nCode2010 Banned

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    Can we get back to the issue at hand? Sampras was never mentally that tough.
     
  10. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    You're a fanatic so it's futile discussing with you. You're a *******, so change your moniker.

     
  11. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    Chad ... you guys need to make up your mind. You change opinions faster than a chameleon changing colors!

    When someone pointed out a few months ago that Federer beat an old & aging Agassi in the U.S Open final, the Feddie fans rushed here to tell us how great Agassi was despite his age! And now he just had a great forehand! Which is it?

     
  12. NoobWannabe

    NoobWannabe Rookie

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    agassi dont belong here in this thread, he used drug, he lied, and he get paid a couple mils to come out....
     
  13. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    Was talking about second half agassi (after being allowed to fail drug tests :twisted: ). Your reading skills blow man :)
     
  14. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    Re: the drug test- LOL, this is why I say the ACP needs a quick overhaul before those bunch of wan*kers make this sport obsolete!

    As for my reading skills, thats what happens if you read all of GasquetClown's posts! ROFL!

     
  15. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

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    Why must you always protray Federer fans to be the same in every way? So one Federer fan disagrees in one aspect of one thing that another Federer fan does not agree on. So what? Do all Federer fans have to have a consistent view of Agassi?

    Anyway, I agree with lawrence: you make a thread asking a question but you refuse to listen to any answer. A tad strange, no?

    NAH, because you're not looking for answers. You've already got yours.
     
  16. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    Easy now, 5th ! Most of us haven't even seen each other! Nothing personal. All in good fun :)

    As regards the answers, I've already accepted several answers from the Federer fans and rejected some that I don't agree with. I honestly don't see what Larry's problem is.

     
  17. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    LOL, and you are a Federer hater so same to you its futile to discuss anything logical to YOU. Why can't you admit this to yourself? Don't live in denial hater!
     
  18. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    This is proof that you need to spend more time at school than on a forum. I've stated several times that I can't stand that Swiss man with a nose 'wide as a highway' and yet you tell me I'm in denial.

    And unlike you, I don't pretend to be a fan of another player. Gasquet. ROFL!

     
  19. NonP

    NonP Professional

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    No prob.

    Agassi actually used to hit it even earlier on the rise. Can't dispute the volley part. If you're interested there's been a good discussion of Agassi vs. Lendl in the Former Pro section.

    Gotcha.
     
  20. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Just thought I would look it up: Agassi H2H with Lendl.

    6-2 for Lendl with Ivan winning the first six, and Andre the last two meetings

    1993 New Haven CT, U.S.A. Hard Q Agassi, Andre 6-3, 6-4
    1992 ATP Masters Series Canada Toronto, Canada Hard F Agassi, Andre 3-6, 6-2, 6-0
    1989 US Open NY, U.S.A. Hard S Lendl, Ivan 7-6, 6-1, 3-6, 6-1
    1989 Montreal/Toronto Montreal, Canada Hard S Lendl, Ivan 6-2, 3-6, 6-4
    1989 Forest Hills NY, U.S.A. Clay S Lendl, Ivan 6-2, 6-3
    1988 Masters NY, U.S.A.Carpet RR Lendl, Ivan 1-6, 7-6, 6-3
    1988 US Open NY, U.S.A. Hard S Lendl, Ivan 4-6, 6-2, 6-3, 6-4
    1987 Stratton Mountain VT, U.S.A. Hard S Lendl, Ivan 6-2, 5-7, 6-3
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  21. Joseph L. Barrow

    Joseph L. Barrow Professional

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    While Sampras is perhaps the absolute king of mental strength, and I will, unsurprisingly, give him the edge, it is pretty absurd to call Federer "quite a choker." How many crucial tie-breaks or desperation points over the years has Federer shown nerves of steel on? Let us just say, "an awful lot more than the number he's choked," which are truthfully rather few and far between, and mostly against Nadal.
     
  22. dandelion_smiley

    dandelion_smiley Banned

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    Hell yea I wanna see Sampras face Nadal on current speed conditions. He was "mentally strong" against nooblets, not so much against top 5 players
     
  23. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    From the topic: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=360684

    Record Vs. Top 10.

    Sampras - 124/71 (63.59%) GS (14) *
     
  24. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    This thread was revived over a year later... it got pretty heated IIRC.. but that thread you posted there is great... Fed and Borg have the best records against the top 10... not surprising given their credentials.
     
  25. Talker

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    Record against the top 10 is a pretty good indicator.

    Some of these chokes aren't always chokes.

    At critical times in a match one player may try to put more on the ball or try something different to get an edge.
    Then losing the match looks like a choke but it was due to making bad decisions.
     
  26. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    IIRC, some of the posts in this thread were implying that making poor decisions such as those you described actually qualified for being chokes, instead of being rightly called 'human'. Federer, as you said, only really had this occur when he played against Federer, but for the Nadal fanatics it is enough to claim that Federer isn't the GOAT. unfair? yes, but that doesn't concern them.
     
  27. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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  28. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    agree 100%, though for different reasons -- i think his serve would be blunted under today's conditions, and he'd not be as feared as he was in the 90s. I think the slickness of the surfaces magnified the effectiveness of his serve, and some here indulge in ridiculous hyperbole about his serve.
     
  29. Setmatch45

    Setmatch45 Rookie

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    I would say they both have had some issues. I think Pete was great but Fed is the man!
     

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