Mercedes $$$ Tournament in Phoenix

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by 10isDad, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Well, assuming Deiton gets by today's opponent, he has a relatively easy round of 16 match, due to some walkovers/no-shows. That would put him into the quarter-finals against one of the following:

    Clint Letcher - former #1 for Arizona State about 6 years ago
    Jason Jung - former #2 for Michigan
    Andrei Pavel - former #13 on the ATP tour

    While common sense might say Pavel, he isn't necessarily in tournament condition, but keeping my fingers crossed.

    BTW - I can't say enough about Pavel. He is such a nice guy and so fair on court. Truly an ambassador for the sport.
     
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  2. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    .............................
     
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  3. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    The last two posts show why these things are not for top juniors with pro aspirations. Playing the Herr 16s-18s against hungry boys who are fully trained and engaged, under pressure.....or playing vs some guy that used to be a big deal in college 6 years ago but now is up all night with a new baby, and maybe gets to hit once a week.

    Come on BB, get back to real life and start playing the top 16s-18s!
     
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  4. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    One of the coolest guys in tennis. Not a lot of folks have ever heard of him...and he really acts that way.

    I've met him through a player I had coached yrs ago. Met him again yrs later in Europe at Roland Garros. HE acted like he actually remembered me. Totally humble, cool, engaging, funny. Remarkable backhand, too.

    I totally get TCF's point about playing the big jr events, but there is something special about being in the presence of a guy like Pavel...getting to hit with him, maybe play him in a match...have lunch with him and see him hang with his wife and kid(s). Of course, he's probably out of shape, ripe to lose to some hungry young players.

    Wonder if he still uses that sweet Fischer. Or maybe the boys at Pacific have him on the new cossies.

    ANyway, have a great time in Phoenix! Great time of year there for some tennis.
     
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  5. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Yeah, meeting Pavel would be neat. But Pavel at age 15-16 was playing top junior tournaments, not events like this one.

    Thats my consistent theme here. Hitting with Isner? Taylor Dent? In place of high level junior tournaments? Well that is not what those guys were doing at his age....they were playing high level juniors month after month.

    Can not skip the steps that led the pros to be pros by hanging, driving, hitting, singing, living, scuba diving, going into space with them. Tennis is not the flu, he ain't gonna catch greatness by having lunch with it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
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  6. JLyon

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    #56
  7. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Andrei hits with the Wilson BLX Blade. Not sure if he still is, but with his old blades, he was still getting them w/ custom molded grips and all weighted/balanced to his spec.
     
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  8. tacoben

    tacoben Semi-Pro

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    Hey TCF...I really like your commentary...you're like the Skip Bayless of this forum...anyway, just had to say that.:)
     
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  9. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Just wondering. The Colorado Open has qualifying that weeds out the non-top players but I didn't see any qualifying draw in this one. Thanks.
     
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  10. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Could you please define the word "competition and competitive" according to the Websters dictionary , then by that definition explain how this tournament and the players in it are different then a top junior tourny ?

    Please use the Webster definition when explaining , need to see you do this without insulting the tennis world.

    Yes the level of tennis here will differ a bit more but explain how competition is different oaccording to Webster .
     
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  11. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Actually, he's the asst. coach of the Arizona State Women's team. Nice generalization, though...
     
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  12. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    That's funny! I just had ESPN2 on over lunch and was watching Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith go at it - and yes, it does sound a lot like TCF and Number1coach (BB) going at it. :)
     
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  13. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I was using hyperbole. The point is that many of these guys are not immersed in tournament tennis like the 18s at the Herr would be.
     
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  14. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    If all tennis competition is the same, why shoot for the pros? Wouldn't dominating the local park league be just as good? He could find competitive guys at any local tennis club. So he plays a 3 star recruit from 5 years ago in the first round, followed by a middle aged tennis coach? And that makes more sense than playing the Herr?

    Pavel vs Montoya? DB vs some tennis coach? Seriously? That is a better way to spend time and resources than playing the Herr or Orange Bowl?

    Tell you what, name 5 players in the tournament who plan on shooting for the pros in the next 2-3 years? Hmmm, maybe he should be playing his peers who have similar goals?
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
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  15. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Remember why we look at experts like Lansythorp , Nicky bolliter, even Macci what they say works and you can see by their students ,, TCF and the Usta hold the same beliefs on how its done play your age group then go to college . He says he worked SB and now he is in colllege and you can look at the usta over the last 6 years they play their age groups and go to college.

    Just saying .
     
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  16. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    You say DB should go to college LoL I asked you to define a word and what did we get ?

    I will give you another shot at the test ,, define according to Websters "competition"

    This is open for all college grads to answer and help TCF out.
     
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  17. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    No, and you know that is not what I believe. If at any point your kid is showing freakish results than go a different path. If he crushed every USTA 16 than staying in the age group would be a waste. If he crushed every top 5 USTA 18, time to move on.

    When a kid has nice but not freakish results? Yes, college first is the proper pathway.
     
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  18. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    "com·pe·ti·tion/ˌkämpəˈtiSHən/
    Noun:

    The activity or condition of competing: "there is fierce competition between banks".
    An event or contest in which people compete."


    Okay, now your turn. You are saying all competition is the same? A mens open with a mishmash of players, middle age, kids, part timers....is just as important as the Orange Bowl?
     
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  19. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Ok using that thought name 3 kids in the USA that plan on going pro ? Show newspaper clippings or signed with agents ,,,not the ones thinking of it the ones comitted by contract , answer 0 ,, so why play any nationals then ?
     
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  20. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Now the level of players WILL differ but the competition will be the same by definition ,, I could ask which kid in the OB knows how to compete better then Pavel ? Answer none ? how many may play better now that he is older ? A few ,, how many at the OB knows what it take to make the ATP compared to Pavel answer again 0.
     
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  21. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    And that is why the Eddie Herr and Orange Bowl are international competitions. And top ITFs.

    I get it, the USTA is not the thing. But playing the Orange Bowl he is more likely to battle guys with pro hopes than in mens opens.
     
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  22. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    One possible match with a heading towards 40 year old former pro, in a men's open? So the grand plan was to enter this open, hope both guys get through, no injuries.....with the end goal of playing Pavel?

    And that is a better developmental plan than dominating the 18s, top ITFs, playing Herrs and Orange Bowls? Couldn't you just go visit Pavel, put some coin on the match to make it competitive, and let them play?
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
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  23. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    No this has to do with what your thinking but seeing that your crystal ball is off a little I will tell you ,,,, it has to do with the tourney next week same city , National 18's , go there compete in the same "conditions" that next week will hand him ,,the cold ,the thinner air, slight elevation, see what adjustments we need to make to help out to perform better.

    See there is what you call a gameplan and not all of them work the way you think they "have" too.

    As for Pavel I wouldn't count him out , I watched DB hit with J.Mcenroe and at 50 plus he would be a hell of a match ,, just because he is 40 he still "knows" how to play and no doubt still pocesses a strong ability to compete .
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
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  24. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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  25. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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  26. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Actually this is a $30,000 total purse, though some of the money is for squash.

    As for the caliber of players, Andrei Pavel, Nick Monroe, Roman Borvanov, Chris Wettengel, Tony Larson, Cyprian Pisarek, Bojan Temunovic, Brian Battistone, Jason Jung, Geoff Embry. Not what I would call club type players.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
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  27. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    The problem is these guys are playing the same tournament as DB so that means they are not competitive nor do they feel pressure , so can you name some real players you ha.comve been watching ?
     
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  28. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    In another tourney... Kudla beat Sock today in the WC tourney in Atlanta. I heard Sock cramped up down 5-4 in the 3rd and had to retire.
     
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  29. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Just teasing a little BB. So far he has played 'cupcakes' compared to the Herr. But if he gets in against some of those bigger names and does well, that will have been worth the entry fee no doubt.
     
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  30. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    My top junior plays a few Men's opens. I think they are great. Different competition. Less pressure so he can try different things. Plus he gets to see how he matches up against college players who enter. If they are close by they are worth it.
     
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  31. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I noticed you said less pressure so he can try things, which is what I say....less pressure on the kids than the old heads. BB says it is the opposite.
     
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  32. GRANITECHIEF

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    Im neutral on this one. Once the ball is in play, both guys want to win. The young kid with no pressure is facing the older guy with the experience. Do either of them want to win? Of course there is a psychological factor in play, but when they start to sweat, start grinding into the match, I say they play tennis.

    So the experienced player doesn't want to lose to the youngin, so is he just going to fold up and go away, or is he going to give it all he's got to avoid the def? Doubt it.

    Is the rising junior going to be mentally tough enough to have his power game get countered going to just say, "oh he's the experienced, higher ranked/rated player, so if I lose no big deal"? Doubt it.

    Both guys are going to try to win, so in the end, the better player wins that match.
     
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  33. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I think if its a young kid playing up in USTAs or playing a former college hot shot in a men's open, the pressure is clearly on the older player.
     
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  34. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Well you answered correctly in that you said "I think" and that's a great answer since you don't this player personally nor have you watched him in person.
     
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  35. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    I love when Fed is playing a wildcard player on center court at the US Open at night and how they talk about all the pressure Fed is dealing with playing the younger kid,, then I love how they say the wildcard player has no pressure with a full house of people and all the double faults he is committing are routine ,,,, nothing to do with nerves or pressure .

    This is TCF teachings how does it sound ?
     
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  36. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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  37. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    The challenge was to 'name' 3 ,,,not guys that are thinking about it,, it was a specific challenge and then you say you know 14 of them thinking about it but can't name them.LOL .

    Where did you go to school ?
     
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  38. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Apples and oranges. A young kid playing up at a USTA with no one watching has no pressure. A young pro playing his first US Open has 20 microphones in his face and looks up into a huge crowd....so he gets nervous.

    You are mixing very different dynamics. 4 different players in 4 different roles.

    Player 1....15 year old playing a USTA 18, just to work on strokes....hits away, no pressure, no nerves due to the huge spotlight on him.

    Player 2.....his 18 year old highly ranked opponent....huge pressure, does not want to lose to a kid.

    Player 3......Federer playing a new pro....some pressure, he does not want to lose to a young buck. Fed more equipped to deal with the pressure than the USTA 18 guy.

    Player 4.....the young pro.....not much pressure to win, but lots of nerves.

    4 totally different scenarios in regards to pressure and nerves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
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  39. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    BTW Nadal says in his book he looks to his box for comfort and encouragement ,,,,How Pathetic is he ?
     
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  40. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    If he notices the microphones and cameras and crowd then it would be proof you coached him .We don't train or play that way .

    We show up to compete not give a speech .
     
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  41. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    As promised, a few pics...
    [​IMG]

    Jeff Williams, former top 300 ATP
    [​IMG]

    Roman Borvanov, current ATP 244
    [​IMG]
     
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  42. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Yet you and I have developed the exact same number of top 5 ranked 18s, Herr winners, Orange Bowl winners, and top 100 pros.

    Oh wait, I did work with SB....but his dad deserves the credit for that.
     
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  43. 10isDad

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    Nick Monroe, #377
    [​IMG]

    Jason Jung, #2 at Michigan last year
    [​IMG]

    Tony Larson
    [​IMG]
     
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  44. 10isDad

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    Arjun Bal, h.s. senior
    [​IMG]

    Bojan Temunovic, #1376
    [​IMG]

    Arjun
    [​IMG]
     
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  45. 10isDad

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    Andrew Barnett
    [​IMG]

    Roman Borvanov
    [​IMG]

    Jason Jaruvang, h.s. senior
    [​IMG]
     
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  46. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Andrei Pavel
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Deiton Baughman
    [​IMG]
     
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  47. 10isDad

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    Mike Mackay, 35 year old (middle aged, according to TCF) teaching pro
    [​IMG]

    Deiton Baughman
    [​IMG]

    Alex Lawson
    [​IMG]
     
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  48. 10isDad

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    Lawson
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  49. GRANITECHIEF

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    Player 1.... just about to turn 16, according to his massage therapist, the next coming of Fedal. Playing up in usta 18's,gets ranked high enough to play super nats and get seeded in $$ open draws, because all the competition just rolls over from the pressure, oops I mean he wins enough matches to get ranked high enough to get seeded/gain direct entry.

    Is there really no pressure since massagist has every tt lurker ready to pounce and say "i told ya so" as soon as the kid loses (or is it looses, lol) a match. Also wonder if hypothetical kid is fine with loosing (hahahahaha) whether it be checkers, tag, or three legged race as long as he was "supposed" to loose.

    I'd guess there is plenty of pressure to win and that's not even including the artificial kind mistakenly manufactured by the massagist, which adds even more.

    Player 2... Does not want to lose to a kid, starts playing, starts sweating, gets competitive juices going, most of pressure now is from how the match is going. If he's the better player, and not a mental weeman, he'll win, unless he gets outplayed.

    OK, this should be fun. Over-under estimate: the % affect on the outcome of the match between player 1 and player 2.

    My guess is 10% mental, 90% tennis. 90%-better player wins regardless of whatever your pressure scenario is.












    What's your estimate
     
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  50. GRANITECHIEF

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    Nice photos 10sDad, thanks for sharing.
     

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