Mercedes $$$ Tournament in Phoenix

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by 10isDad, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    ^^^I would agree, TonLars.

    And, it was a pleasure watching you play, too. There were too many good matches today, so I didn't get to watch an entire match of yours, but you have some skills!
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  2. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    I neglected to mention the women's side of the tournament. Far fewer entrants, but some pretty good players there, too. The #1 seed was former WTA #35 Sesil Karatantcheva. She's impressive and, like Andrei Pavel, showed a lot of class. She played a young local junior today and treated her with the utmost respect.

    Also playing were USC's Amanda Fink (nationally ranked #5 in the ITA), local favorite Nicole Melichar (trains w/ Andrei Pavel and his business partner Nick Blackwood) and Arizona's Natalia Toporowski.
     
  3. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Very nice words by Tony. Hopefully BB notices the part where he talks about the importance of the "highest junior tournaments". Tony has confirmed what everyone says.... he is a great kid, works very hard, nice and tall, and hits very hard.

    It sounds great, he hits really big. The field had some ATP guys in it. You look at that and think wow....now lets take a step back and think again...

    He lost. To a former college player. At the age where Nadal, Fed, Djoker, and other top 100 players where winning huge events....he lost, in a men's open...in AZ...to a former college player....in straight sets.

    Not being mean, just being real. Only 75-80 guys on the planet make money in tennis after expenses. And everyone of them was busting out and winning big by 15-16.

    Despite this, we are advising a kid to bypass all college scholarship opportunities and aim for the pros. Despite the fact that all the top 75 guys were winning so much more at the same age.

    Again, take a step back and think about the reality. A kid approaching 16, tall, fully trained, great equipment, immersed in tennis for the past 10 years....lost in straight sets to a former college player. And we are supporting bypassing college for the pros and trying to be one of 75 guys on the planet who pays the bills playing tennis.

    As long as everyone is honest about what is being said here, fine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  4. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Everyone of them? Everyone of them? Everyone of them? At 15-16 was winning mens opens, futures, and challengers, Sam Querrey? Mardy Fish? These two didn't do ziltch at that age.

    TonyLarson thank you for examining with your own eyes and making a judgement on this player.
     
  5. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    None of these players will play Winter Nats.
     
  6. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    This was not a good result for DB.

    Though Jason Jung is a good player, my thought was that DB should of won or at the least gone 3 sets...

    Seems like he needs more tournament play.
     
  7. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    I like how the last sentence there,, you would like to read his mind on the topic,,,,,, then a class act like Tony Larson didn't say what you wanted to hear and you respond with some pathetic thought on reality and insult Larson's thoughts ,,

    TCF give your expert opinion a rest . Really feel sorry for your daughter ,,trust me DB is heading down a road few will travel .
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  8. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    I would agree with you he should have won in straits ,, jung played well great win for him hope the best for him as he is attempting the pro scene instead of looking forf a job with the degree he earned .
     
  9. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    The bottom line is TL agreed that it is best to SUPPLEMENT mens opens along with the highest junior tournaments. The highest junior tournament was replaced with a mens open in this case. Hope this is not a recurrent theme thats all.
     
  10. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    10isdad, nice photos BTW, only you neglected to mention what camera and lens, settings etc.. you used for the camera buffs out there. :)
     
  11. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Entry level Nikon D40 w/ a 55-200 4.0-5.6 kit lens. I struggled out there, as the most of the courts have shade due to the architecture of the place, the trees, etc. Plus, there was mild, intermittent cloud cover all weekend that would throw off white balance. I took about 750 shots in 2 days and was only satisfied w/ about 50 - not because of content, focus issues, etc. but more due to exposure issues. Shot as much as I could in shutter-priority mode at ISO 200 or 400. Several of the shots were at ISO 800, which is one reason I left them fairly small at 640x480 size.

    One of these days, I need to at least upgrade to a better, faster lens.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  12. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    not bad for an entry level D40 with standard kit:shock:. Just like you said you need lots of light to shot, with low light things get tricky and very hard. even with good light, for example, the 2nd shot with wittengel serving, racquet was blurry. With a camera like a canon 7D with 70-200 L lens will be nice for under $3000, then out of 750 shots you will have not 50 but 500 shots that are nice.:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  13. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Here you go again. It is not Madden 2012. Tall does not win, hit hard does not win. The best tennis player, be it grinder, hard hitter, 6'4" or 5'8" wins.

    He should not have won in straights because he is not as good a tennis player as Jung. And Jung did try some pro events, lost first round in each.
     
  14. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Perhaps, or simply more talent. Thats why you compete vs the best your age month after month. To find out what is missing, experience....or facing reality that some guys win big things, others look good but do not.
     
  15. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    No, most were playing top junior events and winning them.

    Lets see what Querrey did from 15-18.

    Reached QF at US Open juniors and Roland Garros juniors...
    won back-to-back junior hard court titles at USTA Spring Championships
    won the Easter Bowl...

    Mardy Fish...lets check out some things he did in his teens from 15-18....all while also playing varsity basketball.

    Quarterfinalist at the U.S. Open junior championships.
    - Finalist at the USTA National Boys' 18 Championships.
    - Won the boys' singles title at the ITF world junior event in Surrey, England.
    - Won the boys' singles title at the Thailand Open junior championships.
    - Won the boys' doubles title at the Japan Open junior championships with Joachim Johansson of Sweden.
    - became the youngest American to win an ITF futures event.
     
  16. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Jung is no push over! If Jung was to play the Herr this year he could have played with anyone in the tournament.The guy can play ball!I really dont think its a bad loss.He is 15 and I know Nadal and others were winning on the next level at 15 but not every pro was on that level at 15.Lets just see what happens?
     
  17. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I agree with you....Tony certainly did not say what I thought he would. He did advise high level junior tournaments at least.

    To be honest, I thought after seeing him lose to a former college player he would have been a little more cautious and advised that he keep everything on pace to have the college scholarship as a fall back if the results did not improve.

    Instead he seemed to be going with the hits big, seems into it, dad has energy and belief...go for it theme. I was wrong on that count no doubt. But the fact remains....no matter how many people meet him, like him, think he hits well, there have been no eye popping on the court results.

    Perhaps the bigger question for Tony would be if he would bet me $10000 right now put into escrow if the kid would ever break the top 75 money making level as a pro? He said "make it big". Its one thing to like a family and wish them the best, its quite another to put some coin on it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  18. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    The camera will shoot at 1/4000. Actually, the shots of Wettengel there were a mistake in the settings on my part. I neglected to change the settings. I had previously been shooting on such a shaded court that I was using the "Sports Mode" and forgot to change it. That particular photo was shot at 1/640 at F13. I realized it on the very next picture and adjusted the settings.


    ...regarding the Canon: I don't have an extra $3K laying around. I'd just as soon get the 85mm 1.2 and the 70-200 2.8 Nikon lenses if I did have the cash.

    We've certainly digressed from the thread topic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  19. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Ga.....no one is saying Jung is a bad player. Of course he is a solid player. But when your 15.5 year old prodigy loses to him in straight sets, then you look at who he lost to at the Zoo. Perhaps suggesting he keep college scholarships as an option is not hating, its just keeping a toe in reality?
     
  20. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    And the beat goes on....dodge ball, what a fun game.
     
  21. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Is that really the bigger question? That is the big-picture view?
    Is a bet involving an escrow account really realistic in your world, Coach?
    Would anyone other than the kid's father, coach and massage therapist do that?
    Who 'talks' like that? Do you really think this way?

    I come home from church and read this. You people are crazy. And not in the good way, LOL! This is really no different from the fanboyism we make fun of in the Rafa/Fed/Nole/Steffi/Seles threads. We all try to justify your own views, and sometimes that gets a little kooky. Maybe more than a little kooky.

    I must say, thanks, though. You know who you are, guys -- thank you for this thread. It inspires me to get off this silly website and go play catch with my wife & kids at the park and do a few fun drills on the courts with them on our way out to a meal with the grandparents. At least that's my big picture view for a Sunday.
     
  22. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Dude relax, of course no one is going to bet on it in reality. Its a silly message board and I am messing around. I never get why anyone takes anything seriously on these forums.

    Fine, I can quit posting anything remotely provocative. From now on I shall stick to "racquet up, drop, hit".
     
  23. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    so you would put $3000 worth of Nikon lens on a $400 nikon D40:confused:, if you had the cash

    yeah you are right we have certainly went off topic, do not want to get into which setup is better Nikon vs Canon.:oops:
     
  24. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Sent you an email via the forum. Hopefully it works.
     
  25. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Jung was incredibly quick from corner to corner , although DB should have played the middle of the court more to take away his strength "his speed" he ran him corner to corner then as 10isdad said tried to pull the trigger a bit early.

    Jung is a very solid player and at one point as a junior was as high as 50 ITF , he has matured a lot since I last watched him, but playing at no.2 at Michigan has done him well , I thought he did a great job adjusting to the situation on the court and overcoming DB ,

    My guess is if he can recover (physical) from the match against DB I believe he will win this tourney. Jung would at minimum would semi at OB or Eddie Hurr 18's ,, this guy is very solid player best to him.
     
  26. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Hey Slice please don't get offended at his words he is free to say or ask what he wants if anything pray for his daughter she is being raised by him.,,,

    I think the bigger question is when will he (TCF)see this kid in person and make a rational judgement based on observation of the evidence placed in front of him rather then hear-say ?,,, which most ignorant people do,,,, wonder why DB's dad frowns on education with guys like this that push it and then show great ignorance !
     
  27. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Hey 10isdad great photos , you do well with that camera for what it is , thanx again for shooting all the guys .

    Cya next week at the Winter Nats ,, just in case you didn't know it is this small tournament next week in your area you should look it up.
     
  28. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    I dont think there is a 15 year old in America Jung could not beat.
     
  29. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Okay....and not a one of those 15 year olds should not be keeping the college option open then.
     
  30. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    We have beaten this to death about 'seeing him'. I could come live with you guys and watch him every day and not have a clue about his pro hopes. Nor could any other human on the planet. You have to see him play a few high level tournaments vs the best.

    I told you, if he plays the Herr, I will come watch. If he plays any of the top 5 rank 18s I will come watch.
     
  31. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Again....makes no sense. Tennis is not a computer game...this guy should be that guy because he beat another guy. Jung would go to this round of this tournament.

    None of that is real. Real is playing tennis, month after month, dealing with upsets, younger guys who get hot that day, multiple net cords that cost a set, mental games, injuries, and on and on.

    Had Jung played the Herr perhaps he would have hurt his thumb in the first game, played on, his opponent a young guy who had a career day, had 4 net cords go against him...or any other 100000 variables in tennis. So Jung could have won the Herr or lost in the first round or lost along the way....no one knows, no one could know...because lots of things happen on a tennis court.

    You are too focused on size and hitting sessions and what happened in the 14s and he once took that guy to 3 sets who beat the top ranked kid 2 years ago. It is all nonsense that means nothing in regards to actual tennis tournaments.

    The reality is he beat 2 lower caliber players in the grand scheme of tennis, and lost in straight sets to a college player with no ATP points. That is what happened, that is all that matters.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  32. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    And 2 months ago he beat a guy in qualies of a futures who had 6 AtP points big deal .

    Had he played Pavel and won he was to old ,washup , over the hill ,, had he lost to Pavel he can't beat and old washup , over the hill player, This is how you reason every argument ,, I would encourage all you posters on here Pray for his daughter even if you don't believe in G-d
     
  33. PhilAnderson

    PhilAnderson New User

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    Why?
    Because if his daughter is not good enough to make it on the WTA he'll make sure she has a full ride at a college of her choice? End up with a fantastic education and make a contribution to the world in some form?
    Terrible parenting..... Someone better call child services on TCF and get his daughter the hell out of there before he does something crazy like give her Christmas presents (If they celebrate it).
     
  34. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    I notice that you write "G-d" it seems you are a strong believer, I pray that you find what you are looking for CC
     
  35. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Actually, Jason Jung played #1 for most of his career at Michigan. He was a top 3 blue chip recruit. We recruited him hard at Virginia.
     
  36. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    To be fair, why don't we limit it to what they did at 15. We have no idea what Deiton will do at 18.

    What did Querrey and Fish do before they turned 16? I honestly don't know.
     
  37. 10isDad

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    A cold, drizzly, overcast day in Phoenix today. Since this is a Junior thread, I should mention there were several juniors in the backdraw of singles and doubles (8-game pro-sets).

    Spent most of my time watching Jason Jung vs Roman Borvanov and Chris Wettengel vs Nick Monroe. Both matches are unfinished and will have to conclude tomorrow, due to rain.

    When I left, Monroe was up 6-3, 5-2, ad out. He had match points but played a couple very nervous points. In the other match there was some controversy. At 5-all, 30-all Borvanov hit a serve that Jung called out. Sure looked out, but Borvanov questioned the umpire and exploded a bit. Next point, Jung hits a screamer that was around 6-8" long. Borvanov rightly called it out, but the roving umpire (who wasn't even on the court, but standing approximately even with the net under an umbrella) overruled giving Jung the break. Horrible overrule, but it stands. Borvanov went ballistic and played an absolutely horrible next game to lose the first 7-5. When the rains came it was Jung serving 2-3 in the 2nd. Some pics to follow.
     
  38. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Today, the goal was to capture movement and action, not necessarily the ball in the frame...

    Jason Jung:
    [​IMG]

    Chris Wettengel:
    [​IMG]

    Roman Borvanov:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  39. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    ................................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  40. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Nick Monroe:
    [​IMG]

    Amanda Fink:
    [​IMG]

    Sesil Karatantcheva:
    [​IMG]
     
  41. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Jason Jung:
    [​IMG]

    Roman Borvanov:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  42. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Chris Wettengel:
    [​IMG]

    Jason Jung:
    [​IMG]

    Eric Chalmers
    [​IMG]
     
  43. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    How is Jung's service motion?? And how tall is he now?? I think I remember him having an awkward looking svc motion.
     
  44. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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    Nice shots 10isdad, the one of Roman is so cool - looks like he was photoshopped in there mid air. Your pics are making my new monitor look amazing. Thanks for the effort getting them posted.
     
  45. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the nice post about DB. I think a lot of us are pulling for him as he seems like a great kid who is going after his dream.
     
  46. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    I would put Jason at 5'11"...maybe 6' even. I wouldn't say his service motion is awkward. He actually had a ton of aces. Pretty accurate. I think I have a 'series' of shots (so-called since my camera only shoots 2.5 frames per second. I'll see if I can find it...
     
  47. 10isDad

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  48. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Oh yeah, I spoil her this time of year! Our family is into 2 things, tennis and small business. My girl has always liked to set up pretend stores and sell things.

    So as she matures we will support her tennis and also her entrepreneurial mindset. Being the best tennis player she can be, along with knowing the ins and outs of running a business should give her options. Maybe even some combination of tennis and business, who knows.

    But she will always play the best players her age or one age group up she can play, and international kids too as much as possible. If she is a top dog, great. If other kids pass her by, so be it. Tennis is the ultimate natural selection on a global scale. No use hoping and praying.....let them play and see where they end up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  49. Can't think of a name

    Can't think of a name Rookie

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    its been said before.. but cannot be said enough: great pics 10isDad! Thanks for sharing :)
     
  50. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    BB, tennis is about track record. You can not take one result here and there and mix and match how important they are.

    Had he played Pavel, so what? Maybe he kills Pavel that day, maybe its close. Maybe he plays Jung again and wins in straight sets. Who knows, it does not matter.

    The pros, the top juniors is all the same. Play month after month, deal with all the ups and downs and variables and someone comes out on top. Players get better, get worse.....over time players are selected out until 80 of them make money as pros.

    What is your boy's track record? You do not let anyone pin it down. He pops into a men's open and crushes some cupcakes, maybe he beats Jung, maybe not.....no one knows where Jung fits in the grand scheme of tennis...so the result is hard to define. Then he plays some USTAs and beats the 60th ranked 18....disappears for months and may play the Zoo, losing to a 20th ranked 18.

    I do not know how good he is, you do not know how good he is, he does not know how good he is...because the competitions are so scattered in the ability levels and station in life of the players. Zoo one time, a mid level USTA one time, a men's open the next.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011

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