[Merged] Wardlaw Directionals -- what a difference!

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by smoothtennis, Apr 13, 2008.

  1. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    may be i am not saying it in right way. All i am saying is i am against hitting crosscourt or DTL because a ball crossed (or didnt cross) an object.

    That to me is irrational (i by no means asking others to ignore it. just stating my opinion.) as it doesnt factor in one's own strength and opponents weakness.

    To me shot selection is based on 3 factors. What options are available, what i am comfortable doing and what gives opponent most trouble.

    I am pretty sure there is a reason why Federer/Djokovic attempted to violate these rules. Why didnt they just engage in the rallies?? They are so skilled that they can engage in cross court or DTL rallies all day long. In my opinion , that is the risk they had to take so that they can go offensive.

    Based on pure geometry of the court, there is a definite advantage in crosscourt rallies. take a look at the link below
    http://www.tennisserver.com/turbo/turbo_98_5.html
     
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  2. pr0n8r

    pr0n8r Rookie

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    The Wardlaw directionals work. I began applying them at the beginning of the year, and I finally won our local 4.0 singles league. I also went from always losing to my 4.5 hitting partner to trading wins with him, and always giving him trouble. When I first put Wardlaw into play against my hitting partner, it almost felt like cheating. I don't think there's a level in recreational or even college tennis that can't benefit from understanding the directionals. I used to think I had a good understanding of on-court strategy, but I was badly mistaken.
     
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  3. jb193

    jb193 Rookie

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    Going cross court doesn't have to be a neutral shot. I always go short cross court, deep cross court, mid right cross court and mid left cross court. It keeps the mind engaged and wears on your opponent if you are dictating the point. Going from the deep cross court to the shallow cross court shot is sometimes a difficult footwork adjustment and can produce significant errors. I find that hitting into the open court benefits a lot of my opponents, especially if my shot is easily within reach. They get to run thereby calming their mind a bit, and because of their momentum they easily find their spacing from themself and the ball.

    Of course, all of this has exceptions. If someone has a weak backhand, then all of the prior logic is out the door and focal point of attack is mainly one side of the court. But, anyway, just food for thought.........
     
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  4. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Exactly, if your/my cc was weak enuf to elicit a ripping dtl, then a weak dtl from me would have resulted in the same thing. More likely I would be UE'ing more on the DTL.

    I had the same experience as you, my oppo ripped one dtl on me, but on the others he UE'd (in trying to rip a DTL).


    So in a nutshell, one is still better off following wardlaw.

    And as i said in another thread, my opp caught on that i was going CC, so he was covering cc, and a couple times i foxed him with an easy DTL. Ordinarily I would have tried to go in for a perfect DTL and mess it.
     
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  5. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    It is not a beginner strategy. These Directionals are good for the 4.0 player and up who are learning to make better shot choices, who can sustain a rally and are learning when and how to move the ball around. How many crosscourt rallies do you see? It is a fundamental aspect of hitting the ball.

    Wardlaws are fundamental to shot selection. You build your game over it, you analyze your weapons which can at times help you defy it, and you build up your matchups around it.

    Are you going to follow the Directionals religiously? Absolutely not! However, when you do take on more risk, at least you will know the risk you are taking and if it doesn't work several times, you might want to stop trying it.

    Lol, again the Directionals are not for beginners. Beginners can't sustain a rally and the ball is moving so slowly that hitting against the grain, is not going to be devastating. When the ball speeds up, then it becomes more of an issue to hit against your natural shot.
     
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  6. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    That is fine. But to say it is a strategy for beginners is moronic. It tells me a lot about your knowledge in tennis and your game.

    Sure it does. The Directionals are about rally's and changing the direction of the ball. It plainly says that hitting against the grain increases your chances for error. It also shows when is the BEST time to change direction of the ball in case you are in a matchup you dont want to be.

    If your opponent is pounding your weakness and you try to change direction when it is not the best ball to do it on, that is when your abilities to offset the risk come in. However, if you do it haphazardly, like you indicate you do, that is not a smart way to play tennis.

    LOL, that is beginner level thinking.

    LOL, you defintely see the game through your own eyes. LOL!!
     
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  7. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    BB, I wasn't countering you. I was only sharing my personal experience of how it's helped me. I meant, i do not know how it is for pros and I am certainly not saying its only for beginners.

    I have less than a year of tennis under my belt, i can have pretty long rallies both fh and bh at a good pace, and keeping the ball deep. I have no idea of American ratings, so I consider myself to be a beginner (less than 1 year). Earier I may have randomly changd direction, or just hit the ball where my opp was not, which did not help. Applying this has helped.

    Sorry, if I have not understood something.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
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  8. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Pros are not thinking about Wardlaws. They are already at the level where they make good shot selection choices most of the time. It is obvious when you watch a pros match how they are using their shots.

    What people dont realize is the Directionals are a foundation to shot selection. Shot selection is not a beginner thing. I can buy intermediate and above, but very few beginners will benefit from the directionals.

    The keys to building your game plan are:

    1. Not hurting yourself: This falls into the category of consistency and making good shot choices. This also indicates one needs to know when is the BEST time to change direction if your opponent is challenging your weakness. This does not mean you need to always adhere to it because at times you might want to change direction with more risk.

    2. Knowing who you're playing: This means you need to understand what strengths and weaknesses they have. Are they impatient? What shots are their big shots? What shots are they more weak? This will help you determine how you match up and which matchups favor you and your opponent.

    3. Consolidating: You know what shots are more risky. You know that hitting corsscourt gives you an edge on consistency and helps reduce your errors. You also know when the most opportune time to change direction. Now you analyze which matchups will win you more points. Is it your weakness against his weakness? Or something else?

    4. Now, you build your points: You run plays to execute your strategy and findings. You think three balls out maybe more if you are that good.

    5. Court positioning: Court positioning is both knowing where you are in the court and where your opponent is in the court. It is also knowing where both of you should be in the court. Many times intermediate and advanced players will hit a shot, it doesn't quite turnout the way they wanted, and leave a ton of court open. Sometimes you want to take more risk because your opponent is well behind in recovery, etc...

    Hardly this is for beginners. Not that you said that, but beginners dont come close to thinking this way. The Directionals are foundational.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
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  9. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Point well taken. But...consider this. They are taking the high risk in this situation if I hit a solid ball. As far as I'm concerned, they can go for it, because they rarely make this shot off a strong shot cross-court.

    Also consider this - I understand they have that option. I also understand if I hit a shorter, or less aggressive shot there, the probability goes UP for their DTL reply success, to be anticipating, and recovering for the DTL shot.

    Realize too, I am not hitting paceless duck balls to my opponent on rallies. These are fairly heavy shots with a lot of spin and decent pace. I know when I hit a shot that they can change direction on.
     
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  10. smoothtennis

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    Yeah - they decided to take on more risk and make something happen, but they often botched these.

    Exactly - they take on more risk, but they KNOW they are doing this. They did engage in good CC rallies, until many times, they got a ball that had acceptable risk given a less penetrating shot by the Oppoenent - and these are the one's they tended to go on the offensive with and win.

    See here is the real point. We already established that CC rallies are less risky, and therefore, the higher the skill level, the less they have to engage in CC rallies - right? They can break the rules better than us lower level players. Then WHY----do the top pro's still engage in CC rallies a LOT? Because they understand and manage the risk and probabilities involved.

    The point is, Pro's do USE the directionals as a foundation to their understanding of shot selection. Wardlaw didn't really INVENT these. He termed them, and expounded on the principles behind them. They are just physics in action - an observation in probablity based on physics and geometry. You bet the pro's understand and apply this knowledge.

    PS. Fed/Novak did make quite a few more errors on straight up CC rallies than I suspect you would imagine in that match. I was surprised.
     
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  11. rocket

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    BB, when you have a mo', could you pls take a look at NickB's strokes? The kid's got potential & dedication. He might need your help.
     
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  12. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    BB, thanks fr clarifying. i am certainly no where close to even starting point on what you describe.
    My knowledge of Wardlaws directionals were based on a very simple page someone linked here.
    Some of those points did help me - or so I thought.

    Thanks again for taking time to detail "building a game plan". As I understand it now, WD's are not an end in themselves, they are the basis for much more advanced shot selection decision-making which is not beginner's stuff. Shall keep reading your post and trying to absorb/glean more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
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  13. MordredSJT

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    I'll throw my own two cents in here along the lines of what Bungalo Bill is saying, with my own perspective...

    Wardlaw's directionals are essentially the basic rules of grammar for tennis. If you don't know them at all, you may break them all the time...often with disastrous results. If you learn the rules and follow them strictly you can greatly improve the effectiveness of your self-expression. If you master the rules you can often break them at opportune times to great effect.

    Think of the best writers throughout history...they often don't follow grammatical conventions....but they damn sure know them and are aware of why and how they are breaking them. It is purposeful. It's the same with the best tennis players. They are aware of the directionals. It is most likely not in the strict codified way of Wardlaw, but in a natural instinctive idea about where the percentages are in shot selection.

    Long story short...learn the rules first. Once you have mastered them, then you can break them for effect.
     
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  14. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I don't see the point in even discussing what Federer can do. There are no Federer's here, I'm guessing.

    As a 3.5 who is pretty new to singles, Wardlaw's is a difficult thing to do. I mean, most of the time I'm thinking stroke mechanics, so it's hard to find space in my brain for using the directionals. I think they're going to be helpful later on, though.
     
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  15. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Exactly. When you learn directionals, matchups, and understand "calculated" risk, you will see a pros game in a whole new way.

    You are very correct in saying Wardlaws are simply foundational and not an end to themselves. There is a whole lot more to tennis strategy, tactics, point building, execution, and risk-taking.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
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  16. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Exactly, they are not for beginners. Beginners have other things to get through. :)
     
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  17. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Very good analogy or is that a metaphor? Never did take the time to find out. Anyway, you summed it up very well. :)

    The Wardlaw Directionals can be simplified like this (although this is very simplified):

    "Hit crosscourt, until a ball does not cross your body." So, the basis to your game should be the crosscourt ball. This is what you do, how you setup your matchups, how you evaluate your strengths and weaknesses, how you build your game, and how you understand what weakness your opponent is trying to exploit. This is also how you watch a pros game and what they are trying to do.

    The crosscourt ball is THEE ball! If a player can't or doesn't move the ball well (hitting crosscourt) then they really need to develop it.

    I know this is very simplified but it keeps it simple for those willing to grow in tennis tactics and strategy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
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  18. MordredSJT

    MordredSJT Rookie

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    Someone once asked Bjorn Borg about his strategic thinking while he played...his reply..."I mostly hit crosscourt." He refused to complicate and or clarify further.

    That's the first thing I teach people about playing patterns...you need a reason to not hit crosscourt (preferably a good one).
     
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  19. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Excellent!
     
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  20. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    For crosscourt shots, does anyone have any hard and fast rules, concepts, ideas, ect about which part of the net to aim the ball over?

    A lot of time I stand at the baseline making the shot, I can't see the other side's sidelines and baseline to control the ball. It's too far for vision. So, I just go for the feeling of power and general direction, which is unreliable.
     
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  21. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well in general you dont want to be hitting the lines if that is what you mean. Target practice is usually done with cones so you sort of "memorize" your spots and also develop those specialty shots (like taking pace off and hitting a sharper angle with more topspin) as you drill.

    But I dont know why you cant see the baseline or the sideline. That is confusing to me as to what you are getting at.
     
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  22. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Hi Bill,
    I did not mean to hit the lines, at least at this level :).

    I'm 5.8 tall but honestly I can't see the other side's lines comfortably when I rally from behind my baseline. Apparently, the guys I play with also could not see, hence we have alot of arguments about shot in or out.

    I suppose if you see all the lines on the other side relatively clearly, it'll be much easier with aiming.
     
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  23. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    User, actually you may not need to see the other sides' lines to aim for them. After all, you're supposed to have your head down at contact. As it was explained to me, the lines don't move, so your brain knows where they are.

    I did a little drill with my pro once. He fed me 10 balls and I was supposed to hit into an area marked by cones. I hit a low percentage of ball into the area. Then he told me not to look at the target area at all but just focus on hitting the ball there. I got 90%.

    Interesting, huh?

    FWIW, I cannot see the opposing baseline clearly either. It causes me to think my ball has flown long only to have my opponent tell me it was well in.
     
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  24. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    This is the kind of thinking and feeling I want to avoid because it affects how you choose to swing the racket. See, I have that too, and to me that sounds like guessing the shot more than playing in the know and with intention. Well, I guess you can never have a 100% confidence in every shot, but a relatively high confidence and enough "knowing" is desirable.
     
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  25. waves2ya

    waves2ya Rookie

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    Another good Mr. Bill thread...

    Here's how one pro I worked with help me understand Wardlaw's directionals: balls can be offensive, defensive or neutral. You will receive many more defensive or neutral balls than offensive ones. Be patient and hit crosscourt for defensive or neutral balls.

    When you get an offensive opportunity - make your opponent pay.

    He used to say it another way too - "there are 'my balls' and 'his balls'; you have to learn not lie to yourself about which balls are really yours vs. your opponents (make you call 'em out loud as you saw/hit 'em).

    When they are your balls, put the point away...
     
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  26. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    A couple things you can do. Place cones and memorize. Or you can use reference points like from the net or other obstacles.
     
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  27. albino smurf

    albino smurf Professional

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    Oh wow! Thanks for this thread. This helps so much I can't get over it.
     
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  28. Tennis_Monk

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    I definitely agree on the point that " I see the game through my own eyes". There isnt ONE SINGLE expert of the game (in this forum) contrary to what ppl may think. I dont trust posts at their face value nor every rinky dinky cookie cutter approach that people try to get everybody onto.

    As i emphasized in earlier posts, your opinion on some aspects means zilch to me. This Directionals stuff is beginners and it really is. No Advanced player will ever hit a ball cross court or DTL because the ball crossed an object (or it didnt).

    It needs a " better" player and really knowledgeable expert to see whether it fits someone or not... as opposed to....<most ppl get the point>
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2008
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  29. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    LOL, yeah, whatever.

    Ahhh, wrong. Although advanced players have developed their shot selection and incorporate other aspects, hitting the crosscourt ball is a staple because it isn't hitting against their efforts and increases their chances to be consistent which is EXACTLY what the Wardlaw Directionals are all about.

    Sorry you dont get it. However, you presented nothing and can't present anything to support your opinion that Directionals are for beginners.

    Hitting crosscourt is fundamental.
     
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  30. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I posted a reply to his video, thanks.
     
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  31. Tennis_Monk

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    It is the other way round. I am sorry but you dont seem to understand or whatever.

    Most things you stated only confirms that directionals are not for advanced.see below
    <<
    Although advanced players have developed their shot selection and incorporate other aspects
    >>
    yes. Advanced player shot selection is more than ball crossing a path (or didnt) and thats what i have been saying all along. Shot selection is usually based on where one is, what one is comfortable doing and what gives most trouble to opponent.Even more advanced ones also incorporate the most likely outcomes of that shot and bunch more parameters.

    I still stand by the same statement that The concept of hitting cross court or DTL because it crossed or didnt cross an object (that too a moving one) works for beginners NOT for Advanced. Advanced players will not hit cross court JUST because they can be consistent. It is way beyond that.
     
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  32. pr0n8r

    pr0n8r Rookie

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    What I have observed watching pro matches since being familiar with Wardlaw is that much of the time the pro's play shots exactly according to directionals. Also, much of the time when they make an error, they are going against the directionals.

    If you want to debunk Wardlaw, I think you will have to do better. You will have to prove that the selections made using Wardlaw are bad selections. If you don't do that, then you really have nothing to offer.

    What do you mean by "advanced players" anyway? Are we talking 4.0, 4.5, 5.0, D1 College, or professional?

    To suggest that advanced players couldn't benefit from a better understanding of risk / reward on the tennis court seems a little naive.

    I would love to see someone chart a pro match, and count how many times the directionals are followed by shot, when they are broken, and the outcomes of breaking them. I bet the results would validate Wardlaw.
     
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  33. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Just wanted to ask what the 'rules' are with Wardlaw's Directionals as they relate to the inside out fh.
     
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  34. Tennis_Monk

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    I am not debunking wardlaw. I am simply stating a very obvious fact that Shot selection at advanced levels is more than a ball crossing (or didnt) one's path. Wardlaw is a good approach for "learning" tennis rallies.

    Advanced players hit their shots based on several factors and their understanding of risk reward goes way beyond Wardlaws.

    I dont know what matches you happened to watch or what you observed or how representative it is of other matches or how much of a sampling it resembles in overall number of matches played in tennis at various levels. So i wont comment but you get the point.

    Which is a better strategy?

    a) Hit crosscourt or DTL because the ball crossed (or didnt) a path.

    b) Hit cross court or DTL because you are in a position to play that shot + (whats my positional advantage on court , what can trouble my opponent /or what can move him around , what other options do i have + etc)

    Which is Naive? I will always hit cross court FH because the ball did (or didnt) cross the path regardless of opponent /his position and also ignore all other apparent options available to end a point ?
     
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  35. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    TM - The more you post the less I think you have any understanding of this thread's topic. I suggest you familiarize yourself with "The First Rule of Holes."

    - KK
     
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  36. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    Thanks ...but no thanks.

    In this thread, It is the purporters of Wardlaws as an advanced concept that are in need of that "first rule of holes".

    I understood enough about this wardlaw concept to know its merit and its obvious limitations. If others dont see it that way and they think this is the best thing since slice bread...all the power to them.

    some of the posts actually "thinks" PRO's violated "wardlaw" directionals. Leave it to some TW posters to tell worlds top seeded professional tennis players ,what they need to do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2008
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  37. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    You keep saying that advanced players' shot selection is based on "what they feel comfortable doing."

    Could it be that what they feel comfortable doing *is* Wardlaw?

    I mean, you get a pro on the run or on defense, and they get a ball that comes across their body to their forehand, do you think they are going to try to change the direction of that ball and go DTL? I'd be surprised if they even try.

    I'll bet most pros were trained on Wardlaw, regardless of whether it was called something else.

    I mean, you said this:

    Wardlaws is a *foundation.* Obviously players can, will and should learn when to go beyond something that is supposed to be a foundation. That's why they call it a foundation.

    I like Moz' analogy to grammar also. Very clever.
     
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  38. Swissv2

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    Tennis_Monk, so what is your "expert experience" that puts your shot selection knowledge above all others on this board?

    Chuck Kriese, the coach who highly endorses the Wardlaw Directionals, has all his players integrate them into their shot selection AND has a better "tennis resume" than you.

    He was the men's coach at Clemson University and former U.S. Junior Davis Cup Team coach. He is the all-time winningest coach in the Atlantic Coast Conference, and his career victories stand among the top in U.S. collegiate history.

    His coaching accomplishments include eleven ACC titles, eight national top ten finishes, and six ACC Coach of the Year awards. The Kriese coaching legacy has produced thirty All-Americans, sent twenty-three former players to the professional ranks, and spawned twelve current collegiate level coaches from among his former players and assistants.

    Regarding the Wardlaw directionals, he states it should be a staple of an individuals shot selection - only extreme skill determines the shot selection one should use on a very small scale: shots not based on the Wardlaw Directionals should be the exception, not the rule. Even the professionals have a foundation shot selection based on the Wardlaw directionals, and apply them on a regular basis. Once they feel they have control of the point will they imply their choice of shot, OR they have a shot that they can rely on, on a consistent basis. (I.E. the Nadal running passing shot, or the Federer 90 degree change of direction backhand DTL passing shot)

    So, Tennis_Monk, what can you say about your credentials?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
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  39. BeHappy

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    From what I can see, TennisMonk is right, and so is BB, They are both saying exactly the same thing, either BB knows this and he's trolling or else he's misread your post tennismonk.
     
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  40. BeHappy

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    So that means he's right about everything?

    pfffffft, ridiculous.

    look up ''appeal to authority fallacy''.

    Don't bother responding to that post TennisMonk.
     
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  41. Swissv2

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    Its very easy to throw out a term such as "Appeal to authority fallacy", but you don't understand what that means. I never said that Chuck Kriese's knowledge is infallible, because if I stated that, then you can apply your term. Rather, Kriese has a system that has been proven to work time and again with great results at a very high level of play. If Kriese made a claim that Wardlaw Directionals work, which he could never back up with proven results, then one is justified to void the claim.

    The main point in this conversation is that Tennis_Monk's assertion that the Wardlaw Directionals are ONLY for beginners, and cannot be used in advanced play is wrong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
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  42. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Someone had posted on this board once that a similar question was asked of Pete Sampras, and he replied - I just put the ball where the opponent isn't. And refused to clarify further.

    From what I have seen of pro matches, they use this strategy a lot of the time i.e. hitting to the open court, while once in a while using reverse psychology and putting the ball behind the opponent.

    Even the great Federer was mercilessly pulled side to side by Sampras in the third exo last year.

    Every so often a commentator will say - he had the entire open court to go to, but he gave it right back to him and lost the point.

    I am not sure if this follows Wardlaw's directionals, but something to think about I hope.
     
    #92
  43. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Hi Sureshs, first of all. Think of the devil ... yes, I was wondering about your absence and your one-liners :-D . Glad to see you back.

    Actually, yesterday I was studying a Nick Boll video on placement and this seemed to make sense to me (a noob). He talks of RECOVERY position.

    So if you are standing in the center and you hit to the opposite left corner, then you recover slightly to the right of the center since the opp has a larger angle on that side. Its easy to show in a diagram or vid than to explain.
    So when you hit crosscourt your recovery position is the closest to you. When you hit down the line, you have your own court open, and you have to rush to the other half of the court to get to the recovery position.

    Obviously this does not hold true in some situations, like you are sure you have a clean winner down the line. Or short balls. But by and large it is the safest not just due to high margin of error over net and length of court, but also safer due to proximity to recovery position.

    Please let me know if the above is as per conventional/accepted logic. Thanks.
     
    #93
  44. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well this is where your brain fell out of your head.

    Nobody has said it is an advanced topic. What we said is it can be used at all levels and is a fundamental aspect of hitting tennis shots and working out a point. Wardlaw directionals are a foundation to tennis tactics which also includes taking risk, hitting crosscourt to minimize errors, and understanding your own strengths and weaknesses to name a few.

    What you dont understand is it isn't only for beginners as beginners are still learning to hit a ball and sustain a rally.

    The Wardlaw Directionals was introduced at the COLLEGE level and they are hardly beginners.

    If you want to do your own thing that is fine, but your knowledge surrounding what the Wardlaw Directionals is severely flawed which clearly shows you dont know what you are talking about.

    If you read from the beginning of my posts, I have always mentioned that the pros will take more chances, however, they are taking those chances based on their ability to hit a better ball and their training. The pros are well beyond thinking crosscourt balls, however, they are aware that by going DTL with a ball crossing in your body is going against how their body would have a more natural shot. They are wel passed thinking anything about the Directionals.

    It is a lot like learning the split-step, at first it feel awkward but over time it becomes automatic and you dont think about it any more.

    For you to say hitting crosscourt (which is what the Directionals is based on) is for beginners is just flat out false. I have provided so much logical information on this topic that you have absolutely nothing to say and are now beginning to simply argue to argue.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
    #94
  45. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I was caught up in some business travel and could not read your delightful posts. Then one day I woke up and found myself with pains and pulls all along my right leg from lower back till calf muscle. Either a ham string injury or a sciatica nerve issue. It is almost cured with stretching and ibuprofen, so I don't want to find out what it was :)

    Anyways, hitting crosscourt has all the advantages you mention that I have also read - net is lower, distance is greater, area is greater, recovery distance is shorter, path is 90% to racquet face so direction change is not required, etc. That is what I have seen every coach teach juniors.

    Just pointing out that in the pro game, I find that they instinctively put the ball where their opponent isn't, or behind him a small %tage of the time. I am not sure whether it is in accordance with the directionals.
     
    #95
  46. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Yo! We are saying that too! But you have said it is ONLY for beginners!!!! It is not!

    Of course they go beyond Wardlaws but it is the Directionals that are the foundation. Hitting crosscourt, matchups, tactics, taking risk is all wrapped up.

    Well this is where your stupidity really shows. Nobody is saying you cant take risks and go against the grain, especially if you see your opponent recover slowly. Nobody is saying you blindly ignore all your options. That is just dumb.

    What we are saying is blindly accepting risk is what you dont want to do. Understanding the crosscourt ball, what is natural for your body to do is very valuable. This is fundamental and carries through to the advanced levels of tennis.

    If you can't do them dont knock them. But to think the Directionals are the end to tennis strategy and tactics is just stupid.
     
    #96
  47. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Pros will build a point. The crosscourt ball is a staple shot. If they want to open it up, they need to take risk. This may or may not work in their favor. However, going crosscourt is alway obvious to see especially if they are working the ball around for a key matchup they want.

    What is idiotic to say is that the Directionals are the end to all tennis strategy, tactics, and risk taking and that it is only for beginners.
     
    #97
  48. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Very often putting the ball behind the opp does mean CC too, although i can guess that sometimes it is not - when opp goes down the line and runs to cover cross-court - even I've done this with success -- the DTL behind the opponent is an easy one, doesn't need to be a killer shot.

    Now I'm a newbie to all this but while watching the Nadal-Fed match i did notice him often giving it back to Nadal DTL rather than going CC. And Nadal would go CC and win the point. It seemed absurd to me ... seemed like Fed did not want to give the ball to Nadal's FH and get pounded on his own BH, so he gave BH's down the line. Seemed like a basic violation of Wardlaw with no reason apparent to me.

    Did anyone else notice that, would you like to explain without us going too off-topic.
     
    #98
  49. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Lets straighten some of this OVER ANALYSIS OF WHAT THE DIRECTIONALS ARE.

    All the Directionals are saying is, if the ball crosses you, your most natural swing will be to send the ball back where it came from - which in many cases is crosscourt. This is very evident and valuable for the player that is developing their game plan. It is not something you should be consciously thinking about during a match but should be developed to make it more automatic. It is also what consistency is built on for reasons we already know: longer court, lower net, easier to recover.

    It is also not saying that you can't hit DTL if the ball crosses your body. It is simply about building consistency and using your most natural shot to sustain a rally, work out your tactics, take risk with your weapons, and so on.

    Wardlaws is also about knowing when the BEST time it is to change direction on the ball. This is very important for matchup strategies and understanding what your opponents game plan is against you sooner then later. This has nothing to do with a player wanting to "defy" their most natural shot and do something else. The Directionals are only saying hitting the ball in this direction compliments your most natural swing.

    Finally, it is not saying that you have to change direction. It is again simply about building consistency and using your most natural shot to win the point, sustaining a rally, and building tactics around your weapons, your risk-taking ability, etc...this is hardly beginner level.

    To say that the Directional are anything else, are for only beginners, or to imply we are saying it is more then it is, is flat out ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
    #99
  50. Fay

    Fay Professional

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    Oh I get it now. ThnX
     

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