Mick Diary

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Mick3391, Feb 13, 2013.

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  1. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Yea, I think it's huge actually. I've been playing since 12, and to this day I'm nervous when I play a stranger, the nervousness makes me angry, anger fuels me.

    He is the exact opposite, ZERO EMOTION, great shot, bad shot, you'd never know the difference. He is imitating Fed. He shows frustration against me, but not strangers.

    Yea he has much more courage than me. When I played against, well hit with Justin Bower, I was all worked up, nervous, feeling like my life was on the line. Justin asked Mick to play, Mick was so cool, I couldn't believe it, he just doesn't get nervous. Great trait, I think you have to have some anxiety to fuel you along, I use anxiety for fuel, but not him.
     
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  2. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Interesting about learning to toughen up. I get frustrated I think because when I was 12, I had already played every sport, cuts, bruises, pulled this and that, no biggie. I mean if I were tired, I would run so I wouldn't be tired, all of the kids for the most part were like that. Now it's like pulling teeth to get them to train.

    He'll come around.
     
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  3. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    It's there, I feel sure, but he's learning how to control his anxiety. Two of my nephews exhibited similar personality traits when they were Mick Jr.'s age. They became quite successful.
     
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  4. President

    President Legend

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    It seems like you are putting way too much pressure on your son and getting way too angry with him when he doesn't play well, lighten up and let him start to enjoy the game. Just my two cents...
     
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  5. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    ok, this might seem like the worst idea you ever heard, and feel free to ignore it.

    Cardio Tennis

    you can even do it with him.

    it's excellent aerobic training that is entirely skill based. ie, hitting a LOT of balls while keeping your heart rate way up

    ok, flame away y'all :)
     
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  6. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I haven't gotten the impression that Mick Sr. actually gets angry when Mick Jr. doesn't play well. But maybe I missed that. Mick did emphasize that Mick Jr. has complete freedom and that he, Mick Sr., merely introduced his son to the game and that his son wants to play more than he does.

    Anyway, question to Mick Sr.: Have you ever gotten, angry with Mick Jr. when he hasn't played well? If so, my humble suggestion is ... don't do that, as it can quite possibly become counter productive. In my experience, the very best coaches, teachers, instructors, mentors have been those who never get angry.

    They teach and lead by example and relatively quiet, not overly demonstrative assertiveness.

    The best coaches, mentors, and the best players, have the mental toughness to not show emotion. If one practices this behavior enough, then one actually feels less emotion, less stress in pressure situations ... imho.
     
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  7. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    No flame from me. I think this is actually a great idea and a good thing to practice (ie., hitting balls with an extremely elevated heart rate). Because this is, after all, the primary challenge. Being able to focus and perform well when unduly stressed.

    Of course, some of us hit that 'heartrate wall' sooner than others. For me, it happens after only a few rally shots in which I'm required to exert a lot of effort.
     
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  8. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    No, I don't get angry with him, people as I predicted just assume that because I'm a man and because I love helping my son. Whenever a man seems interested, fascinated about his son some automatically assume I'm some drill sargeant! Oh well.

    Have I got frustrated? Sure. But if I see a problem with him, I take the blame as I'm the teacher. He wants to be trained like me, and that includes sometimes saying "Move it". I refuse to say "Good job", "Your a winner", if he's not. I'm HONEST, and he appreciates that. If he didn't want to play, he'd just say "I don't want to play", or "Can we do this the easy way"(I asked him upfront if he wanted to do it the easy way or the hard way).
     
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  9. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Never heard of Cardio Tennis per se, will have to look that up. Isn't Tennis Cardio by definition? Oh well, will look it up, and thanks!
     
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  10. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Hey Mick. I think you've got things well in hand. It seems apparent to me that you've given a great deal of thought to what you're doing. Of course, since you're dealing with it first hand, then there's going to be some trial and error involved.

    With that in mind I'm going to do what I should have done from the start which is to keep my second hand opinions to myself, since I've never mentored anybody or raised a son. So, from now on, regarding this thread, I'm just going to read your Mick Diary as it develops, hopefully learn from it, and wish you and Mick Jr. all the best.

    One last thing before I shut up. How's the camera quest coming along? Have you found a suitable, yet inexpensive, model that will work for you? By the way, I finally took the time to fashion a camera holder (out of a wire clothes hanger) that I can hang on a tennis court fence. Going to try it out today or tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  11. GRANITECHIEF

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    #61
  12. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    These look like just the thing, and they're inexpensive. Thanks much GRANITECHIEF!
     
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  13. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Please don't stay on the sidelines, I like to hear your input.
     
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  14. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Mick. Actually, it's impossible for me to remain completely silent about anything ... even (or should I say especially) stuff that I know very little about. :) But I'm going to try to keep my input here to a minimum, as I'm more interested in just seeing how the diary evolves.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
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  15. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    here you go

    http://www.cardiotennis.com/

    there is bound to be a coach in your area running this stuff.

    if you take the shot making element seriously it becomes a brilliant training tool.
     
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  16. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Finally, Mick has a serve. How frustrating it's been to teach this to him, oh he can tap it over, but a real serve, powerful slice. He did like 10 out of 12 in, then well enough to compete.

    I KNEW it would just "Click" with him. I'm not saying he has some great serve, but he has a real serve, enough that now I will put him back into tournements.

    What a trouper, we played for like 3 hours yesterday, then 4 today in the rain.

    Of course dad torn a ligament under his knee and had to go to the hospital, so now I'm on "Happy Pills" and a leg brace!
     
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  17. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    USTA Tourney on the 19th! Wish him luck!

    Why do I get the feeling that he'll either destroy his opponents or be destroyed:)
     
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  18. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    age or NTRP?

    good luck anyway! :)
     
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  19. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    Junior right? Isn't he a junior?
     
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  20. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    He's 12. I don't know what rating, they don't do it that way, they have like I think it's beginner, novice, etc.

    Problem is, last USTA tourney he was in, his only one, it was the lowest like beginner, but they had some killers in there, clearly higher ranked kids who had played a bunch of tournaments, I mean you can look it up, they played at say intermediate.

    I get super serious about it, then I think "Heh, you learn alot from losing, lighten up man". I just don't want him getting in the habit of losing all the time, you know to lose confidence.

    The NTPR rating system is weird in my opinion. I mean if you can beat a pro, yet aren't ranked your ranking is lower, so I don't pay too much attention to it. It's vague, "If you can generally control this and that", come on! I've played some 5.5's off of a local tennis website they have up here, and they sucked, others say they are say 4.0 but are much better.
     
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  21. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    ok, that's weird. In other countries it is always based around age and young Mick would simply be in the 12 and under draw (or maybe the quallies since he is new to tournaments)

    the exception are the occasional ITN Tournaments where competitive 12 year olds are usually considered around a 7. (I think that is about NTRP 3.5 without actually looking it up)
     
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  22. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    What country are you in?

    Yea, here all you do is look up tournaments, then and sorry I forget what it is, but it's like "Novice, Intermediate" etc. but it's nonsense. Then you go in, some kids can barely hit, others are really good. Mick was put in with two guys who had played tournaments for a couple of years.
     
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  23. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Australia (mate!)
     
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  24. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Would LOVE to live there. Seattle bites.

    We play year round, but half the year it's "Water Tennis", heh at least it teaches him to play in difficult circumstances. You know when the ball hits, if it has topspin, it actually speeds up faster on the bounce, like a rock skipping on the water.
     
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  25. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    In Southern California (United States) junior tennis is set-up by age group in two year bands (10, 12, 14, etc.) Within each band there are three groups, novice, satellite, and open. There are specific rules about who can play in which group and sub-group. Basically, if you play up and get killed you can play down again. If you play up and have success, then you can't go back down.

    Novice is the lowest level, but it doesn't mean that player has never played a tournament before, or has never tried to play at a higher level.
     
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  26. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    Ah, joy, USTA 12's, aka junior pusher conventions. Good luck to your son!
     
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  27. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    The courts at Green Lake are really nice for public courts, though.

    Unfortunately, there are only a handful of indoor courts that are reasonably
    priced.
     
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  28. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Best of luck to Mick Jr. in the tourney!

    Yeah, I wonder. :) Anyway, it's only a game. (ONLY A GAME!??) :shock:
     
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  29. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Heh you might be surprised, Mick is no pusher, he's aggressive and really places his shots. I attribute that to him starting with a wood racquet and learning flat shots.

    Yea some of those kids are crazy good. One of the trainers, he is the NZ guy who was number one in NZ, like 258th in the world, he was training this kid about Mick's age, he said the kid was one of the top kids in the country, and said that "Once in awhile this kids runs us around", I mean the kid was nuts good.
     
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  30. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Hey Tom, good news for you, you can beat me now. I have a torn ligament under my knee and am wearing a leg brace, wait, no, I'd still whup you!:)
     
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  31. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    For the amount of time we play, I'd go broke if we played indoor up here. I don't know about Green Lake, we really like Grass Lawn Park in Redmond, nice clean courts. We don't really care, as long as there is a net, we are in, but yea it's nice to play in nice looking courts. I mean they all have the cracks, the weird bounces.
     
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  32. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    In your best interest I would have to insist that you not actually run after any of my shots. If you did I would be forced to call in bona fide medical personel, perhaps even EMTs, to prevent you from doing so. :)

    But really Mick, I hope you take proper care of that. It's a serious injury, isn't it? No sense unnecessarily prolonging your recovery period.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
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  33. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    I'm supposed to rest it for 3-4 months, no how unreasonable is that? I did my standing routine against Mick yesterday and had him play actually like 3 different people. At the end I was in agony, so I simply can't do this anymore, have to let it heal, at least to some degree.
     
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  34. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Back to the diary;

    Yesterday we played on the nice courts. We played about 5 hours, first in, then when it was dark when everyone left we were still playing.

    He played against about 4 different people as my leg was killing me. Did well against them all. One guy who was real good was rallying with Mick, and Mick kept passing him, I think the guy got insecure so he went into his teaching mode, "Well what you want to do is......" as he's getting his butt kicked.

    It was SO COOL. At the end, the lights were on, and I'd hit a ball to him hard, he'd jam it back, I mean real rallies, I was thinking "Man he's come along way".

    Tons of work to do, but he's getting more and more consistant. Best thing is his style, it's polar opposite to everyone. Everyone is a baseliner. Mick starts at the baseline and works his way up to finish them off, or he'll baseline with them then do that slow flat shot barely over the net to his right, it's SO DECEPTIVE, it looks like a full swing, but he stops and it just slides over, no one can get it.

    Everyone seems to be trained the same way, stay back, take huge topspin shots and see who wins. This mixing it up, hitting soft, hard, deep then soft, playing mid court catching the ball in the air really shakes these guys up, they just aren't practiced at it, don't know how to handle it. I have to say I'm thrilled that I didn't listen to others and stayed with teaching super aggressive play. Yea he'll meet guys who can handle it at very high levels, but he needs to know it all.

    At this rate he'll be best tennis player in the school league next season.
     
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  35. tennis ratchet

    tennis ratchet New User

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    i dont get it, was he just hitting with these guys, or playing matches? hard to tell when youre just hitting, you can hit some good shots, but theres no substitute for real competition.it would be good to post a video.
     
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  36. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Regulation match? No. Mick attacks them with everything he has, that is what I'm talking about. Watch how pros practice, they start out slow, then jam up to winners. You can tell as much as you need to know from these sessions.

    That being said it doesn't take into account pressure and other mental considerations of a real match.

    People should understand in MY DIARY that if I say "He did awesome", I'm not saying he's an awesome player, I'm commentating on his play that day for reference and edification for others.

    I brag but I don't lie. I say when he plays lousy or good. What two weeks ago I was commentating on how horrible he was playing.

    What is amazing is that it's been less than a year, and like I said, looking down the courts, seeing some guys, you know 25, physically strong, really into it, lacking the fundamentals and play Mick has when he concentrates.

    I'm noticing that in training someone that they can do 100 incredible forehands, then blow everything else, or then start blowing forehands. In other words consistancy is the factor, or lack of it I should say.

    Concentration is the key with my son at this point I think. It was so cool, like I say, at the end under the lights hitting back and forth, I was like "My baby is playing real tennis with me". Maybe you have to be a dad to understand.
     
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  37. Ashley D

    Ashley D Rookie

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    LOL!!!!!!!!! You can't post on a PUBLIC board and then get cut when people respond to your arrogance. The only poignant peice of info amongst this drivell is that you entered your son in to the lowest level tournament it's possible to enter in and he got his ass handed to him. You have nothing substantial to 'brag' about even if you wanted to.
     
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  38. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    just rememeber, the guys who can't read his variation are playing park tennis..

    don't let him hang his hat on that stuff because he will get smashed by decent juniors if he can't hold his own in a baseline rally, they won't let him volley, he won't even touch it..
     
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  39. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    Listen to this. It is truth.
     
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  40. Ashley D

    Ashley D Rookie

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    Mick3391 doesn't listen to anything. He just tells people things.
     
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  41. thecode

    thecode Banned

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    But give him a break. It is tough bringing that 1st kid thru the jr ranks and a ton of stuff to sort thru. Everyone has their own ideas on what will work. The hit it hard and try to gain control idea has lots of believers, and it feels like you are doing better, along with a built in excuse for why you miss.
     
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  42. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Who said he can't hold his own in a baseline rally? Do you guys even read the posts? He is learning ALL ASPECTS OF TENNIS, understand that?
     
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  43. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Don't worry, Ashley is a stalker who has nothing to do but follow me around and try to insult me, but on my sons diary? Some people are really sick:(
     
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  44. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    I realize this, that's why he's learning all aspects of tennis, instead of the lame and easy "Just sit back and hit from the baseline" teaching of today.

    Those kids who Mick played on the tennis team last year, none of them can touch him now.

    I was warned that all the baseliners only people would come out and criticize me, that's fine, but what feels so great is that my training has shown Mick such a true all court game that even guys like that 28 year old dude couldn't figure him out, I SEE him dismantle the one dimensional players, and while I may be in the minority, we are doing better than others, and this will continue despite what some may say.

    It's so funny, grown ups say "You need to hit deep from the baseline, here do this", then Mick tears them apart. And he's just starting, when he gets consistant, he'll be a killer.
     
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  45. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    which is all fine and lovely, but you admit he has played one age level tournament at the lowest level it is possible to enter and been smashed...

    I am just trying to help. As I have already stated, all court tennis never goes out of style. However, an approach to the net can only come on the back of control of the point.
     
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  46. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    I say this from the perspective of an all court player, just so you know. I can, or at least try, to hit all of the shots. But I gotta say that against good players with modern technique you really gotta establish the baseline rally way more than in days of old. Good spin with heavy pace really helps you do that. I not talking about fluffy moon balls, but rather hitting hard with pace to give you some margin over the net and still have the ball land in. The spin also gives the ball different bounces. There's also an element of of side spin in some of the higher level shots that can mess with your opponent. I personally don't have the talent to hit flat at that pace level and have the consistency that I need.

    You also have to do something that hurts them on the approach. It doesn't have to be a winner, but it's more aggressive pace, placement, etc. than before.
     
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  47. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    on this one I am with Mick Sr.

    let Jr play where he feels natural.

    imagine how much baseline influence Borg had on Swedish tennis.... if Edberg went with the flow, he'd never become the champion he is.
     
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  48. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    I appreciate your input, seems like you are interested, but you have to read the thread in it's entirety, he was entered in a tournament LAST YEAR, and the kids were in a higher level, HE IS LEARNING. He would beat those kids now easy.
     
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  49. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    I agree with you 100%, where is the conflict?

    If we spend a month playing nothing but aggresive serve and volley, does that necessitate we aren't next month playing nothing but baseline?

    He needs to learn it ALL, I will not deny him that.

    I play all court, and I agree with Pete Sampras commentating on the "Modern Game", "If a guy stands back I lick my chops".

    To me the most mindless thing to do is follow others, do what they do, I believe in thinking, listening and considering other peoples views.
     
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  50. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    When I get the cash I'm getting a camera, people will be surprised I'm convinced when they see him play.

    You never know what's going to happen in the future, Mick may give up on tennis, only get so good, or become the next Federer, I mean what's wrong with trying? He could bring more aggressive play back into the game OR if they switch back to fast courts, then what? All of these kids being trained to baseline only will be clueless.

    I encourage EVERYONE to learn all parts of tennis, I can play equally well baseline, mid court, net. My son will baseline, then rush and catch a ball mid air before it lands and crush it over, you just don't see that kind of tennis on lower levels.
     
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