Mikeler's Multis

Discussion in 'Strings' started by mikeler, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Just recall it snapped within 6-8 hrs consistently while a friend tried it and iit lasted 45 minutes. Soft
     
  2. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    Good to know

    I have played with it for 3 hours so it is a little early.

    I will keep hitting it and report back.

    I don't want something you have to restring every 5 to 10 hours.

    15+ hours might be reasonable for me.

    About every string I hit seems to lose significant tension and also go dead at 10 to 15 hours so I don't know if Alpha is much different unless it falls apart next time out which I don't expect from the way it looks and feels right now.

    NRG and Bi-phase might be somewhat of exceptions, but they are rocket launchers for me so I have scratched them.
     
  3. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    I've been guilty of hitting with a string the first time and posting too much great information about it only to realize later I was in the zone that day.
     
  4. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    Softer, but no where near mush and not super muted in my opinion

    Hexy Fiber and Rip Control make Alpha seem crisp and perfect.
     
  5. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Same here. Wonder if that just means we should play with fresh strings every match? :shock:

    It's definitely nice if you have the time/money to do so.
     
  6. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Agree, it is a good playing string, with a great blend of crisp, comfortable, controlled power.

    Hope it lasts for you. It may have been my frame or tension.
     
  7. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Rip Control another name for yarn
     
  8. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    Nope. I've played like crap with new strings too!
     
  9. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    Short love affair...these strings were so great at first and I am so disappointed now...

    Full bed (FB) at 58 of Alpha 2000 18 and FB of Gosen Sheep 18 were great for about 3 hours and then the performance really went down. The strings lost grip and other dynamics that are hard to accurately and concisely articulate so let's just call it overall performance deterioration.

    I somewhat trust the stringer. It is a professional shop with good equipment. I let the strings settle for a day. The strings were kept in 65 to 75 degree ranges at all times.

    Is the likely deterioration:

    -cheap strings
    -18 g
    -stringing quality
    -all of the above
    -too hard to determine

    PPC definitely had a longer and more consistent performance life so it is back at the top for me.

    I am going to try Lightning XX 17, FXP 17 and NXT Power 18. I hope to settle on something after that because this is getting expensive, but necessary.
     
  10. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    Gosen is garbage, have not tried Alpha so I can't comment on it.
     
  11. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Put a set of Hex Multi (=Hexy Fiber for the poors) in a Pure Drive Cortex Plus at 51lbs. It compliments this racquet much better than my previous one. Still good control, not bad spin and much quicker out of the stringbed without being springy. In short, it's crisper, much less muted. Well it's a Pure Drive after all. The string movement is still terrible. :lol:
     
  12. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    And moving the strings back in place hurts the old fingers.
     
  13. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    Thanks.

    I play this stuff more and more in my Tours and it moves not too much in 18x20 @ 64 lbs.

    Well, i hit rather flat.

    When i need spin, it is there.

    KR
     
  14. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    It also hurts my guitar solidified young, long and thin fingers. :lol:
     
  15. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    What is the most Powerful Multi in the market today ?
     
  16. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    See post #2 of this thread. Not multis, but Monogot ZX and Origin are also quite powerful.
     
  17. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Origin is more powerful than X-1 but problem is it feels like plastic and has no feel. + also too much trampoline effect.

    I am assuming you think X-1 17 G would be more powerful than 16 G you listed ?
     
  18. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    In my experience comparing the same 16g versus 17g, the 17g is almost always more powerful.
     
  19. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    What is the relative power of PPC to other multis on a scale of 1 to 10?

    How about NXT Power?
     
  20. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    PPA now supposed PPC was probably a 6 for power.
     
  21. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    That is about what I was thinking. Maybe a 6.5 depending on tension, etc.

    Good to know from a guy like you that seems to have hit a whole bunch of multis.
     
  22. Fifth Set

    Fifth Set Professional

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    Anyone have a definitive conclusion as to which Prince multi replaces their discontinued Premier Attack line?

    Sorry if I missed it in looking back on this amazing thread!
     
  23. mrmike

    mrmike Rookie

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    Prince Premier Control
     
  24. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    Prince Premier Attack and Control could be identical, but I have seen Attack's stiffness rating listed in the 190s and Control's in the 160s.

    Also, I think the illustration of Control shows one more thin sheath on the outer coating.

    I have some Attack that I will string soon to see if I can tell any difference. Most folks seem to believe they are identical.

    I have played my best all around tennis with Control and I think it is a great value.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
  25. Fifth Set

    Fifth Set Professional

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    Interesting, let me know what you think. Meanwhile, I'm buying up remaining stock of Attack where I can find it lol!
     
  26. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I don't put much faith in those stiffness ratings. I've read the test method, and it wouldn't surprise me if the exact same string gives those kind of results on two separate occasions.
     
  27. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    I agree with you.
     
  28. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    Are there any quantitative data points that are a good starting place when considering strings?

    Or for example, I like string X because its stiffness rating is X so I might should consider Y.

    Is the tension loss data or any other sources' data points relevant?

    The descriptions of strings by manufacturers and users are sometimes accurate, but other times off a good bit IMHO.

    Is the string design (beyond material), a good place to start?

    As technical as many players are and since manufacturers have the ingredients and data, I am somewhat surprised they don't give their main ingredients and data versus letting the market test and report "innaccurately." Their generic descriptions are okay for the main stream, but you would think they would also cater to their more technical customers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
  29. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    Learn how they test for each variable and decide for yourself how helpful the testing data is.
     
  30. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    I just hit with babolat Excel power. and it is more powerful than X-1 biphase. more soft and easier on the arm. but X-1 does have slightly more control.
     
  31. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    It seems like those premium multis keep creeping up in price every time I look.
     
  32. John Z.

    John Z. Rookie

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    Hey guys, great thread...

    I'm currently trying to replace my current setting [black widow (main, 18g) + premier control (cross, 16g)] with something more arm friendly yet still quite spinny on ground strokes. I obviously read a few of Mikeler's post on various multis, but thought i should ask for advice: the only settings i have tried so far are:
    1. Prince synt gut duraflex 16g - not good for me, not enough spin
    2. Head FXP control 17g - pretty good, but wondering if i could find a more spinny string with similar properties for longevity and tension stability...
    3. Prince premier control 16g - good, softer than fxp but slightly less spinny.

    Note: i play with a 93' stick with 18.20 string pattern, i typically break strings every 5h or so.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  33. SpinToWin

    SpinToWin G.O.A.T.

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    How about using Dunlop Hexy Fiber either in a full bed or in the mains of a hybrid with a soft polyester (eg. Topspin Cyber Blue) in the crosses?
     
  34. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Right. so we have to ask the question, Is it really worth $22 for multi string as Xcel power and Origin demands. and X-1 is $18. suppose it is up to the individual. $22 Is pretty close to natural gut price. and Xcel power is still inferior to natural gut in every category.
     
  35. old coach

    old coach Rookie

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    Ask Nostradamus. I'm sure being Nostradamus, he can predict when pricing will stop climbing.
     
  36. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    This or RIP Control.
     
  37. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    Forten Sweet (I know this is a traditional core syn. gut (not pure modern multi)) - Curiosities

    Mikeler - If you have hit it, please share

    I hit this string at an odd time because I was having some arm pain.

    After hitting about 5 pure multis and about traditional syns.

    Looking back and comparing, here are my thoughts on Forten Sweet Natural 16:

    Great from the baseline for control, decent power, and consistency.

    It sliced better than any string.

    Serve was okay.

    Spin generation was moderate for a synthetic string.

    Volleys didn't feel great, but power and control were great.

    Tension maintenance and consistency seemed superior to multis and syns.

    It didn't feel very soft or even crisp. It did seem to increase the sweet spot. I can't really describe the feel other than I wouldn't describe as soft, mushy, stiff, or crisp.

    I had tons of variables going on at the time and I started having arm pain so I cut it out after about 6 hours and it was in great shape. I am not sure if it was a factor in my arm issues so I need to try again with a healed arm.

    The overall performance has made it stick out for me versus may strings.

    Did others find the same performance experience?
     
  38. SpinToWin

    SpinToWin G.O.A.T.

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    how about hitting some nat gut while your arm still hurts? :-?
     
  39. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    I've never tried Forten Sweet. After hitting with multis and then going back to synthetic gut, I realize what a big upgrade multis are. Of course, I can say the same thing going from multis to poly.
     
  40. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    Do you have a "safe" and "intro" poly recommendation for those that want to try a "poly?"

    I will review your poly thread too.

    Thanks for the feedback and post.

    It looks like Forten is out of business as I got an "undelivered" back from their email so while their string might be pretty good it doesn't look like a viable/smart option for the long term.
     
  41. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    What is your definition of a multi versus a synthetic gut?

    For instance, what would make say Gamma Professional, TNT2, or a string with a large solid core with an additional set of wraps a multi versus a synthetic gut?

    Just curious and trying to be properly "educated"/"informed"
     
  42. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    A safe one in terms of arm safety would be Solinco Tour Bite Soft.


    TNT2 is a way overpriced synthetic gut. So my definition of synthetic gut is mostly a monofilament nylon string.
     
  43. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    So a nylon string that is lower cost is your definition of a synthetic versus the actual design?

    I would love to know if the price charged to retailers is based on the actual cost to produce or what the string can get for price in the retail market (or some of both).

    Expensive monofilaments such as Gamma Professional that is designed like a traditional synthetic gut would be a multifilament in your definition?

    I guess distinguishing between and arguing about the definition really doesn't matter. I am just curious about your premise of syn. gut<multi<poly because I and many others are interested in your feedback and analyses.

    I haven't quite made the leap that multis are better than traditional synthetic gut (a monofilament nylon string) for me. I would probably agree that most multis play better out of the gate than synthetic guts, but I am not sure over say 10 hours that multis are better.
     
  44. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    String construction not price.
     
  45. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    When you say construction do you mean design or materials?

    I think synthetics and multis are both primarily nylon.
     
  46. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    You are making me exhausted. String geometry may be a better term.
     
  47. BorderLine

    BorderLine Rookie

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    NXT Power 18 g

    Old name is Tour – new name is Power

    Strung at 58 and it felt very tight.

    Extremely crisp, most spin of any multi/synthetic I have hit, great trajectory (high topspin, low slice), big sweet spot – super solid and powerful volleying - felt "stable" and "predictable/consistent" on all shots which is what many strings seem to lack

    A little stiff/not very soft/has “right” amount pocketing and a good sound – I liked it and it was distinctive in its combination of touch and crispness.

    Not super arm friendly...but it didn't set my sensitive and healing arm on fire

    I will have to see how the tension holds and how durable it is but I would say it easily takes the cake so far. However, we know the first 2 hours and honeymoon is the easiest. I need something that will go 8+.

    The 17 and regular NXT would probably be worth trying. It is expensive, but if it keeps its performance up for 8 hours, it will be my string.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  48. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    design, per the tw learning center which sums it up well:

    Synthetic guts fall under the two "solid core" categories. Some people call this monofilament nylon (implying the 'outer wrap').

    Multis, on the other hand, typically do not have a 'solid' core, but instead a "multi-core" or even no core at all.

    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/LC/StringReference.html


    [​IMG]
     
  49. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    TNT2 is definitely not a multi. Some people 'call' them the wrong thing, but TNT2 is clearly a syn gut:
    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Gamma_TNT2_17_String/descpageACGAMMA-TNT17.html


    and professional is clearly a multi:

    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Gamma_Professional_16_String/descpageACGAMMA-GLWPRO16.html

    - note the "core" in gamma pro is not a *solid* core.

    That is your main difference.


    Even Syn guts with 'multiple wraps' but a solid core, are still considered to be a "syn gut" for most people. Unless the core is quite small, like TNT2 "touch":

    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Gamma_TNT2_Touch_17_Natural_String/descpageACGAMMA-TNT2T17.html

    At this point, the 'core' is quite small, so there you go, that's a multi!


    Where you draw the line, can depend when you get really complex/unique strings. I think the more complex it is, people will call it a multi. If the "core" is not quite large and solid, the tendency is to lump it into the multi category. So yes, while all of them are nylon based, for the most part, it just depends on the size and structure of the core, I would say.

    Syn gut on the whole is a Solid Core with single wrap, sometimes two wraps. Any additional "wrapping" and you're in multi territory, for the most part.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  50. John Z.

    John Z. Rookie

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    @SpinToWin - i have never tried "Dunlop Hexy Fiber"; why would you say that this could be a good idea when compared to Head FXP 17g or Prince Prem Control 17g ?

    I will soon try Volkl Cyclone Tour 18g mains with PPC 17g cross - hopefully that will increase spin potential of PPC without increasing too much the stiffness (i read cyclone tour is very soft for a poly).

    Cheers
     

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