Mikeler's Multis

Discussion in 'Strings' started by mikeler, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. Hooked

    Hooked Rookie

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    I suggest trying it. I like it better than poly in the mains. Better control and more spin potential IMO. My hitting partner strung a handful of his sticks with poly/multi and poly/gut combos to compare against my preferred setup of multi/poly. We both preferred the poly in the crosses. A little better feel, more control and more spin.

    I wonder how well a poly mains slides against multi crosses. Some of these multis feel like they have a rubberized outer coating that must inhibit the movement of a main string - even a slippery poly. Seems like going the other way with the slippery string on the crosses would free up the mains to slide back and forth much more easily to provide additional spin. Certainly much more than a full bed of a multi and I would assume a poly/multi hybrid bed too.
     
  2. Brocolt

    Brocolt Rookie

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    I play full Multis and I have been seeing more guys at the club playing multi main and poly in the crosses. They say you want to stay with a smooth (round) poly, and not a shaped or hexagonal poly that will bite into the multi and wear it faster. I am very curious to try the multi main poly cross and see how it is on the elbow. I would be interested in your take (Mikeler's). So far your recomendations have been spot on with strings and the way I play.
     
  3. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    The mains move in my preferred B5E/Thunder Blast setup. I'm not sure I buy the whole strings have to move for spin potential theory but that is a discussion for another thread. I recently tried B5E/Unifibre gut and the same setup the other way. My preference is for poly mains if my elbow can take it.
     
  4. ArliHawk

    ArliHawk Hall of Fame

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    Really looking forward to the Premier Attack Review. Hope the review is favorable, because I am looking at trying this string.
     
  5. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I have to break the other two setups first. If I remember correctly, the reviews for MSV Soft Control complained about durability, so maybe I'll bust that one soon and only XR1 will delay the Attack review. The string feels very unique so I'm getting excited about trying it.
     
  6. Frankc

    Frankc Semi-Pro

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    Mikeler,
    Great review, as usual - on the Supercable, how friendly was it for the joints? Does it mute the sound & feel of the frame?
    Thanks, again...
    Play on...
     
  7. Hooked

    Hooked Rookie

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    There's actually some really good research and science behind this now that there are cameras quick enough to actually show what the human eye can't see. I would suggest checking this out.

    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovement.php
     
  8. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    there is a Super Cable reel:
    WeissCANNON SuperCable Pro - 660' Reels
    Price: $89.90
     
  9. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Super reel price, eh?
     
  10. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Middle of the road for a multi. It did not bug my arm.
     
  11. retrograde

    retrograde Rookie

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  12. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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  13. retrograde

    retrograde Rookie

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    At 62 lbs, RIP 17 usually looks like a nice grid on my PK7g. Which I hope means they don't move very much between hits, but move a lot during the hit. Then again, I hit a flatter ball.
     
  14. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I'm a topspin monkey and a bad ball watcher. All the strings move for me.
     
  15. retrograde

    retrograde Rookie

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  16. slopoke

    slopoke Rookie

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    How about mains of BE5 and crosses of Rip Control? Have you tried that mix?
     
  17. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I'm a fan of har-tru for sure. One other guy at my club uses the 7G but that is because I recommended it to him after he got some TE.


    Think I'm done with RIP Control.
     
  18. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Strung up Prince Premiere Attack 16 last night. It was very easy to string up with the exception of the coil memory. A light prestretch would have taken care of that easily but I don't want to prestretch any multis I test so that there are less variables changed between playtests. Really nice feel bouncing the ball off the strings. Think this one has real potential.
     
  19. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Watch the tension on PPA. I haven't played with it yet, but it does lose tension over time, even after the first 48 hours. I've seen worse tension loss (ie. Fibergel Spin) so it's nothing unusual.

    I'm starting to think that if a string is "lively" it just means it loses lots of tension before you even play with it. LOL
     
  20. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    According to Prince: "Using Tri-Core construction, Premier Attack offers excellent tension maintenance for increased sustainability. The multi-filament outer wraps provide a resilient, arm friendly response with good access to power."

    So that Tri-Core construction should reduce losses. :) RacquetTune shows a 4% tension loss overnight. I'm guessing it will be in the 8-10% range by tonight.
     
  21. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    That's not too bad. It's tough for me to judge since I don't have a stringer so I can't take a fresh reading. I did measure it one hour after stringing and it was 50.8 even though I requested 58. After that the drop was consistent with your observation. Maybe the string factor for density throws off the reading on this one.
     
  22. Hooked

    Hooked Rookie

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    They're moving - you just don't see it because they move back after the ball comes off of them. On extremely heavy topspin shots you may be able to feel the strings move.

    I can't do it every time but when I get a sitter at a good height in my strike zone and really lay into it I feel the ball pulling down on the mains for a brief instant while I swing up and through it. I can do it much more easily with larger head frames but on my 85-93 inchers I sometimes catch the edge of the frame on the ball as it exits spoiling the party.

    I'm all for subjective reviews of strings and I enjoy reading this thread but I also think it is important to be respectful of the intense scientific research that has been done on string movement and spin and the physics of tennis in general. It is shattering many commonly held beliefs and also confirming some of what players have learned through their own playing experiences.
     
  23. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    While stringing, does PPA feel and string-up in any way like Premier LT or Softflex?
     
  24. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    When I measured natural gut strung at 60 pounds a day or two later, it read 51.5. So I think something was messed up with the string factor there. Another interesting side note is that I calibrate my crank so that after the string relaxes it reads 60 pounds. I typically let it pull for a few seconds and I'm not quite allowing the string to fully relax I suppose so most jobs are coming off the stringer between 61 and 62.


    I'm an engineer so I appreciate the science aspect of the game. I've not paid close attention to many of the scientific discussions on TTW aside from RSI stiffness ratings. At the end of the day, I don't really care what the numbers say but how I play with a setup.


    Never used Softflex, but PPA was very strange. It had that gluey smell which the regular Premiere did not. The surface of the string had some slight texture to it but the crosses were a breeze. Prince Premiere had a rough surface. Had it not been for the coil memory, this would have been one of the easiest to string up ever. Just a joy to work with.
     
  25. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Strung Prince Premier LT last Saturday. It is so soft and piable, only Gosen Anna Kournikova Speed and Babolat VS Team feel better. Weavability Supreme.
     
  26. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Hmm, wonder if they changed the formula. I remember that being a rough textured string when I used it.
     
  27. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Definitely not like Gamma Ruff or Tour Bite and need finger cots.
     
  28. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I just went back and looked at my review and only wrote about some friction burn on crosses. The one negative with that string for me is it seemed to deteriorate in performance over time. Less spin, less pop, just less gravitas all around.
     
  29. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Hope not, felt great Sunday, Tues, and Wed. Find out if the bloom is off the LT tonite.
     
  30. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    It did not turn springy like X1. Just lost that excellent feel and spin it had the first two times I played with it.
     
  31. retrograde

    retrograde Rookie

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    That would be a good name for a string :)

    Based on what I know about Racquettune's algorithm, if the same string factor is used for all the measurements on a racquet, the tension loss reported should be pretty good. The absolute readings may not be spot on though.

    As a double-check for tension loss, try this ... Let's say one day RT tells you the frequency is f1. A week later, tension drops and RT says the frequency is a lower number, f2. The percentage of tension retained should be the square of f2/f1. In other words, the tension is now (f2/f1) * (f2/f1) * 100 percent of what it was when you measured f1.

    When you do it this way, the string density is not a factor because it divides itself out in the equations RT uses. I'd be interested to see how well my theory holds water.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  32. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    This is just due to the difference between reference tension, "string my racquet at 58 lbs", and actual tension: no string job will ever be at the reference tension as soon as it is strung.

    Even gut, known to be the best at holding tension, will not be actually at 58 lbs even minutes after it had been strung at 58 lbs.

    Although, I'm not disagreeing with you that multis do lose tension and their liveliness can surely be attributed to that tension loss as well as to their elastic nature.

    Sorry, not trying to be a corrective nerd or anything, but many times people confuse a reference tension (what we string the racquet at) to its actual tension (the tension we play the strings at). I think most strings lose 7-15% of initial reference tension as soon as the knots are tied (or even before the stringing is complete). But this doesn't mean you need to compensate for this and ask your stringer to string at 70 lbs so you can play it at an actual 58. The reference tension is more important, in my opinion, because that's what we can control: the starting point, and determine if that starting point allowed for a good playing experience for a long enough duration to fit your needs.

    Anyhow, I'm done derailing threads for today. :D
     
  33. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Hey guys, I'm not stupid. I have 2 graduate degrees and a scientific and business background. I know the difference between relative and absolute and took advanced calculus, physics, and chemistry in college, so you don't have to explain relative percentages to me.

    I already said I don't have a stringing machine, so I don't have a fresh measurement. I can only guess. When I look at these measurements, the one that's important to me is how much relative tension I'm losing after the string has settled. That's why I only reported relative loss after settling in the past when I posted on this subject. In this particular case, the string has been settling for a long time, and it keeps losing tension one week after it was strung without touching a tennis ball, which is an interesting observation. It's probably not the only string that does that. I'm not some idiot who doesn't understand why string factors affect measurements.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  34. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Cool deal, no one was trying to say anyone was stupid. Just trying to be helpful, and if I said something you already knew, then maybe I helped someone else lurking in the thread.

    Cheers
     
  35. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I beat up the MSV control good tonight against a big hitter. It will break soon, so I'll be cutting it out tonight. Was not the greatest on my elbow and I had weird wrist issues with it. Full review tomorrow.
     
  36. retrograde

    retrograde Rookie

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    Ramon,

    I apologize if I offended you, that was certainly not my intent. I've always thought you have valuable comments in this forum.
     
  37. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I think you're right on that one!

    Intellitour broke today. It was one of my favorite setups until I picked up PPA. I played with it for 2 sets. It's soft, doesn't feel like gut but feels like a high quality multi, low powered, good ball pocketing, good spin, and doesn't move a lot (for the first 2 sets at least). It didn't feel like the tension was too low, so my thinking is that the string factor makes the RacquetTune measurements deceivingly low if you don't adjust for it. I might even go looser next time for more power and feel. It may not be as crisp as RIP Control at the net and doesn't have the poly-type directional control that RC has. I have to make adjustments for touch shots after being used to RC hybrids (PPA tended to be a little long on drop shots), but those are minor issues. It's the most comfortable setup I've used in a long time. If it lasts more than 8 hours and doesn't drop off a cliff in performance and tension, then I'm done with RC.

    If it lasts, then I hope you hate this string. It's priced at $9.50, so I hope you tell everyone it's just another Wilson Sensation!

    Kirschbaum Touch Multifibre will be next. At over $14, it better be really good if PPA's durability and tension maintenance hold up. I have a set of MCS that I was going to try as a cross with RC, but that will have to wait until I become more familiar with PPA. I know it's a bit early to tell. I'm hoping that this one lasts.
     
  38. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I hit a few balls last night with PPA. My impression from just hitting 1 minute with it is that the power level was quite high. It was a very unique feel to it to, nothing that I've experienced with any other multi. Hard to tell from such a limited outing how it will perform in a match situation.
     
  39. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I was anticipating a higher powered string than Intellitour, so I strung PPA at 58 instead of my usual 55. That still shouldn't make much of a difference. I did notice more pop on volleys and touch shots but groundstrokes were fine.
     
  40. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Ah, OK that makes sense then. I really think I'm going to like it but I need to break the XR1 first. At the rate I'm breaking these multis, I might get in some match tennis on Tuesday night with it.
     
  41. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    MSV Soft Control = Meh

    Here is my review in the TW format of the MSV Soft Control 16.

    I strung up MSV Soft Control 16g a week or two ago. Pretty easy to work with. I did notice some clamp ghosting. Seems crisp yet soft with the old ball bounce test. Also "feels" like a high quality string. I tried to look for the 3 strands of poly on the outside but could only spot 1 clear piece.

    Tension it is strung: 60 pounds on a lockout machine full bed
    Your regular string set up: Weiss Cannon Black 5 Edge 17 Mains(52#)/Genesis Thunder Blast 16 Crosses(56#)
    Racket: Pro Kennex 7G (this is different than the others tested in the Babolat PST+)
    String pattern of your racquet: 16 x 20
    Power (or lack there of): Low
    Feel: Average
    Tension maintenance: It does not last long enough to worry about this. RacquetTune (RT) showed a 12.5% tension loss before I cut it out.
    Price: $11.50/set, reels don't seem to be available in the USA.
    Overall comments and feedback: See below

    General: This is an average multi with below average durability.

    Serve/Return of Serve: Could not get much pop with it. Second serves were getting attacked too often. Couldn't be too aggressive on returns without making errors.

    Strokes: Was getting a decent amount of spin on both wings for a multi. Depth control was OK but I had a hard time flattening out shots when I needed to. Slices tended to float on me.

    Net Game: It's good for volleys but not great.

    Touch shots: Average. I had only 1 drop shot that was an absolute winner.

    Softness: The string softness felt about average but my elbow was bothering me last night and this morning. I also developed a light pain on the back of my hand both times I used it. So I would not recommend it for arm sufferers.

    Tension: Since this is a poly/multi blend, it makes sense that a lower tension might work better for this string. Still, the majority of this string is not poly. The conditions were very hot and fast last night so I was surprised by the lack of pop. My arm felt like it was going to fall off from swinging so hard.

    Durability: After about 2 sets, I was noticing some wear at numerous string intersections. After about 3.5 sets, I decided to cut it out since I knew it would pop soon and it was giving me some arm issues.

    Movement: The strings did not move much the first set, but after that the mains would move some but the crosses stayed mostly locked in place.

    Conclusion: I can't recommend this string due to the lack of durability and arm comfort especially for a string that is above $10.
     
  42. Kcraig

    Kcraig Professional

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    Enough for me---PASS!!!:twisted:
     
  43. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Cut my sets of Signum Pro Micronite last night. It is a true multi versus a solid core with multi wraps which I typically like. Hopefully I can string it up tonight and at least get a minute of hitting with it tomorrow.
     
  44. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Got about 2 hours in with XR1 today. Tecnifibre just makes good multis. It is fraying like crazy and I have 2 hard hitters on Tuesday and Thursday. I'll frankly be surprised if it survives Tuesday.

    Hit for about 1 minute with Signum Pro Micronite today. Man that is a comfortable string. Got Prince Premiere Attack before Micronite. After that test, I'll try the Boris Becker multi out and then it will be the battle of the premium multis with Klip Venom, Kirschbaum Multifibre and Wilson NXT.

    I cleaned out a drawer today and found what looks to be 2 half sets of Wilson Reaction. So that may get added to the playtest too. Also will be trying a Yonex 80% natural gut/20% multi prototype. Plenty of playtesting the next 2 months and then hopefully back to the mikeler matchup by then.
     
  45. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I just tried ordering more sets of PPA from TW. The 17's were all gone. The 16 naturals were gone. The 16 blacks were supposedly in stock, but when I finalized my order, it said "pending".

    What's going on? I sure hope they don't raise the price.
     
  46. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ Not a good sign. I'll give it a crappy review even if I like it. :)
     
  47. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Hey Mikeler, are you back to multis again? I though you had switched to polys?

    Anyway, I was wondering what you thought were the MOST POWERFUL multis you have tried so far? I need to juice up my Prestige S and want the most powerful string out there.
     
  48. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I am back to multis to prevent TE. Look at the multis I tested below the dashed line in post #1 for powerful multis.
     
  49. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    mikeler....is the ranking order in post 1 still your preference ranking for these strings?
     
  50. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I guess we have very different ideas of powerful multi's and that's why string tastes are so personal and subjective. I thought Xcel, XOne and Prince Premium were very powerful multi's and I also thought Maxim Touch was lower powered???

    If anyone's interested I have several packs of the original Maxim Touch available or to swap for more powerful multi's.
     

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