Minigame with the ATP takeback?

[torpantennis]

Lately I've been learning the ATP takeback on my FH. Previously I used a more WTA type of takeback. I also have a tendency to armswing when I have a typical bad day. When I'm in the zone, the ATP takeback feels so great and I can easily get into the groove to use it.

I always start the practices with a bit of minigame warm up. For me it feels there's no way to use the ATP FH in the minigame, with a slow incoming ball and limited space to work with. In contrast the WTA FH with long takeback feels natural. I can just swing slower with the smooth long stroke. But as I try to learn away from it, I use a short takeback, but from there I tend to just drop the racquet down and wrist swing or arm swing from there in the minigame. It feels impossible to use the ATP FH in the limited space, as with the short takeback it feels I cannot swing significantly slower without altering the swing path, the racquet lag etc.

What do you think, is it even possible to use the ATP FH in the minigame? As I described, currently the minigame warm up tends to build me an armswinging mood, or WTA FH mood, which is not good at all! Should I just ban the minigame in the warm up?

 

[psv255]

By minigame you mean mini-tennis/half-court?
Ideally any swing style should be compatible with any depth hitting, be it ATP or WTA. I hit more ATP than WTA FH - when hitting from half-court I just remove the takeback almost entirely - that is, start my swing, about 6 inches behind where my eventual contact point is. I scale down the motion, so it becomes easier to time the swing and really feel how the shoulder comes forward, hand dips the racket below the ball, recoils, and wipes through and over.

Here's a great video of Henin warming up her FH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb_yYgT-CL4

 

[rkelley]

Justine Henin seems to think so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb_yYgT-CL4

Seriously, learning how to hit in minitennis with your real take back, abbreviated, but your real motion, is key to really learning the stroke and learning how to control it. Go practice it on the wall.

 

[mightyrick]

I think mini-tennis is great for warming up. I also hit with an ATP-style stroke. During mini-tennis, our rule is that the ball should land inside the service line and that you should stand on the service line.

Focus on the mechanics, loose grip, extreme low-to-high. Hit everything with an an open stance. Works great.

Then move progressively back towards the baseline after 8 or 10 mini-rallies.

 

[TennisCJC]

In the Henin video above she is hitting the ball deep and it would not work if both players were just behind the service line as her opponent would have to play volleys instead of groundstrokes.

I agree with Pat Rafter. He was not a fan of mini-tennis and I hate mini-tennis. I think trying to force a topspin groundstroke to land inside the service line when you are standing inside your own service line is awkward. I prefer to just start at the baseline and hit slow and smooth down the middle until you get warmed up and establish a rhythm.

 

[Spin Doctor]

In the Henin video above she is hitting the ball deep and it would not work if both players were just behind the service line as her opponent would have to play volleys instead of groundstrokes.

I agree with Pat Rafter. He was not a fan of mini-tennis and I hate mini-tennis. I think trying to force a topspin groundstroke to land inside the service line when you are standing inside your own service line is awkward. I prefer to just start at the baseline and hit slow and smooth down the middle until you get warmed up and establish a rhythm.

Then stand behind the service line...or create an imaginary line halfway between the service line and the base line and use that as your boundary.

I like mini tennis but only with other players that are decent at it. A lot of people just can't control the ball or their power.

 

[corners]

I think that Henin video is awesome and does show the way, for her first three hits anyway, of how to hit the ATP-style forehand short and easy using a pretty full take back. It's not easy, especially because if you do a full gravity drop you're racquet will already be traveling faster (about 20mph) then it needs to be to put the ball inside the service line. So there is a bit of holding back going on during the forward swing. But it can be done. Certainly, working from the service line back to the baseline as Henin does there is a nice way to get the groove on a relaxed swing before beginning to hit with more vigor and speed.

 

[torpantennis]

Justine Henin seems to think so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb_yYgT-CL4

Seriously, learning how to hit in minitennis with your real take back, abbreviated, but your real motion, is key to really learning the stroke and learning how to control it. Go practice it on the wall.

I think you're right. I have no problems with the WTA FH in minitennis, i.e FH that I've been using. Wall really is a good idea, I think I'll shoot some videos there, check the errors and try to make the corrections on the next shoot, and then check if I were successful. IMO, that's the best way to learn anything new.

 

[sovertennis]

Then stand behind the service line...or create an imaginary line halfway between the service line and the base line and use that as your boundary.

I like mini tennis but only with other players that are decent at it. A lot of people just can't control the ball or their power.

Yes--to properly use mini tennis as an effective warm up, both players need to stand about 3' behind the service line and target a space about 2' inside the service line for their shots. This will allow for taking a proper stroke, as others have posted here.

 

[marian10]

start my swing, about 6 inches behind where my eventual contact point is.

this

At service line you can find timing by isolating hand feel. You shouldn't take a full stroke in that part of the court during a match anyway.
it'a game of catching vs throwing, that's why most baseliners suck at short game.
Saying it's not usefull is like saying grooving volleys without rushing from baseline is useless
And it's a warmup why would you activate hips and shoulders the minute you arrive on the court?

 

[marian10]

start my swing, about 6 inches behind where my eventual contact point is.

this

At service line you can find timing by isolating hand feel. You shouldn't take a full stroke in that part of the court during a match anyway.
it'a game of catching vs throwing, that's why most baseliners suck at short game.
Saying it's not usefull is like saying grooving volleys without rushing from baseline is useless
And it's a warmup why would you activate hips and shoulders the minute you arrive on the court?

 

[torpantennis]

this

At service line you can find timing by isolating hand feel. You shouldn't take a full stroke in that part of the court during a match anyway.
it'a game of catching vs throwing, that's why most baseliners suck at short game.
Saying it's not usefull is like saying grooving volleys without rushing from baseline is useless
And it's a warmup why would you activate hips and shoulders the minute you arrive on the court?

Because I want to learn away from loopy WTA style takeback.

Can you even hit the ATP FH w/o hip rotation? The point of ATP takeback is to keep the racquet in front of the shoulder line. So if you do this, and don't rotate your hips or shoulders, then what do you do?

 

[Ash_Smith]

I always warm up in the service boxes and have no trouble hitting my full swing. I also always encourage my athletes to hit short court first as it serves many purposes.

 

[rkelley]

I think you're right. I have no problems with the WTA FH in minitennis, i.e FH that I've been using. Wall really is a good idea, I think I'll shoot some videos there, check the errors and try to make the corrections on the next shoot, and then check if I were successful. IMO, that's the best way to learn anything new.

When I play on the wall I'll start out hitting short - i.e. minitennis. I do a full turn and mostly a full take back. I just turn into the ball with my core with way less force and velocity then I normally would, and I just try to let my arm and racquet flow out to the ball. I'm just trying to establish the swing path and get used to seeing the ball coming at me. I'm swinging almost totally up and I want to feel the racquet whip.

Besides warm-up this exercise helps with just learning to control the shot. In a real game there will be times when you'll want to hit more topspin, more through, or just not as hard. You can learn to develop more feel if you can hit the ball with your regular form in minitennis.

I always warm up in the service boxes and have no trouble hitting my full swing. I also always encourage my athletes to hit short court first as it serves many purposes.

Listen to Ash.

 

[ProgressoR]

I always warm up in the service boxes and have no trouble hitting my full swing. I also always encourage my athletes to hit short court first as it serves many purposes.

Agree here. I've been improving my FH recently and keeping the grip loose and the wrist loose and I find I dont really have to change my full swing for mini tennis to warm up. I am just using the racket head speed to brush more, but I am still swinging pretty fast with a virtually full swing.