Moaning and Grunting

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by tennisboi206, Jul 9, 2006.

  1. tennisboi206

    tennisboi206 New User

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    why do pro players moan and grunt when playin tennis does it make them play better?
     
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  2. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    It's because they're putting that much effort into the shot. If you try you're absolute hardest you're likely to grunt.
     
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  3. ubel

    ubel Professional

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    They may be putting a lot of effort into the shot, but it's kind of stupid when it gets so loud that it's affecting the other player's performance. There's a point when you're at an "acceptable grunt/moan level" (as if any is acceptable, it's ludicrous) and when you're just too damn loud and it becomes a matter of gamesmanship. You can make the assertion that they're putting that much effort into the shot or hitting their hardest.. but when you see Federer hitting forehand and backhand winners with unbelievable pace while barely breaking 20 decibels, something in your mind has got to tell you the other players might be exaggerating with their sounds a bit (well, except Hewitt, he just sounds funny).

    I could understand if this were world's strongest man, but frankly it's not. It's a controllable response that would barely affect how they play.
     
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  4. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    Well i know sharapova grew up being taught to grunt loudly to win.
     
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  5. andyroddick's mojo

    andyroddick's mojo Professional

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    the point of the grunt is the exhalation of breath. this causes the muscles in the body to relax more, so while you're swinging in a tight rally, since your muscles get right, the exhaling will relax your muscles, allowing for a more fluid swinging motion with less tension.
     
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  6. Osteo UK

    Osteo UK Rookie

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    Makes sense - think of doing bench press and you tend to breathe out with your contraction.

    I've also heard of some using the grunt as a "mental focus point" - trying to co-ordinate the grunt with contact etc.

    I don't play that many who grunt, but when I do, I try and use it to help. When they grunt is when they (usually) contact and the type of grunt can give you an idea of the effort/shot/even mental status of the grunter.

    If someone grunts against you, try and make some use of it rather than letting it bother you. ;)
     
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  7. Janne

    Janne Semi-Pro

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    Lately I´ve noticed that I´ve begun moaning/grunting just a little bit when I´m hitting my hardest, but not loud enough that it would bother the opponent, if they can even hear me grunt/moan.

    I think that the kind of moaning/grunting Nadal and Roddick to is okay, but Sharapova and Venus and/or Serena cross the line.

    PS: 100 Posts, now I´m a rookie. In your face "new users".
     
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  8. Osteo UK

    Osteo UK Rookie

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    I'll 'ave you soon me old sunshine. ;)
     
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  9. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    don't you use both sets of muscles for a bench press? so you should breathe out all the time :rolleyes:
     
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  10. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Some players do it, some dont. Some players have a rythmic moan, some don't. My take is it is simply something that isn't necessary to play better. It is something that a player simply likes to do. They get used to it and then think they can't play unless they can grunt. Just as a player can train themselves to like doing it, they can untrain themselves as well. There are other less obnoxious ways to let out air.

    Screamapova is an example of being ridiculous.
     
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  11. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    First I'm going to say I don't understand the problem people have with grunting, especially spectators. If you don't like it, don't watch. I personally don't even notice when players grunt (not even Sharapova) until someone else watching mentions is. I don't grunt on most shots (unless I'm on the run or whatever), but I do on almost every serve, no matter how hard it is or how much effort I put forth. It is not a conscious effort, and it never was. It just happens. It would take a lot of effort and concentration for me to stop making a sound when I serve, which would impare my play. I don't think most players do make sounds intentionally. They once said during a Sharapova match that she doesn't grunt in practice (at least not like that), but that it is pretty much the adrenaline and mental state of a competative situation that causes her to make the sound, ergo unintentional.
     
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  12. darkaug

    darkaug New User

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    u might get hernia if u dont release the pressure in your body when you whack some hard balls
     
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  13. GeauxTigers

    GeauxTigers New User

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    I find it helps me to follow through

    Because when i get tight or tired, I don't and my shots suck.
    It's helps me stay loose and keep good racquet head speed.
     
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  14. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Nice try but the reality is people are allowed to watch a match and play a match whether someone is screaming in it or not. Players have a right to also have anothers screaming not hinder their play as well.

    The bottom-line is players can take their screaming to an extreme. It doesnt just happen, it is allowed and for those that do scream - it is being tolerated. I will never agree that someone needs to scream on every shot to play well. Nor will I agree that it is necessary.

    You can think whatever you want, and I the same. I support those pursuing to eliminate it - period.
     
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  15. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    I'm not arguing that some people do it intentionally or that it can get excessive. I'm just saying there are a lot of people like myself who do make sounds but do not do it intentionally. Are you in favor of banning all sound on court or just the outrageous stuff? If it is just the loud ones, then I think it would be too subjective and could lead to a bit of gamesmanship.
     
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  16. Marat Safinator

    Marat Safinator Banned

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    As peter fleming has said, your natural breathign technique does not make you let out loud noises such as nadal, gonzalez, coria, williams sisters, sharapova, schiavone etc. i think its completely terrible.
     
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  17. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well there lies the issue and you have a very intelligent truth seeking response. Not like some others that refuse to see anything.

    So, what is outrageous and how does one measure that? I think this is the core and the root to solve the problem. For me, it is the screaming I am not in favor of which is the outrageous stuff to me.

    The groaning, moaning or rythmic tones that come out of some players doesn't bother me and I can get used to that. But the screaming and the ringing in my ears from the high pitches belted off the volcal cords is not something I can get used to and is a hinderance to my play.

    Plus, we mostly play with other players in adjacent courts, and although I would like to think we all play in bubbles, the reality is it is a huge distraction for others trying to concentrate in their game and match.

    So the question is where is the line drawn? Ithink there needs to be one even if it is to elmiinate it. When is it okay and when does it become a hinderance? When do we abide by the rules?
     
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  18. AngeloDS

    AngeloDS Hall of Fame

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    It's good to hear people grunting. You know they're usually working harder, so I have pleasure in moving them all around the court letting them exhaust themselves.
     
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  19. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    But others dont like it, what about them? What do the rules say? Why are the rles being ignored? Are they being ignored?
     
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  20. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    While I don't see any easy or acceptable solution for the general public, it would be possible for the pro tour to implement a sound measuring device and to give players warnings for going above a certain decibel level just as taking too long between points.
     
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  21. AngeloDS

    AngeloDS Hall of Fame

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    It's never bothered me :p having managed & assistant coach to a girls hs tennis team (lots of grunting, moaning and just yelling lol).

    Though for other people it can be a huge bother and annoyance. They have the right to call the rules and redo points. In the pros we don't see players pulling that out because of sportsmanship and what-not.
     
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  22. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I do, ban it. It is not necessary.
     
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  23. looseswing

    looseswing Professional

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    Even if it is banned I doubt that the general public will follow the rule. It would be like calling footfaults, not many people do it or follow the footfault rule.
     
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  24. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    What about the slight unintentional audible bursts of air from the mouth? Should those result in a point penalty? I don't think it would be fair in the other direction at that point. I don't even know how I would go about trying to stop making a sound on my serve...
     
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  25. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    However, much like the foot fault, people would do what they could to avoid breaking such a rule just because it would be a part of the game. Foot faulting is just to prevent getting an advantage by serving from closer. I don't think the incidental 2" over the line is very adventageous, nor would a light groan every once in a while be cause for stopping a point. If it happens it happens and you let it go. You might get a third party to step in, though, if it becomes a blatant habit.
     
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  26. Roger_federer

    Roger_federer Semi-Pro

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    Look at Federer. Hes great. He doesn't have to moan and grunt. I think I only saw him grunt like 2-3 times.
     
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  27. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Your are literally turning your well intended questions to a meathead thread. Don't be a meathead, read my above post for your answers. "So, duh, if I sneeze is that a penalty? Duh, if I fart is that a penalty" Duh, if I twirl my racquet and it makes a wind sound, is that a penalty?"

    BAN IT! DO YOU COMPRENDE? THAT IS WHERE I STAND. YOU MAKE A STUPID LOUD NOISE THAT DISTRACTS ME, WE HAVE WORDS, GET IT?
     
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  28. SrGuapo

    SrGuapo New User

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    I think the point he is trying to bring up is where is the cutoff. There is a lot of gray area between an exerting moan and a shriek. I honestly don't mind the screaming, but I can understand a ban or something. You just need to be able to define limits, which may be quite difficult asnd subjective.
     
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  29. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    No screaming, got it? No farting, got it? No nothing. Just hit the damn ball. If your opponent complains, then you shut up. If the ump gives a warning, then you shut up. If the spectator in the nose bleed section has to cover his ears, then you shut up.

    If the players in the next court tells you to shut up, then shut up. Or if you get dirty looks - shut up!

    Everyone with common sense knows when something is too much. Just use your God given common sense! If you tell a little screamer like TennisDog to shut his trap, then he better shut his trap. If it gets to the point that people can't decide, then ban it all. I can play tennis just fine without making stupid noises.

    Screamapova is loud, she is the mark. Williams Sisters are the mark. Now we have measurement. The umps need a decibel reader, if it hits a certain mark, penalize em' or punish them. Got it?

    It is stupid to scream, dumb, lame, unneccessary, bothersome, obnoxious, ridiculous, stupid, asnine, phoney, attention seeking, deliberate noise-making, a hinderance, bad for the game, should be banned, should be fined, needs to be done away with.

    Warning: If you are a screamer or anyone else on this board, you should be kicked out of the game. You are doing it because you talked yourself into thinking you need to do it.

    Quit screaming no one is trying to kill you.
     
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  30. Jim_Courier's_Fluffy_Hair

    Jim_Courier's_Fluffy_Hair New User

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    Sharapova is just a joke and I think she crosses the line. I loved it when meauresmo beat her.
     
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  31. rasajadad

    rasajadad Hall of Fame

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    If it's a necessary part of some players' games (breathing, timing, effort, etc.) then why do so many players:
    A) Only do it sometimes. Sharapova, Venus, e.g.
    B) Seem to do it closer to when their opponents are about to hit?
     
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  32. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    That is the point rasajadad, it isn't necessary. People want to make a case that it is but it isn't. The best player in the world hardly makes a peep and he crushes the ball. It is something that a player simply chooses to do, not something they need to do.

    So I guess a player goes out on the court and decides they need to scream in order to hit the ball. Let's think about this. I wake up, have my cup of coffee, walk outside and get my vocal cords warmed-up. I let out a couple good screams and nearly wake up the neighbors. I am now ready to go play tennis. I scream to a couple of songs so I can work on my breathing. I am now at the court and take some warm-ups and screaming everytime I hit the ball. The match starts, now I am really ready to scream. I feel like I have to scream in order to even put a dent in the ball or get my head in the match. Also, if I don't scream I can't focus right. I just can't get into the tennis match unless I scream. I need to breathe and screaming is part of my breathing.

    Do you guys really buy this? Is this a selfish inconsiderate thing going on here? What about my neighbors? What about the people trying to warm-up with or next to me? What about my opponent? Don't they have a say in my stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, assnine, dumb, butthead way of playing tennis?

    Baseball players don't scream when they go for the homerun do they? Golfers dont scream when they try to drive it out there on a Par 5 do they? Soccer players aren't screaming when they smack a long kick down the field, baseball pitchers don't scream when they release their fastball, the Quarterback doesn't scream when he releases the bomb (well unless he got nailed in the ribs)? Bowlers aren't screaming when they release the ball are they? And the ball can be pretty heavy!

    So why is tennis practically the only sport that wants to compare itself to "weightlifting"? Is this a joke or what!

    Also, if screaming was necessary why is it mainly the women? Is the ball really that heavy? Is it really necessary? Everyone put on their common sense hats and think about it. Is it truly necessary? The answer is - NOOOOOOOO!

    Warning: If anyone is a screamer, leave the game and go put in your application for WWF Smackdown.
     
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  33. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    Any Karate, Jujitsu, etc experts out there? Why do they make those noises? Hollywood glamour or is there some reason they make those bizarre noises?
     
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  34. Marat Safinator

    Marat Safinator Banned

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    grunting is dumb and it should be banned!!! You dont need to do it, you choose to do it as bungalo bill said.
     
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  35. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    It all started with Monica Seles...she absolutely RUINED women's tennis for me. I couldn't bear watching it anymore. The Williams sisters took it to a new level to intimidate. Shriekapova is just plain rude. All of these players can play without all of the noise. One day some player is going to grow some cajones and walk over to the chair and demand that something be done to stuff a sock in Shriekapova's mouth...until then we suffer..and don't tell me about the mute button...I know it exists.
     
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  36. Janne

    Janne Semi-Pro

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    Just video-taped me hitting a little with my dad and I noticed that I only grunt/moan/whatever when I´m trying to blast away when serving/hitting on the run/really trying to kill a slow ball. Though I dont grunt/moan as loudly as Nadal/Roddick since my dad said he could barely hear me when doing it.

    I agree with BB to a certain degree. I think that Sharapova and others who really scream should shut up and the same goes to people who do it on purpose to distract the opponent. Though I have no problem with the "mild" grunting/moaning of players like Nadal who do it on basically every shot.
     
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  37. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    So now tennis is going to be compared to karate? What about the other sports? Why aren' they screaming?
     
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  38. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    BB's remarks are all spot on. Ban it, ban it, ban it!!!!!!!
     
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  39. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Excellent word! I was trying to think of a good word and could only come up with dumb, assnine, ridiculous, etc.. but RUDE is perfect! It is rude!
     
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  40. Janne

    Janne Semi-Pro

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    When you are practicing martial arts the trainer usually recommends the students to make that famous Karate-noice because they believe it makes them able to generate more power when punching/kicking and I think that people who have heard this believe in it and it has become a psychological thing for them.

    If they scream, they hit the ball harder. If they dont scream it has the opposite effect.
     
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  41. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    Lol.
     
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  42. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    Nope, just wondering if there was a purpose. BTW the first grunting I remember was Andre and Lendl complaining about it. So maybe Bollettieri came up with it.
     
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  43. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    That is different. When you make a noise but the sound stays within your own space - that would never bother me. But if you belted scream after scream on everything you did, that would bother me.

    Everyone lets out some air on certain shots much like the famous rally call - COME OOOOOONNNN!!!!! That is sports. It is an every now-and-then thing that happens sparadically - really, no one is bothered by this unless you think it is unsportsmanlike conduct.

    But when a player is yelling COME ON, COME ON, COME ON, COME ON, COME ON, on every shot - wouldn't that be nerve racking? Wouldn't that be distracting? So if I don't use words and instead scream on every shot, that is okay?

    However, if the opponent thinks it is unsportmanlike, then the benefit shoudl go to the opponent who has to hear the crazy stuff. At that precise time - the little screamer needs to shut up.
     
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  44. FH2FH

    FH2FH Professional

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    I think the "screamers" have found over time it helps them win matches. Why?

    1. The other player can't hear how the ball makes contact, which drastically affects depth perception. This is especially true for mishits.

    2. It is distracting to their opponent, when NOT used to playing a screamer. It is absolute gamesmanship when taken to annoying levels.

    3. They are forcing themselves to exhale/relax during the stroke, which is the one positive benefit of screaming/grunting.

    If you don't think sound is important when playing, try playing at a court where you cannot hear the ball hit the ground or other players racquet. I played a match a few years ago on the 4th of July. All I can say is, wow. It seems like it shouldn't matter, but it does.

    IMO, Over-Grunting is cheating, like McEnroe's temper tantrums, Chela spitting, Hewitt insulting, etc. Shut up and play, like BB said. We are all big boys and girls, but there comes a point where it is rude and obnoxious. Players get away with far too much on the court. I have no respect for such BS.

    Checking decibel levels is not a bad idea, but the crowd might interfere with the measurements. It would be accurate on points where the crowd is quiet however. Finding some way to reduce it overall would be beneficial. Only so much drama is good for tennis. This has become ridiculous. Contrary to McEnroe's opinion, I think his behavior was NOT good for tennis. The guy is a jerk. A great player, but a jerk.
     
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  45. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    I really don't understand why, since the exhalation (sp?) of breath does relax the muscles, then why in the world don't they just exhale without the grunt. I think the extremely audible grunt is just a psychological thing that needs a good whack on the head. :)
     
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  46. fast_server

    fast_server Guest

    ITF
    26. HINDRANCE (OLD 21, 25 & 36)
    If a player is hindered in playing the point by a deliberate act of the opponent(s), the player shall win the point.
    However, the point shall be replayed if a player is hindered in playing the point by either an unintentional act of the opponent(s), or something outside the player’s own control (not including a permanent fixture).

    see also "The Code"

    BB - absolutely correct in that there needs to be specific boundaries established - I think the worst case is when in mixed doubles - where the deliberate noises are almost calculatingly deliberate, so much so that it is extremely hard not to laugh like school boys when it sounds like primal intercourse. That's a must for calling Hinderence.
     
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  47. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    "A good whack on the head". Hilarious!

    Seriously, breathing is important. I would never say it isn't. A low audible moan is tolerable and for the most part 99% of us would agree that it would not bother us and does not cause a distraction. But a scream is distracting and is not necessary in exhaling to put some punch into the ball.

    We are not weightlifting and we are not in a karate tournament. Tennis has its rules and we need to enforce the rules.

    What does the Tennis Code say?

    41.2. Grunting (or other loud noises) can be the basis for a let or loss of point, and should be avoided. Fortunately, a player can usually adjust to his opponent's grunting so that it does not become a distraction; unfortunately, grunting can be an annoyance to players on an adjacent court.

    When my child starts to raise his voice where it becomes distracting or annoying what do I say to him? I say "please use your inside voice".

    So attention to you screamers out there: Please use your inside voice when moaning and groaning. Let it be something that you can hear but your opponent barely hears. Otherwise, we will put you on a time-out.

    Self-management is good etiquette.
     
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  48. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    No, it was Monica Seles. Did she train @ Bollettieri too? It is odd that lot's of his former students do it though isn't it? Hmmmmm. Does Nick bear some responsibility for not stopping it before it got out of control?
     
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  49. ubel

    ubel Professional

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    I blame Bruce Lee. Damn him and his ridiculously awesome skills.
     
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  50. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Hey Bungalo Bill,

    Can you explain to me exactly why exhaling can relax you?

    Thanks
     
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