Moaning and Grunting

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by tennisboi206, Jul 9, 2006.

  1. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    1. If you don't exhale, you will turn purple and die. (kidding!!!!)

    I am really not a Doctor type but maybe someone here can help you. What I do know is it helps with your anxiety.
     
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  2. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Ah, no wonder people thought I was constipated on the court! :mad:
     
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  3. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Where are those screamers at? You know who you are. Come out and tell us why we need to accept this in the sport of tennis. Give us your lame analogies with other sports, your pathetic sports science myths, and your lame rationale on why you have to belt out blistering, ear popping screams to hit a two ounce tennis ball.

    And don't give me the crap about the heaviness factor do to spin and speed of the incoming ball. You also do it when the ball is barely moving like on a serve.

    Come out you closet freaks and take some shots. Let me hear you scream with your pathetic excuses. I want it banned, over, done, bye-bye, c-ya, adios, canned, penalized, fined, kicked-out, ratings reduced, nail beds used, electric shock treatments, bamboo slivers in the nails, chinese water torture, etc....

    If you want to scream, let's hear some real screams. Torture sounds about right for you pathetic little tonsil wigglers.
     
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  4. FH2FH

    FH2FH Professional

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    Here's a good read. You'll find more of the same if you search.

    http://www.effortlesstennis.com/fundamentals.html

    "12. Breathing
    Regulating your breathing allows more efficient use of your energy. The skill of breathing while you play is often overlooked. Most people hold their breath at the moment of contact. People are so busy trying to hit the ball that they forget to breathe until they are gasping for air. Holding your breath at contact means you are tightening muscles as you are hitting the ball. It seems like tightening your muscles would create more power, but what is actually happening is that the tightening decelerates the racquet thereby diminishing power. Over the last dozen years or so exhaling on contact has been championed by many of the mental training experts in the game. The new piece of the puzzle from Effortless Tennis is inhaling as your partner contacts the ball, timing your inhale to continue until you exhale as you contact the ball. Soft inhale, soft exhale."

    Oh... and I'm not a screaming advocater!! Breathing = Good, Screaming = Bad (unless it's beacuse I'm crushing my opponent, haha).
     
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  5. Midlife crisis

    Midlife crisis Hall of Fame

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    Apparently, there is some sort of biofeedback from the core body muscles so that forcefully exhaling causes the muscle to be able to relax more. It's similar to a type of stretching called PNF (proprioreceptive neuromuscular facilitation) where you reach a stretch, then tense the muscle, relax it, and then find you're able to stretch it further.

    Bolletieri was a proponent of it in the long past and I remember commentators saying it started with him a couple of decades ago. It was also supposed to help prevent choking on a shot somehow.

    Who knows, but it really is ridiculous that someone has to grunt so loudly on a drop shot. Can you imagine if all of a sudden, golfers started grunting when they putt?
     
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  6. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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  7. Janne

    Janne Semi-Pro

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    Wow, BB. You really hate these screamers with a passion now dontcha? :D Atta' boy!
     
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  8. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Yeah, what Bungalo Bill said....and more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Off with their effing heads!
     
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  9. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Oooops..a most humble apology to BB for posting inside your quote...my computer spazzed on me.....
     
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  10. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Hey BB, Didja get it out of your system or are you still brimming with pick-a-fight energy?
     
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  11. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Boy, you were dangerously close to being labelled a screamer. Your disclaimer saved your butt as did the last sentence in the article. Dangerously close. :cool:
     
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  12. ryomasengu

    ryomasengu Banned

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    becuz they have an erection
     
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  13. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    No, it is not out of my system. Where are the screamers. I had a screamer playing on the adjacent court the other weekend, it irritated me to no end. I need to take it out on one. Where are they!
     
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  14. dragonxking

    dragonxking Rookie

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    really?! good cuz i thought it was just me
     
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  15. Jonny S&V

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    BB, git yer shotgun, we got us a screamer to keel!!!
     
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  16. rasajadad

    rasajadad Hall of Fame

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    Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill
    Warning: If you are a screamer or anyone else on this board, you should be kicked out of the game. You are doing it because you talked yourself into thinking you need to do it.

    Quit screaming no one is trying to kill you.

    Bill,
    I agree with you wholeheartedly! But does the above remark mean Monica IS allowed to scream? ;-)
     
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  17. In D Zone

    In D Zone Hall of Fame

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    AMEN!! The grunting is finally getting center stage! It should be Outlaw!!!!

    Never seen players grunt so much playing a sport - Only in Tennis. You don't hear it from players - baseball, basketball, soccer, football, hockey, gymnastics and la crosse. I would think these sports are equally or more demanding to play requiring agility, strengthen and speed.
     
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  18. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    lets git r done!
     
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  19. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    The point here is NOT whether it bothers the "spectators", however, if you haven't noticed lately, we don't get many of them anymore for some reason - you take your pick on why.

    The point IS that its not only a distraction to your opponents but "others" who just happen to be on adjacent courts.

    Tennis has always had its share of problem areas in the last fifty years - this just happens to be the latest "problem" that the USTA and others have failed to clamp down on. It will run its course (I happen to think the end is in sight) like most of the other problems of the past and we'll get along with playing the game. Its just too bad that like life, a few seem to think that they are annointed, the "special ones", the "princes of the game" who can do whatever they feel like.
     
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  20. TennsDog

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    I was saying that because of all the complaining people do about Sharapova and other pros, not lower level spectators.
     
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  21. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    We know deep down you are a screamer. I bet you go home to your closet and let those screams out. :)
     
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  22. TennsDog

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    I'd only be a screamer if I ever played you. :p
     
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  23. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Hahaha, :)
     
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  24. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Well, figure it out. If people are "annoyed" by players like Sharapova, or more specifically all the "wanna-bes" out there who are getting on everyones nerves, then the practice has gotten out of hand.

    Lets say, for example that someone has learned the game by having to chew tobacco and most realize the bi-product of that habit. Are the opponents surposed to just put up with the tobacco juice all over the place? -- I don't think so.

    How about other little annoying habits (there are many) like language, throwing racquets, hitting the ball over the fence when something goes wrong (my favorite), hanging towels on the fence just behind where your serving, bouncing the ball fifty times before you serve, re-throwing the toss time after time, arguing over every close call and wanting to call things on both sides of the net, excessive bathroom breaks, etc.
     
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  25. FH2FH

    FH2FH Professional

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  26. emo5

    emo5 Rookie

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    So how would you classify Lleyton Hewitt?
    I can just hear him on tv; he's not as loud as sharapova but not as quiet as Federer. His grunts' sound like whistles to me on tv.
    Is Hewitt too loud? Or is he hanging on the line?
     
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  27. FH2FH

    FH2FH Professional

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    Hewitt is much quieter than Shriekapova, at least during the points. I think he's off the hook.

    Let's build a list... Has anyone got a sound clip of the other accused offenders? Here is a sound clip of Sharapova screaming. (Don't get TOO excited!! lol.)

    http://www.thevoiceofreason.com/2005/06/Audio/sharapova56K.wma
     
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  28. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Don't believe that Hewitt is loud on every shot he hits like Shriekapova. Papa is very wise and right on the money with his comments. Hope he's right about fixing the problem soon before it gets waaaaaaayyyy out of hand and every person that learns to play feels they have to scream and every pro does it!
     
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  29. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    When people start looking at you with strange looks, when you are always hearing that you are too loud by fellow players and/or teammates, when you hear snickering from people as you walk by them, when someone confronts you angrily about keeping your mouth shut, when you see people shaking their heads in disgust while you were thinking that you were "impressing" them with your "effort", you're over the edge.

    When you hear Screamapova does it ever occur to you in a fleeting thought that she is quite loud?? Do you think the same thing with Hewitt? Or Guga? Perhaps, but I bet you would think more about Screamapova then the others - she stands out as the trophey winner for obnoxious spoiled brat play.

    With a grunt, the sound waves do not ring on and on in your ears. But when someone is screaming over and over again, the sound waves bouncing off the walls, net posts, chairs, court surface, and other things echo and shreak in peoples ears. Is this right? If we aren't allowed to have cell phones ring during play, why is a person allowed to scream at the top of their lungs with every shot?

    Over my years moving through this thing we call "life", I have concluded that it is important to respect people's boundaries. Screaming in tennis violates other people's boundaries. With that said, boundaries aren't so ridged that it does not ebb and flow with the situation. If a player moans and groans, most people wouldn't say a word. It is like someone walking about 10 yards into a no trespassing zone you set up. You would probably look at them and that would be that.

    But screaming is a lot like someone tearing the sign down, walking all the way into your property, killing any livestock you have, and then blowing your head off with a shotgun. It is extreme. It is unnecessary. It does not do anything that the player believes it is doing. And if it truly is, there are other less intrusive ways to get into rythm to play tennis with one's breathing.

    We all have commons sense and I think that we can all come to agreement that screaming is wrong, it shouldn't happen. but we also need to leave room for those that think they need to moan to get into rythm. I am fine with that but think we simply need to manage it. For the most part, humans are reasonable and can come to a concensus of what is inapproriate. I have faith in that.
     
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  30. TennsDog

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    Those are all completely different because none of them (as far as I'm concerned) could be considered to hinder the other player's performance during a point. I mean, a towel on the fence?? Come on. If you notice something like that during a point and it screws you up, you have bigger problems to solve first.
     
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  31. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    I've noticed Nadal not been on this thread. What do you think of him? Do you think that the effort that he puts into his shots is worth the "scream"?
     
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  32. Jonny S&V

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    Great, now I just set myself up for all the Nadal lovers on the board to-kill lists.:|
     
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  33. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    No.

    I have yet to hear (or at least realize I've heard) anything from Nadal while playing. Whatever he does must not be a problem.

    Another thing about the screaming with pros is that the audio setup they have enhances all court sounds more to use than to the players. When they bounce the ball before serving, it sounds almost as lound to us as the regular in-play bounces. When my opponent bounces the ball, I can barely hear it 80 feet away. The screaming may be having a similar effect.
     
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  34. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well what do you think? Do you think his screams are necessary?
     
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  35. Jonny S&V

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    He gets annoying when ever the other guy isn't grunting at all and it's very noticeable (IE:Federer). But if they are both grunting, I don't notice it as much (IE:puerta).
     
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  36. FH2FH

    FH2FH Professional

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    Nadal is not offendeder #1, but he probably overcooks it a little. At least his effort can usually be gauged by the type of ball he hits. It seems to be more physical based than to psych out the other player. He is extremely powerful and swings very fast, a bit like James Blake.

    On the other hand, Screamapova/Williams sisters etc often use decibels to win a point more than effort, especially the important ones. To me this is an intimidation tactic, which also makes it difficult for the other player to concentrate and sense exactly how the ball was struck.

    On the Bolleteiri (sp?) comments, at least Haas is an example of a non-offender. I can't think of the others, Capriati? Non-offender.
     
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  37. Mike Cottrill

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    #87
  38. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Really. Although I am not bothered by the towel stuck in the back fence, I certainly know players that are. What would you say if the towel was yellow or the opponent wore a yellow shirt/shorts that just so happened to match the balls, would that get to you? How about six towels in various places on the back fence so he wouldn't have to walk so far? --- Just making this stuff up but it could happen - actually the clothing issue has happened.

    Although you might not be bothered by some of the things I mentioned, others might be. I don't, for example, fine it pleasant when changing courts to see that someones coughing fit resulted in some glob of foreign matter on the court which just happens to be my side now.

    I've been around a long time and question the "individuals" rights over the rules and code of the sport - any sport.

    I guess what your saying is that the opponent should not concern themselves with anything other than their own play, regardless of what it is. Am I trying to play in a vacumn - no, but I have to focus on my job on the court and find that unnessary distractions (like people traffic directly behind the opponents court) bothersome. If you can deal with it, fine, play on.
     
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  39. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    I agree that Nadal does it because of his output of physical energy and not the intimidating style of the others mentioned. They just get louder and louder especially if they're down a break. Tommy didn't grow up at Bolletieri's did he? Knew he did train in Fla but thought the Nick connection was fairly new...not sure though.
     
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  40. Jonny S&V

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    Tommy has been with Nick since Tommy was a preteen I believe.
     
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  41. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Thanks, didn't know that. I've always liked Tommy's game and he's made a few appearances in the ladies biceps thread too. Sorry, off topic.
     
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  42. GuyClinch

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    I had this coach who likes to say "ahhh" with each stroke. It's not that loud but this exhaling with sound is a pretty useful tip, IMHO. I can see why the pros grunt. it kind of raises your intensity level and helps you get into groove without.

    Pete
     
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  43. TennsDog

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    Aside from what people mention about not hearing the ball at impact, would you all agree that the grunting (and other "distractions") are mental hinderances that just get to you? If so, then what ever happened to tennis is 90% mental? Shouldn't one be of strong enough mental state during competition to not worry about other things going on? How is this not considered a lack of ability on one's own part to concentrate on the important task at hand? I have sometimes been considered a "poor sport" or rude because I don't concern myself with the other player. If I hit it off the net, my point, I win. If I hit the player, he was wear I hit the ball, I win. I never applaud opponents because that is not part of playing within myself and my game. Nor would paying attention to anything else they have going on. Focus on your own game properly and you won't notice anything else anyway. Problem solved.
     
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  44. Kobble

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    For some it helps them cheat better.
     
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  45. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    NO I most certainly would not agree. Tennis is supposed to be a civilized sport,played by civilzed players. Mental strength has nothing to do with cheaters or poor sports that must win at every cost. Sorry, but I do feel strongly about this issue.
     
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  46. FH2FH

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    That's pretty much how I feel. When you must distract the other player to win, that makes you an axxhole, not a mentally tough player; whether it is screaming, throwing racquets, taking too much time, rushing, etc.

    I play a guy who absolutely cannot stand to lose to me. He had a great winning record against me for a while when I first started playing (15-1?) and probably thought I would never improve. Now, we split sets. He will immeditately resort to trash talk or other types of gamesmanship just to get in my head if I'm winning. Sometimes he will GRUNT a few times when hitting the ball, then GRUNT extra loud when hitting a drop shot or short ball, which is obviously intentional. Sometimes these affect me, sometimes they don't. I think it helps me play other jerks, but it does occassionally get on my nerves.

    To me, the game should be played so that both players receive respect. I don't mean congradulating the other guy for good shots, or offering them water if they run out, etc, but at least not trying to get in their head. It shows weak character IMO. I think less of this guy for that, but I still like to play him because it's a challenge; defintely more mental than physical for me. Off the court it's a little different, but he still must be the "winner" all the time. It's a bit ridiculous now that I think about it.
     
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  47. marcl65

    marcl65 Semi-Pro

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    Has the loud grunting (is it my imagination or is it predominantly on the WTA?) come about with the power game? It seems to me the touch players (Henin, Federer, Hingis, Schnyder, et al) do not grunt while the heavy hitters (Williams sisters, Nadal, Sharapova, etc) grunt heavily.

    And can't we thank Monica Seles for introducing the grunt/shriek to tennis? I think it was Martina Navratilova that complained about it to the chair ump during a match. After that, it seemed like grunting/shrieking was accepted/acceptable.
     
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  48. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Don't know if you've read this whole thread, but I blame the whole shrieking thing on Monica...she absolutely ruined women's tennis for me at the time...I could bear to hear her so I just stopped watching...period! Damn you Monica Seles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  49. TennsDog

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    If these things are done intentionally to make the other player mad it's one thing. But I don't think it's fair to assume that everyone who grunts, throws rackets, yells, etc. does so to get at the other player. I do some of these things and I am surely NOT thinking about the other player at that time. If I hit a bad shot and yell or slam a ball into the fence, I'm not disrespecting the other player, I'm showing frustration towards myself. So before you get mad at people for being rude and grunting on court, at least make sure you know the reason why they do first.
     
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  50. JRstriker12

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    On Grunting, saw a funny thing durung the Wimbledon broadcast. Brad Gilbert was talking about how you don't have to grunt to play well. To prove the point, the spliced together footage Fed and Sharapova so that it looked like they were playing together. It was funny, with Fed being totally silent and Sharapova making a lot of noise. What made it even funnier is that they way it was spliced together, Sharapova won the point.
     

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