Moaning and Grunting

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by tennisboi206, Jul 9, 2006.

  1. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    On Grunting, saw a funny thing durung the Wimbledon broadcast. Brad Gilbert was talking about how you don't have to grunt to play well. To prove the point, the spliced together footage Fed and Sharapova so that it looked like they were playing together. It was funny, with Fed being totally silent and Sharapova making a lot of noise. What made it even funnier is that they way it was spliced together, Sharapova won the point.
     
  2. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Tdog...we're not talking about people that do these things from time to time. None of us our angels here (at least I know I'm not) but we don't deliberately shriek our brains out, each and every point to try to win by intimidation, ugliness and just plain rudeness!
     
  3. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    TDog, you are close to being labelled a screamer. :)

    Seriously, whether it is intentionally or not, if it is loud enough to cause a distraction the player must stop. Most players moan within their diameter of sound travel. By the time it reaches the ears of the other player it is a low audible sound that can easily be dismissed much like a other noises around them.

    If a loud low flying airline jet flew over you, wouldn't that be distracting? If you say no, you are fibbing and that is not nice. ;)

    If someone screamed all the time, to many of us, it is much like that low flying loud airline interrupting our ability to concentrate.

    There is absolutely no reason an opponent needs to put up with that much noise during a match. If you think about it, tennis is the only sport with this problem! It doesn't need to happen!

    Now, I have taken you as a person with common sense. The bottom-line is, it is too loud. It is too obnoxious. It is too extreme. It needs to be curtailed and brought back into perspective. I think we have gotten too liberal with allowing it and so that kids think it is okay.

    Anyone can play competitively and hit a ball hard without making a bunch of "I'm on the toilet" noises.
     
  4. Frodo Baggins

    Frodo Baggins Semi-Pro

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    Now Now Bungalow bill:eek: Need I remind you of that very first thread in >(The first message board);) Called grunting>Now that was funn I still remember it (Man I feel old ) as For grunting or Moaning I'll say it again over an OVER(>I think when my faves Grunt or moan It's a Turn on) I love it when they grunt or moan mmm yaaa..Very sexy!!! As for woman players Ban thier shrieking unless your a BANSHEE!!! But never ever get rid of Men grunting it's such a turn on.
     
  5. TennsDog

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    Hey Bill, aren't you forgetting a small detail before almost labelling me a screamer? Like maybe screaming. Lol. Just because I defend something to a certain degree does not make me an advocate or practitioner. Anyway, basically what I have been trying to say this entire time is that there is no one situation that everyone experiences. Each time and each person is different, so no one rule, one argument, or one complaint can cover them all. People do things varying amounts, to varying degrees, for varying reasons. Just trying to get people to think about this before hastily scolding everyone who annoys them on court.
     
  6. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I am not forgetting a darn thing. I think you are being a nut wobbling back and forth on this issue. You are wishy-washy because you think you have to groan and moan to play well. Far from it!

    The only degree you have is if the opponent or the ump doesn't say anything about it. That is it. If you are too loud for the other player, irredgardless of the amplitude you are dishing out - you need to shut up and play the match.

    If you believe someone has to "GET USED" to your noise, then you have to understand your opponent has a right to complain and get you to stop making noise. The trouble is, you dont like to hear that or accept that because you think you are allowed to do anything and place it under the banner of "competitive attitude play that is necessary for you to get into rythm." What a bunch of BS.

    If the other person has to learn to focus over your stupid sounds, then you have to focus and play without your sounds when the ump or opponents say it is bothering them.

    The other player is the judge and if you can't handle it, shut the hell up. Maybe with the other player speaking up, we can put this stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, lame, full of excuses ordeal to bed.
     
  7. TennsDog

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    No, that's the whole thing. I don't make much sound when I play. Like I said, I do let out an exhaustive grunt every once in a while when I am in an awkward situation or trying to make pace on the run, but I don't think it makes me play better. I'm not saying I couldn't play as well not doing it, I'm just saying it happens without my conscious effort. End of point.
     
  8. Silentgunz

    Silentgunz Rookie

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    me and my friend just started grunting because we were bored and we thought it was funny and i was playin in a game and i grunted when i return the serve and they thought i said out so he didnt return the ball then he got mad... i told him to reserve but he was like no... so i stopped
     
  9. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    I certainly agree totally with BB on his post.

    When we talk about the "mental" aspects of tennis we're not talking about "outside" elements such as screaming and the many others mentioned. The mental part of the game is mostly (certainly not all) the players playing against himself - his self-doubt, getting down on himself, etc.

    "Outside" elements are for the most part, things that the individual really has no control over. Sure, some players are bothered by some things more than others. A shrieking female voice may bother me more than others but it makes me hesitate just a fraction of a second in doing my job - and I really think thats whats its intended to do. Not trying to pick on the women here but my point is that we're all distracted to differing degrees by distractions.

    Incidently, the defination of a "grunt" is: "deep short sound characteristic of a hog".

    defination of "shriek" is:"to utter a sharp shrill sound", "to cry out in a high-pitched voice".

    I would like to see where "shrieking" is allowed in any rule book - certainly not "allowed" in the USTA book.
     
  10. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I do not believe you groan and moan without knowledge of that. The auditory senses are receiving outside information and the brain needs to process it. I also play tennis and know when I am doing it.

    What I can believe is that the first one or two groans come out unvoluntarily, but once your hear yourself, it is conscious. You are just not aware how loud it may be. But even still, players can gauge if their voice or noises are too loud.

    However, even if it happens without conscious effort, I am sure most players wouldn't complain. But when they do, you need to respect the other player.

    Well I dished it out to you, I tried to drag you through the mud, challenge your thoughts, intimidate your thinking, jar your emotions, and you have shown me you are of strong mind. You kept the conversation on track without losing your emotions.

    Even if we can't come to complete agreement, good job! Your strong mind will go far in tennis.
     
  11. FH2FH

    FH2FH Professional

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    I have no problem with occassional grunts and I probably do this myself from time to time. When it's EVERY point that's extremely annoying. I don't see why this rule can't be modified. The problem is defining: how loud, how often, what penalty?
     
  12. Jonny S&V

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    Again, the officials should have a decibal meter, and when ever they go over a certain level:
    1st offense: Point deduction
    2nd offense: Game Deduction
    3rd offense: Default
    The problem is, what's a good level? Any ideas? I'm not old enough to now exactly how much a certain amount of decibals can be compared to so I can't comment. :confused:
     
  13. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    When the other player complains - it is too loud. Each of us have different senstivity to sound. I know I hear everything. But I have a strong background in music and have been trained to listen to other instruments to guage my instruments loudness.

    It is not a matter of forcing the other player to concentrate harder or making fun of them because they should be able to play under any situation or noise. The truth is the noise maker is bending the rules to their favor, they are manipulating the rules to do whatever they want. That is not fair.

    If I unintentionally placed my toe on the net as the ball was in play, can't I complain that I didn't mean to do it? That I subconsciously did it? Or it was just an accident? What makes one rule in tennis absolute and the other ignored? Is it the rebellious nature in us?

    If the other player complains, or the officials in the match, it is too loud and it must stop for that match.

    Every player can play without making unsettling noises. I think what you will find is that this is a type of situation that needs to be governed by the players.

    If it doesn't bother the opponent when Screamapova belts her shrieks, that is not our concern if the officials do not complain as well. But if a player does complain or the officials complain, stop the noise, get rid of the excuses of not being able to play without screaming, and hit the ball.
     
  14. FH2FH

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    With the 100db shrieks of Sharapova it's obvious, but what if players complain about minor grunts, peeps, etc. Do you think that would happen? It's a judgement call by the umpire I guess. I don't think that's a problem. 100db is extremely loud though. She was recorded at 102db I believe.

    Check this out: http://www.josaka.com/Content/2000/Decibel-Chart.htm

    80db - Annoying (Seles?)
    90db - Very annoying. Can damage hearing after 8 hours exposure per day.
    100db - Can damage hearing after 2 hours exposure per day (jet taking off @ 500m, trainhorn @ 30m, Maria Sharapova @ 10m).

    So, playing Maria Sharapova may damage your hearing. Ha! Of course the damage done is probably based on constant exposure.
     
  15. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    The main word is "minor". The other word is "complain". I have faith that the human being is reasonable. Do you think that if players are making minor sounds that the officials will stop play and make them not utter a sound? Is that reasonable?

    It is not the minor sounds I am concerned with, it is the extreme sounds. That is what is causing the stir. I believe there are a lot of reasonable, common thought, and respectful people. I think there are more people that play with etiquette than not. So I believe the players and officials can govern what is too loud and what is not too loud. I really do.

    Let me ask you a question, if I asked you which noise is too loud, a scream or a groan, what would you say? If I said, screaming is not allowed, and groaning is tolerable until the point of complaint, does that make sense to you?

    Here is another spin on this. You say it is obvious that Screamapova is too loud. What makes you say that? She says it is necessary for her concentration, rythym, competiveness, focus, drive, spirit, etc...it is a vital aspect in how she plays tennis. Is this true? If it is true, have I missed something all these years? Why hasn't Federer come to this conclusion? Considering the level of noise from her, why hasn't the men's tour come to this conclusion? For that matter why hasn't the women's tour come to this conclusion? I am all for breathing right and focused play but why is it limited to a few? Should the few change or bend the rules?

    All sportsman will grunt and groan as they put their efforts into something, but that is personal and within themselves. People can agree that the person is putting forth. But nearly all humans realize when it is an exaggeration.

    Case in point, soccer. When a soccer player gets tripped, they fall to the ground in agony. They make me think "permanent injury" the way they roll around, screaming in pain, I think the worst has happened. But then once the medics come and the ref has issued his ruling, all of a sudden a miracle happens. He is up on his feet as if nothing ever happened.

    Does your common sense tell you something miraculous happened? Was one of the Doctor's named Jesus? Does the drama of pain displayed on the ground match the actual injury supposedly incurred as he is smiling and bouncing on his feet like a kid in a candy store? Does your mind tell you an exaggeration occured?
     
  16. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    It should be treated like any other class of potential distractions. It certainly shouldn't be tolerated as a non distraction like its been this era.

    Maybe give the players a heads up that in '08 its basically going to get you warned, then penalized.

    I can't stand the pros doing it, so you can imagine what I think having to play against or next to people into that.
     
  17. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    I think that on the men's side that 75% of the players that grunt loudly are doing it because of the effort they put into their shots (like Nadal or Blake). On the women's side, however, I believe only 10% are doing it because of the effort they put in to their shots (like Kuznetsova). This is a subject that can go either way but their's not a whole lot they can do on the men's side, but their is plenty of leeway on the women's side with players such as Williams sisters, Shriekapova, Seles, and other players who take it to such extreme lengths that they should be embarassed and ashamed for making SO much noise on the court.
     
  18. Frodo Baggins

    Frodo Baggins Semi-Pro

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    When Pro's do it >it's sexy I love it!!!! (Such a turn on for me to here my faves Grunt and moan) Maybe when I'm in Montreal next summer for tournament .I'll ask my faves to grunt and moan more often.. while I'm there!!!!;) So if you hear Moya,Or Gasquet or davide sanguinetti, or Ferrero Moan and grunt more then usual>(You'll know it was me);) And as for you guy's Moaning and grunting in this thread>Plzz keep it down-I don't like it when you guy's moan and grunt in this thread:eek: *(Covers ears).
     
  19. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Amen! Saw Seles being interviewed years ago and she said that she didn't ever want to be remembered as the player that shrieked...well....guess what? Papa and BB are both very wise and well spoken on this subject and whatever "they" say!!!! Got it?????
     
  20. a guy

    a guy Banned

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    Nothing compares with the silence of the ever graceful mr federer
     
  21. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    Exactly, nothing compares to him. So stop making comparisons and using him as the yardstick by which all other tennis players are measured.
     
  22. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Quite right...proving again TDog that it's not necessary to shriek to win!
     
  23. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    OK, I am tired of saying this: I NEVER SAID IT IS NECESSARY TO MAKE SOUND TO WIN.
     
  24. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    LOL
     
  25. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Now you do know if we start to answering this thread, soon it could lead to an x-rated version of moaning and grunting. :)
     
  26. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    You will find a pg13 rated version in ladies only:best biceps etc thread of which I am a proud contributor!!!!
     
  27. donnyz89

    donnyz89 Hall of Fame

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    yea, but sometimes when the game is tough, i feel it pumps me up and keep more more focused as the point goes on so i dont loose focus if i grunt a little louder. Of course i wouldnt grunt as loud as i can in the first set. but in a tiebreak, third set, 5 all, and im exhausted, my grunt is usually pretty loud so i dont loose focus mentally and physically.
     
  28. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    So YOU don't lose mental focus? So YOU don't lose focus physically? So if the point goes on, you start to grunt louder and louder so YOU don't lose focus? What are you some kind of moronic weak-kneed thinker? Don't have a brain scarecrow?

    Unfortunately, this is the poorest and lamest excuse to grunt. It is selfish, unecessary (despite what you talked yourself into), obnoxious, and should be called on you. It does not matter how long the match is or how your conditioning is, a point is a point, and if the other player senses you need to make louder and louder moans because you are losing it, they sould call it on you and tick you off. It would be awesome to watch you come unglued because you can't grunt loud. I would be the one standing in the crowd booing you and tell you "PLAY THE GAME YOU MORON". :)

    Doing this is stupid and doesn't do a damn thing except what you have talked yourself into thinking it does.

    What a lame excuse. My gosh, just can't believe this thread - lame screamer. "I grunt (sniff, sniff) cause I can't concentrate (whaaaaaaaa), I grunt because I feel an urge in my bowels (sniff, sniff), I can't stay focused so I grunt real loud and violate the rules so I can get focused again (whaaaaaa). But I don't need to dribble a ball and grunt, or swing at a baseball and grunt, or swing a golf club and grunt. I just like other people to think I am really into it and like to draw attention to myself because I don't have a brain."

    LOL! What a joke!
     
  29. donnyz89

    donnyz89 Hall of Fame

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    grow up BB and quit trying to get attention yourself by trying to act like a jackass. It helps me and I'm gonna keep doing it if its what it takes to win. if you dont like it, so be it, i dont care. and trying get attention? i do it when im playing with just a friend. quit acting like your god, no one cares. im sure plenty of your pawns/fans will defend you, and quite frankly, i dont care either, its a freaking forum. I post what i think you post what you think, and if you dont feel thats enough and have to attack others, let it be, maybe you need some attention on cyberspace.
     
  30. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    HEEEEEEEEEE, HAWWWWWWWWW

    But wait a second you retaliated, so in essence you also attacked? Need a brain to think about it?

    You're an idiot. "I cant play unless I groan loud (whaaaaaaaaaa)." What a little baby. Quit being an idiot on the court and hit the ball! LOL

    Keep it up cry baby. You have a weak mind, a weak heart, and a weak game. You are weak. You can't handle anything without self-destructing. Look at your comments, can't take a thing, YOU ARE UNRAVELING AND I GOT INTO YOUR WEAK MIND. LOL

    "I'm pretty sure your little pawns (whaaaaaaaaaa)". The usual response.

    Wait! that is what I can do to "psych" me up, I can say HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HAWWWWWWWW everytime I am in a tiebreaker, or have extended sets, or feel like I can't concentrate.

    I will say HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWW, everytime I hit the ball.
     
  31. donnyz89

    donnyz89 Hall of Fame

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    lmao bb, "Keep it up cry baby. You have a weak mind, a weak heart, and a weak game. You are weak." hahaha you keep telling yourself you are so much better, maybe someone will care. but hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. what a joke BB, legend? you keep trying to climb up the ladders mister, former uspta member. and dont be mad and act like a little child, your the one crying and trying to defend your own insecurities. oh, my unraveling mind? your good at coming up with stuff... w/e im done with this useless conversation, and oh btw, no one cares dude.

    edit: oh and why do you keep editing your posts? trying make it perfect so you sound cool? speak your mind, you already sound like a jackass.
     
  32. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

    BB: (sniff, sniff) I can't pay unless I Hee-Haw (sniff-sniff). I can't move unless I Hee-Haw (whaaaaa), I can't concentrate unless I HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!

    I always edit my posts moron. I always go back and add more thoughts, change words, try and pick up on spelling errors, lots of reasons moron.
     
  33. TennsDog

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    I just have one more thing to comment on: I think people need to keep in mind whether the sounds coming from the other side of the court are physically hindering them or just annoying them so they can't concentrate. If it were against the rulse to annoy someone, then people need to stop: talking to themselves, wearing ugly clothes, using cheap equipment, have bad haircuts, using poor technique, and whatever else people manage to do to annoy me. When someone annoys me enough, I have a hard time focusing as well. Does that mean I should make them stop doing it?
     
  34. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well I want to Hee-Haw. That is what helps me play better and I don't care what people think. If it is annoying to the other player they should get used to me Hee-hawing. If they can't, tough, it is my Hee-Haw.

    Is my HEEE-HAW sexy to Frodo Baggins? Is it equal to "my precious"? I want my Hee-Haw to be accepted on equal level as a grunt or a scream. It is my precious. MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNE!
     
  35. TennsDog

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    Ok, this thread has obviously gotten out of hand...
     
  36. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    LOL, you never cease to impress me with sound mind. :) I just can't get to you! You have to have a weakness. Something has to make you unravel. Now, which key is it?
     
  37. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    there is a difference between annoying versus distracting or hindering a player and the rules make room for that by defining distractions and hindrances not annoyances.

    I believe those grunts are learned behavior, and whose audible properties act as a distraction more than they act as a part of hitting a ball. They certainly have nothing to do with the essence of performing any tennis action or reaction on the court.
     
  38. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Yes, you're right TD, so please stop doing all of these things, ok?
     
  39. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Ooooh, also, well said SS! Learned behavior is exactly what it is!!!
     
  40. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I want to Hee-haw.
     
  41. mucat

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    Just words, when someone say you are annoying, it means it is hindering whatever they are doing at the moment, even if they are trying to sit down and relax. So in the ending, as long as the noise affects the opponent negatively, it is illegal.
     
  42. TennsDog

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    May the game begin.
     
  43. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I'll get you. I will sense when the guard is down. Then a word here, a word there...

    Donnyz unravelled on the first thread! I will get you. :)
     
  44. TennsDog

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    I'm mostly just curious as to why this particular thread is still being circulated. We've just been going in circles for the past page and a half.
     
  45. ilovecarlos

    ilovecarlos Professional

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    Because everyone responding has a strong opinion and will not waver on it...think it's called a difference of opinion???????
     
  46. TennsDog

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    I understand a difference in opinion, but why say it when it's already been said 3 times already. We know the opinions, and they're not changing, so we're not getting anywhere anymore.
     
  47. ubel

    ubel Professional

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    so after 10 pages of retort and counter-retort, this and that... why do pro players moan and grunt when playin tennis does it make them play better?
     
  48. ramseszerg

    ramseszerg Professional

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    1. it's habitual. when uve done it for the last 16 years in which ur game grew into the 7.0 level, ull feel like ur losing ur game when u stp doing it.
    2. it's a form of exhaling, and all coaches believe exhaling at contact is a necessary part of a stroke. So when it's not natural to a player, they might encourage grunting, and later it becomes habitual.
    3. Some coaches also advocate grunting when ur losing ur focus and grip on the match. they say it gets right back into it, hence some touring pros who start grunting when they didnt used to..
     
  49. TennsDog

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    I agree with the above post, but also want to add a couple things.
    Firstly, some players (pro or not) also do it unintentionally for no real reason, it does just happen naturally (please, no comments here. It's just a matter of fact.)
    Secondly, it is by no means necessary to make such sounds to play top tennis. It does seem to have some positive effects on some players, whether it's all mental or some physical or whatever. However, most players don't make much sound and many players don't like hearing it.

    There, can we all agree with this? Have I said anything overly controversial here? I think these last three posts pretty well summed up the entire thread (minus the juvenile, snide posts (yeah, I'm talking to you, Bill :)), close to inappropriate use of "moaning" and "grunting", and emotional retorts.)
     
  50. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    So if I say HEEEE-HAAAW for years, it will be okay and accepted? Although I agree it is something that someone gets used to, it is not necessary and therefore the rules should be enforced if a complaint by the officials or the other player comes about.

    What? You mean when a player can't exhale we suggest to grunt? Really? Who does that? Maybe that is where the problem is starting. Coaches are really encouraging players to grunt, moan, say Hee-haw, and scream? When? Where? Who? What? I would like to read this or see this - SOMETHING!!!

    LOL, what the hell? Are you serious? So when I lose focus, I can start saying HEEEEEE-HAAAWW? Are you frickin off your rocker? When, who, what, how, why?
     

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