Money being no object

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Centerforward71, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Ok here we go... Money is no object and here is what I want from my strings.

    1. As much spin as can be had.
    2. Average power is ok I don't need rocket launcher, that said I won't want a bed that's feels dead.
    3. Control I feel will be solved by number 1 for me, so if I can get plenty of spin then control should follow unless deflection becomes inconsistent from stringed.
    4. Durability for me is 4-6 hours of consistent play I don't care for more. My jaw drops when I see guys here looking for 30 hour strings !!!
    5. Feedback. Yes a string that gives me feedback of the stroke. Perhaps this can be encompassed with pocketing.
    6. Hybrids are ok but tell me why it gives me above.

    My play level is below. I have fast swing speeds so the above needs to fit that.

    I will tell you that so far the only thing coming close,is low tension poly meaning mid 30s. I've tried about 6 gut hybrid setups and so far garbage. No full bed gut yet and nothing tighter than 56 on the gut as main. Used pacific, performaxx and mamba. Not impressed with any so far and actually the best performance was the cheapest of the three although its manufacturing was not great.

    Oh yes and what tension and why that tension ?

    I am all ears.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
    #1
  2. 3fees

    3fees Hall of Fame

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    Lux Alu Power/ Babolat VS Touch

    or

    the most popular trending now:

    Yonex Poly Tour Pro 125 ----Polyester string which achieves greater durability, now used by the world's top players. It provides a comfortable feeling, suppressing shoulder and elbow fatigue

    or little less popular

    Yonex Poly Tour Spin 1.25( a maverick on spin)

    Yonex does not break the piggy bank..

    :mrgreen:

    I have a hybrid strung up and am testing it,,I'll write a review on this later,,,its synthetic gut mains/Lux ALU Power rough crosses ,tension is 55/51,,
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
    #2
  3. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    VS touch main or cross ?
     
    #3
  4. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Mains, always put gut in the mains.

    Putting gut in the crosses is the same as putting syn-gut/multi's in the crosses, except it'll cost you bank.
     
    #4
  5. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    I know that but was asking what he meant and why. I have alotttt of string experience. I string for about 15 good players plus myself so I'm aware of your point.
     
    #5
  6. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Because the smooth surface of polyesters act as rails for the gut to glide across. And some say the "oil" of gut further allows the gut to glide smoothly across the polyester crosses. I don't know how much of that "oil" really seeps out of gut (if any!), so that's up for debate.

    But the main point here is, smooth polys help gut mains to move about and snap around.
     
    #6
  7. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    What relevance does that have?
     
    #7
  8. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Full alu power all day long.
     
    #8
  9. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    How is it not relevant? I mean, it's really the only factor going into a purchase. If it's endorsed by the pros, it must be the greatest thing ever and one can expect similar results.
     
    #9
  10. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Babolat VS/Wilson/Prince natural gut mains with Ltec 4S cross - best combo of both worlds and most expensive hybrid setup out there.
     
    #10
  11. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Any updates on 4S tension loss or durability?

    Very tempted by 4S but reluctant to stray now from 4G crosses...they provide so much darn control. Even bought a Pure Storm GT to give it a try with VS/4G (only $80 now).
     
    #11
  12. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Full bed of Solinco Tour Bite 16L, 45lbs.
     
    #12
  13. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I haven't tried 4G as a cross to natural gut but in a full bed, I didn't find the string all that impressive.

    Ltec 4S has the best tension maintenance of all the polys I have tried including Signum Pro Poly Plasma which I had as the top poly for tension maintenance.

    Maybe when I get around to using 4G as a cross but rainy season has arrived so I won't be doing any more VS hybrid setups until late spring. Now it's time to switch over to multis.
     
    #13
  14. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    $80 for the racket or the strings? :)
     
    #14
  15. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    If it were only rated #1 by RSI, now that would be impressive.
     
    #15
  16. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Using that now strung at 42 playing at 38 and it's really nice but I've had better,but close.
     
    #16
  17. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    How much better is VS gut or Wilson over say pacific tough gut or prime. Explain other than because, why it's better. So far I am very unimpressed with the gut/poly hybrids.
     
    #17
  18. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Some people just don't like certain setup, I don't think it's a bad thing and certainly don't need to be "convinced" to like it.

    I, for one, don't care much for a full bed of gut.
     
    #18
  19. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Ah!!! Sorry but don't know what you're answering ??
     
    #19
  20. JDMasFCK

    JDMasFCK Semi-Pro

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    Tour Bite 17G 45LBS
     
    #20
  21. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Bhb7 in mains, strung like this: 80 center two, then next two 70, then next two 60 and last ones at 50lbs, then ping them out so they all sound the same sonically. Poly star energy crosses, first two down from top: 75, then 3rd:60, then down until the strings start to get shorter: 57lbs, then as they shorten: 62-65-70. When nubs of bhb7 wear off and the great spin subsides, cut them out before breaking.
     
    #21
  22. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    What I was saying is, you don't need to like gut/poly or any other setup just because it's preferred by other people. Play with what works for you.
     
    #22
  23. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    No, no, no. The Pure Storm GT is now $80. It's the 2009 PJ which is like more than the 2011 version.

    But VS/4G can get pricey too. The VS is around $42 and the 4G about $18. So, as this is a hybrid you get two frames done for $60 or $30 per frame plus labor. Labor around here is $10 to $20 per frame so it can be as much as $40 to $50 to get VS/4G installed in one frame.

    On the other hand, 4G doesn't lose tension like other polys and remains very comfortable for a long time as a cross. Nor does it saw through mains as fast as shaped polys.

    I found Pro Hurricane Tour has better spin and comfort but less control and higher tension loss. Otherwise it would be my other choice since its spin potential is huge with gut mains.

    Based on how 4G has performed as a cross with gut mains I would agree with Parasailing on use in full bed. I can't see using it that way. Spin potential not nearly as good as other polys and comfort would be an issue for sure.

    My favorite aspect of 4g is the amazing control it brings to a gut/poly hybrid, even in open patterns. And the tension loss is close to that of gut. Absolutley amazing.
     
    #23
  24. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    If $ is no object, why not stick with the low-tension poly beds you've done okay with and make more of an investment in your abilities... I know this is the string section, but you might be looking for your setup to perform beyond your capabilities - that can be frustrating! That gear of yours won't do a thing to the ball until you pick it up and swing it with decent technique, right?

    Don't get me wrong - I'm on your side, but it sounds like you could be looking for a solution where the "right" setup will probably only deliver a subtle difference in performance or feel. If sticking with a bed of loose poly can get the "gear distraction" out of the way for you, it might be easier for you to go out and shred it on a regular basis. If the gut/poly hybrids felt like garbage, it's hard to believe you're going to find an option with better performance and feel than what's already worked for you so far.
     
    #24
  25. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    I don't disagree with you and, I am not federer nor close but That said i do have pretty damn good technique. I've played colleges tennis and now play 4.5-5.0 and the limiting factor in my play is more my age and my fitness than mynstroke quality I can't help my age 41, and my fitness fluctuates as I do have a life outside of tennis.

    Also I do really like the low tension poly but I am always looking for something better for me and for those I string for. If I didn't have this attitude I would have never tried lowwww tension poly, specially since I was a high tension player 60+ even poly.

    Your point being about string over analysis hurting game. I agree also but I don't do that and blame strings for lack of something but also i am looking for the best setup for my profile and will never stop researching.

    One of the big reasons for this thread is my real disappointment with gut hybrids after not using gut in 10+ years and I feeli may be missing something that I am doing wrong not letting me get the gut performance I thought I would.

    So I'm not sure if your reply is a slight on me thinking I can buy technique with strings or something else but either way why would I not look for better?
     
    #25
  26. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Best gut poly hybrid is vs team/blackcode.
     
    #26
  27. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Because if you're already using Tour Bite 16L at 45lbs and are a 5.0 player, then the odds of you finding better spin from a string change are pretty much slim to none. The majority of pros are not using their stringbeds for the amount of spin they produce over other strings, but rather for the feel that they provide. It's something they're used to and is predictable for them. I mean, we have Djoker, Federer and Murray all playing gut/ALU hybrids, and then Rafa playing full RPM Blast, but even when he was using full Duralast, he was producing more spin than any of the top 3 (Fed's slice aside). Duralast is a terrible string, but it's what he was used to and he didn't need anything fancy to win with spin. Even now, Rafa's arsenal has not opened up due to RPM being his string of choice. For us mortals who don't have the gift of extreme RHS, the changing of strings will yield even less difference because we can get even less out of poly.
     
    #27
  28. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I was once able to purchase some sets of pacific tough gut uncoated. If I could find that string and use it fresh in the low 60's every time out that would be unmatchable. It also played tremendous with a poly cross, but if money was no object I would use a full job.

    The tough gut is a great string anyway but if you ever get a chance to use it in the uncoated version you would see what I mean. There is nothing out there that is even close.
     
    #28
  29. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Being a mere mortal I find every last bit of help counts since I CAN'T generate as much RHS as a pro. And trying to make clean contact with the ball while timing such a shot is especially hard for mere mortals.

    I've tried full poly and lots of various hybrids. None have compared to gut/poly in ease of spin generation. I can generate lots of spin with high string-to-string friction stringbeds such as full gut. It's just not as easy as with gut/poly.

    Gut/poly is also more comfortable than full poly. The downside is cost, especially for string breakers.
     
    #29
  30. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    To say that the spin strings don't produced noticeably more spin given the same stroke is not true for my game. I notice huge rpm differences between bhb7 and alu. Match play is all about feel, but it's also all about spin.
    I've used duralast. A durable harsh string, that felt "slippery". When Nadal switched, he clobbered people 2 and 1 like Fed on clay. He got way more rpms, even though it lasts for about 1/2hr., so do all the spin/nubbed strings, then the nubs wear off, but who cares if money is no object?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
    #30
  31. Seth

    Seth Hall of Fame

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    Klipper Tournament Nylon around 65 oughta do 'er.
     
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  32. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    If you read my first post I am not saying more spin I am saying top spin +\- AND let me tell you that a littleeeee more spin for me is a BIG deal. Now more spin losing all else is not what I'm looking for either I realize there is no perfect probably but I have characteristics that I want to maximize and some trade offs I won't take. The real root of this thread is my disappointment in finding those things in gut/poly hybrids. I did not use VS but did use pacific TG and performaxx and Mamba. Did not find one setup of about six to perform anywhere close to the low genesis twisted razor. The one thingbthatbthe low poly let's me down with at times is the tight touch placement shots which is hurting me against players on clay because my power is neutralized by surface. I played a 5.0 guy an hard court and won 3,4 and then lost on clay 2,3. He seemed to get one more shot back that would be winners on hard and I at times would be inpatient I thought that i would find that last part with the gut. I am considering two totally different setups for clay and hard courts. I have actually done this in the past. It's funny but so far my best performers are poly in mid 30s and poly or poly/syn gut 60+ most everything in between just not doing it for me. I have not tried gut at 60+ full bed I may do that next.

    Again this is a quest which will never end although I do settle in on setups for match play.
     
    #32
  33. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    How bout VS team and say SPPP ? And what tension are you referring to ?
     
    #33
  34. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Have you tried a poly at 35 ? If you haven't and you have decent strokes you should.
     
    #34
  35. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I've used SPPP on the crosses.

    Let's just say if I have options, SPPP wouldn't be one.
     
    #35
  36. sansaephanh

    sansaephanh Professional

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    Money no object: hire Federer as a hitting partner for life and buy Zheng Jie away from her husband. Then buy P1 so I will never have to worry about my frames again. Then hire brad gilberts cause he's from oakland. Then I'd become the official sponsor of the US open and won't allow commercials unless it involves tennis and beautiful women. Then I'd speed up the hard courts so isner can win a slam.

    Then I'd use bhsr17 cause I blew all my money on the above stated. Maybe tour bite, since I don't kill strings too fast anyways.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
    #36
  37. wmilas

    wmilas Rookie

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    Spin is a funny thing. When I became able to generate enough RHS I transitioned from a full multi setup to a gut/poly (pacific classic/msv co). Not satisfied I bought a stringing machine and tried what seemed like every poly out there in the main. I did not find anything better than gut/co for spin. I took the best poly and tried them in the cross with gut. The only thing better was lux ALU power rough. The problem was that it shredded the gut mains in under 2 hours.

    So for me gut/co for 8-12 hours before the gut goes. If you have deep pockets gut/ALU is slightly better.

    What is funny is that I developed a minor case of tennis elbow. Before things got out of control I switched to a gut/multi setup. So the funny thing is I now find myself generating almost as much spin. Its not quite as much but I am quite frankly shocked.

    This leads me to conclude that even though strings are important, and the end of the day form matters the most.
     
    #37
  38. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Polystar Turbo.

    It goes dead in about 4-6 hours, sometimes less.

    When absolutely fresh, it is the best spin you will find. String it normal to high tension range, it is powerful and the tension loss requires a higher starting point. You could try it at 38 also, I've never gone so low with Polystar. Tried it at 50, too springy for me.

    I would have 2-3 racquets strung per match if money were no object, and use it for one set per racquet. ALU is great and all, but the feel you get with Polystar is sweet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
    #38
  39. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Fresh ALU Rough is king IMO. Amazing spin/control with more then enough pop for higher swing speeds.

    Plus it only lasts like 4-5 hours tops so it's right in your range.

    -Fuji
     
    #39
  40. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Then truth be told, this thread is absolutely pointless, with all due respect. I promise you that you will not find measureable increases in spin beyond full Tour Bite. Maybe a few RPMs here or there on certain shots depending on tensions chosen, but what you're asking for does not exist. Tour Bite provides a simply preposterously heavy ball. One of my main hitting partners switched to one of his sticks strung with TB without me noticing. I realized after the first ball that the string was not the same. The ball was coming in faster, and kicking off the court which caused me to have to readjust to his shots. Not many strings can have such an effect when compared to the full poly he'd been using before. Now, to be fair, the TB stick was lighter so he was getting greater RHS, but only TB, Tourna BHBR and gut/Co Focus have caused opponents to tell me personally that my ball was hard to handle. Of the three, TB is the heaviest, gut/poly gives you the most overall spin, and BHBR is an in between.
     
    #40
  41. sansaephanh

    sansaephanh Professional

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    +1. Tour bite is a monster. I don't know how or why it is, but it beats out most textured strings in controlled spin. I'd use it if i wasn't afraid of the price.
     
    #41
  42. Centerforward71

    Centerforward71 Rookie

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    Genesis twisted razor just as good if not one up. I have two sticks with each. Both awesome but genesis just a tad morE spin at 38 than TB at 38 but not by much. PV your wrong it does exist I'm tweaking to find it and in a couple of days I am gonna report a new finding so stand by.....
     
    #42
  43. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    What makes blackcode such a good string says compared to Ltec 4S?

    The coating on tough gut made it feel stiff so is uncoated one softer and more elastic?

    If it makes you play better, it's already worth it:).

    VS Team and SPPP is decent but for me not as good as VS Team/Ltec 4S. SPPP is slightly underpowered as a cross but is one of the better cross strings to use due to good tension maintenance. Y

    For me strings are just fun to experiment with and some play slightly better than others but sooner or later you will be able to adapt. I having been play with gut poly hybrids but due to weather recently switched over to a multi and though it doesn't have as much control, you learn to adjust to it.

    I am still not understanding what the fuss is with Alu Power Rough. It does allow you to take a huge cut at the ball but it's such a stiff string and has such poor tension maintenance and doesn't feel good after a few hours.
     
    #43
  44. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    Excellent points, parasailing.
    Good to see you back.
     
    #44
  45. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    My friend, I couldn't be more right. It's not a matter of black and white, it's a matter of being practical. Asking what string or setup is going to give you better spin than one in the 95th percentile doesn't make much sense. You personally may find more spin with something else, as I said, but as a whole, TB is in the top-tier spin string group. The string you're asking for does not exist, as if it were, everyone would be talking about it. From the lowliest hacker up to the pros, Tour Bite is known to do one thing better than just about anything else: spin. I did not say it is the best spin string for YOU, but I was fully prepared to say that you will spend years trying to find better and you will never be satisfied. Since you realized that your quest would never end, I can't possibly understand how you can say that I'm wrong.
     
    #45
  46. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Since this thread is starting to heat up, can you at least tell us what you are testing - even if your results are not ready?
     
    #46
  47. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I haven't been gone just nothing that needs my input given all the other quality posters here on TT :).

    I am waiting to try 4G when the weather gets better and that will be it until the next great string comes around the corner.
     
    #47
  48. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    vs/bc feels different than vs/4s. Feel is very subjective, but somehow it feels like a clink rather than a thwock. Clink feels higher in frequency, and feels as if it has more control.
     
    #48
  49. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Yes, sure.....and Nadal is actually playing the 2013 Aero Drive.....:)
    It's just marketing, guys.
    They probably play something completely different than advertised.
    Nadal is not playing the RPM Blast at all but the package says he does....go figure.
     
    #49
  50. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I was being sarcastic, it's a shot at all the clowns who put all of their faith into equipment, and seek quick magical improvements.
     
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