Monogut ZX Findings

Discussion in 'Strings' started by mrc, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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  2. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Why? That's most likely to be a classic nylon synthetic gut type string. It's definitely not Zyex based.

    Polymides are used to produce nylon (synthetic gut) and kevlar. As Babolat say that that string is soft and powerful, you can rule out kevlar.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  3. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    ^It's not Zyex based yes. But it is a monofilament without polyester and aims for power and comfort. Much like ZX. Check the promotional video.
     
  4. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    ^ It sounds interesting but it's almost certainly going to be a nylon string, which they've made softer and more powerful to be more like a multilament.

    The problem with nylon is that unlike Zyex it stretches and doesn't stretch back. The other thing that's of note is that there's specifically no mention of spin. For a marketing machine like Babolat not to mention that would suggest that it's not a spin orientated string - again pointing to nylon. The video also focuses on comments from older people, which with the greatest respect to those involved, suggests a comfort orientated rather than performance string. Without a slippery coating, I'd question whether it would any better than any other nylon even when used only as a cross. ZX isn't perfect by any means either, but one area where it does work very well is as a cross with poly.

    I may well try it when it comes out but it's not a string that's particularly piqueing my interest.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  5. corners

    corners Legend

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    It's almost surely a synthetic gut string with a durable and slippery coating. The problem with coatings is that they wear off, and they wear off very, very quickly at the string intersections. But, who knows, maybe it's good. But being a nylon string it will be twice as stiff as Monogut ZX. That's the thing about ZX, it is much, much less stiff than nylon strings.
     
  6. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Well, wait and see then. I hope it's really something new. A cheap monofilament nylon would be disappointing.
     
  7. corners

    corners Legend

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    I actually prefer monofilament nylons (syngut) over multis because they don't fray and work well as crosses because they don't fray. Multis are kind of useless, IMHO, because they are held together by polyurethane glues that are sticky and gummy, and suck as crosses because the many little strands of nylon start to snap, fray and jack up the interstring friction. Plus, they are expensive. If I were looking for a multi string I would just bite the bullet and play full natural gut, but that's just me. Synguts are actually just a little stiffer than multis too. Gosen OG Micro 18, for example, is just a little stiffer than the premium multis but has decent durability and a crisp, rather than mushy, feel. On the other hand, a full bed of Biphase 18 plays awesome, for the hour before it snaps.
     
  8. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    For a sore elbow, you can tell the difference between a multi and a mono nylon string. For a healthy elbow, I agree. I'm still going to maintain that sliding mains are not the primary driver of spin with strings. I'll revisit that statement when I try out my favorite setup versus the smooth new Prince Poly in my new 100T ESP Tour.
     
  9. corners

    corners Legend

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    Of course sliding mains are not the primary driver; that would be string/ball friction, without which there would be no spin (the ball would slide right off the strings, clip the frame and dribble to the ground. :) ). But sliding mains that snap back before the ball has left them do add EXTRA (+5-40%, depending on string type, tension and pattern) spin, which for some players is quite nice, even addictive. That 16x16 will be useless to you unless the mains snapback freely, promptly and with vigor. If that doesn't happen, you will only encounter the inconsistency and lack of control traditionally associated with open patterns: high and variable rebound angle, strings stuck out of place, resultant "hotspots", etc. Best of luck with the new frame Mikeler!
     
  10. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    17 gauge ZX Pro lasted 4 hours for me on my PK Ki 5x. I broke it on a shank. It looked fresh otherwise. It's was my favorite setup on that racquet for the time that I had it, but it's not durable enough for me, even with a 16x20 string pattern. I hate to think how it would be like on my Prince Tour 98 ESP.
     
  11. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    How high have you guys gone up in tension on these strings? I've been trying the 1.27 mm ZX on my Tour 98 ESP 16x16, and I don't even think 60 will be enough.
     
  12. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I may try it out early next year. I'd probably start at 65.
     
  13. mrc

    mrc Rookie

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    I would string it at what you string Nat Gut at. Its about identical power level just more spin potential.
     
  14. KaiserW

    KaiserW Semi-Pro

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    Why not try it in 16 gauge? That's all I use, if I go to 17 gauge I break strings too quickly.
     
  15. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    1.27 mm is 16 gauge. I did the math. If I like it at 56 on my 16x20 frame, then 56 x 20 / 16 = 70 !

    Hmm...I'll see how high I can go. Maybe that's why they recommend poly.
     
  16. Attila_the_gorilla

    Attila_the_gorilla Professional

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    At my las stringjob, my stringer went quite a bit lower than I asked him, maybe used a different machine. My previous stringjob was X-One 18/ Monogut ZX 17 in a Purestorm LTD GT, at 59 lbs.

    This time it's a fair bit lower, NRG2 mains and ZX crosses.

    Absolutely loving it for doubles, much better feel and touch, will stay low-ish in the future.
     
  17. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    For a Pure Storm Ltd, that's probably fine. Your strings are very close. What works on my PK Ki 5x 16x20 isn't working with my Prince Tour 98 ESP 16x16. These ESP racquets need very tight strings if you're not using poly.
     
  18. SCRAP IRON

    SCRAP IRON Professional

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    This string is so powerful that it may be the closest thing to gut. But the power comparison is where it ends! I could not hit a drop shot or dial in a lob. I got destroyed by my opponents' overheads when I threw up some lobs!
     
  19. Don't Let It Bounce

    Don't Let It Bounce Hall of Fame

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    There have been posts that reported favorably on Monogut ZX's tension maintenance, and it certainly looks interesting as a poly alternative that trades a little spin for, hopefully, a lot of useful life.

    But before I make an expensive test myself, I am having trouble reconciling the reports of tension maintenance with TW's test results: Total tension loss (after stringing, 1-min rest, 20 hits to stabilize string bed, and the test impacts themselves) on a fast-swing test was comparable to the worst polys:

    strung at 62 lb >>> lost 23 lb
    strung at 51 lb >>> lost 24 lb
    strung at 40 lb >>> lost 26 lb

    Is anyone here aware of artifacts or limitations in the test protocol that would account for results like this when thoughtful posters are reporting it as just the opposite?

    (To clarify, I am already aware that a given physics formula is a simplification of the many things that happen on a tennis court. I am hoping less for "science bad, play test good" answer and more for a "This is where this test gives misleading results about this string" one.
     
  20. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Monogut ZX has a settling period where it loses tension within the first 24 hours after stringing because the string stretches so much. After it has settled, it maintains tension very well. Tension loss due to hitting the ball is much better than polyester, thus it last longer.
     
  21. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    here is a poster named travellerjam or so who mentioned that he will pre stretch ZX Monogut very hard (till it doesn't stretch anymore with his whole bodyweight). he says after the the string has a great tension retention but I'm not sure that doesn't kill the string.
     
  22. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    How fast the Zyex notches and "locks" until it does not almost move anymore?

    Users? Julian?

    KR
     
  23. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    I have it as a cross to Kevlar and the kevlar is loosing...
     
  24. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Pre-stretching this string is not a bad idea. A lot of users find this the best way to tame the power. It should also help with the tension loss settling period. It won't kill the string. There should still be more power there than you are getting from poly.
     
  25. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    It would depend on how you string it and what tension you use. I am not aware of any significant notching in a full bed of MZX, but I'm sure someone out there can contradict me on that.

    Are you looking for notching?
     
  26. Chas

    Chas New User

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    I've got two (Angel TC95 16x19) racquets with about 40 hours each with a full bed of Mongut ZX in each at around 53 lbs - one's the red and one's the natural. I've just been over them with a magnifying glass and can't find any notching.

    The strings do tend to develop some locking i.e. they'll stay out of position rather than spring back, but as far as I can tell that's due to wearing away the shiny exterior layer that ZX seems to have. A quick application of Vaseline or similar once a week seems to pretty well eradicate that. I've occasionally tried a similar lubrication on multi's and poly/multi hybrids, mostly in the hope of helping them last longer in Scotland's occasionally :???: damp climate, but to no noticeable effect. I think that's because these multi's are roughing up at the surface too much for that kind of thing to work. Zx seems to stay much smoother (it looks like a plastic type of material) so a thin lubricant on the surface has a useful effect.

    Perhaps the next version of ZX will improve the surface membrane's endurance.


    Sorry for the ramble. Not sure if that answers your question ?
     
  27. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    are you from ashaway?

    if you are wouldn't it be a good idea to make a stiffer less elastic/powerfull zyex string (by adding other stuff and maybe pre stretching in the production) to simulate poly?

    I'm not sure if I get that right but with the slippery surface (to allow string movement/snapback) of zx that could make a very durable poly alternative which creates the spin but stays elastic longer and doesn't "die" as fast.

    I'm not saying that it should replace the zx but it might be an idea for a new string.
     
  28. Don't Let It Bounce

    Don't Let It Bounce Hall of Fame

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    Thanks, Julian. I was hoping it was something like that.
     
  29. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    Chas and Julian, thank you!

    Yes, i am looking for a "locked" feeling of the string.

    Seems ZX does not lock as easy as nylon.

    I will try to lock ZX after Christmas with my "pliers-method".

    KR
     
  30. Chas

    Chas New User

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    Probably a language problem on my part, but I hadn't realised you were referring to "locked" as a positive thing . There's much discussion on here about strings remaining free to slide and snap back as a desirable thing - to help produce spin etc. So I was trying to address that point. Sorry if I misunderstood.



    I'm suprised that you find ZX "dies fast". I would have said, just from my own experience, that one of its strongest points is that it doesn't die fast. For me it remains playable a lot longer than the Poly's I've tried and stays unbroken and playable longer than any multi I've tried. I take it your experience is different ?
     
  31. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    NO. You gave me some useful informations.

    ZX is a high elastic string while holding the tension very well.

    You are right, most want a snapping back string. I want the opposite.

    I will buy some sets and treat it with a pliers after a hitting session. (I am sure, also ZX snapping back action i will not like).

    But ZX (peek) seems not to notch easy, so i am curious if i can "lock" it.

    Good work by Ashaway to offer something new and different and not another "wonder-poly".

    KR
     
  32. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    I like your ideas! To make the string stiffer to simulate poly would likely cause the string to lose it ability to maintain tension. It is exactly this elasticity that allows MZX to be so durable.

    I am reading between the lines, but it would seem you feel the trouble with MZX is a lack of control? A good pre-stretch can help overcome this. We did discuss a factory pre-stretch as you mentioned, but decided to leave the string as is and allow those who prefer the pre-stretch to do their own and those who prefer the extra pop to string it right up without the pre-stretch.

    Another way of getting the control you desire is to find a good hybrid combination. There are plenty of good hybrid suggestions in this forum. Also, we will soon be introducing to the market two of our own pre-packaged hybrids.
     
  33. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    the die fast comment was in regard to poly.
     
  34. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    unfortunately I was only able to hit with zx for a short time. a friend of mine has it on his racket and I liked it. I could generate a lot of spin. I cannot really say a lot about the power issue because he is not on my playing level and I only hit like 50% power to play some rallies. I felt the string was quite high powered but at that speed controllable. some feedback here says that it is quite well powered.

    do you have feedback by very good players (5.5+) about how they deal with that?

    I will however likely get a set or two in the future to test it against players of my level. the pre stretching is a good idea.

    I understand the elasticity is important for the durability. maybe just making it a little bit stiffer would retain the playability but harness the power. not sure if that is possible though, I'm no engeneer.

    could you use zx instead of gut in a poly/gut hybrid?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
  35. julianashaway

    julianashaway Rookie

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    Some very good players like this string a lot using a pre-stretch.

    Poly/ ZX hybridization is a good idea. Many players have had positive reports on this set-up. ZX does provide a lot of the positive playing characteristics of gut. Specifically, the power and tension maintenance. Also, cheaper than gut. Just don't expect it to feel like gut. It is still plastic, not animal intestine.
     
  36. Don't Let It Bounce

    Don't Let It Bounce Hall of Fame

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    If you want the elasticity and tension maintenance of Zyex with higher string-string friction than MZX, but without the cost of natural gut (which is the gold standard in all three categories), Ashaway Dynamite and Dynamite Soft might be your cup of PEEK. Add some string savers – the cheaper plastic Tourna kind, not the slicker Teflon Babolat kind – for even more friction. You'll be starting fires on your string bed in no time.
     
  37. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Actually, if the spin potential of ZX is bothersome, I'd play with X-1 Biphase pre-stretched. From what I read, the advantage of ZX is that it spins more than gut while being near as powerful, holds tension better than poly while spinning very decently, and doesn't cost as much. However, if the spin does not matter, very, very powerful multis like Biphase do exist.
     
  38. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    Thanks.
    I forgot totally about the peek strings with outer wraps by ashaway and bow brand.

    I will buy some and write about it.

    Nat gut is sadly not so nice in humid clima.

    KR
     
  39. Attila_the_gorilla

    Attila_the_gorilla Professional

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    Guys, the 17g Monogut ZX has broken during stringing twice in the last 6 or 7 restrings. Two different stringers too.

    What extra precautions should they take when working with this string?
     
  40. marco forehand

    marco forehand Rookie

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    If the string broke when tying off that means they have to change technique. I don't use a starting clamp to grip the string, I tie it off by hand (after adding 10%+ to the last two mains) (I don't use ZX as a cross)
     
  41. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Did they break it during the pull or during tie-off?

    I have never broken it during a pull and I've gone as high as 70 lbs with the 1.27mm version when pulling the end strings, but I am always careful not to give any string a sudden pull.

    I have broken it while tying off. Even though the string is soft, it is also brittle. This can happen if you use pliers to tie it off and you're not careful. Yes, it can be done with pliers if done carefully, but if these stringers are prone to breaking it, they might have to do the tie-offs by hand.
     
  42. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    How do you tie-off by hand without pliers?
     
  43. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    You just do it. It's really not that bad. I wouldn't do it with a sharp poly, but ZX is smooth. If there is very little string left, you might have to use pliers, but with the elongation you get from this string, it's a rare occurrence.

    BTW...I just thought of another possibility. If the clamps or the gripper are too tight, this could also lead to the string breaking. I haven't had that problem, but stringers who don't check might have that problem.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
  44. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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