More brilliance from the USTA

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by gully, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    #1
  2. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    good grief give it up USTA, you wanted nothing to do with ITA and now your trying to ruin college tennis, just pathetic.
     
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  3. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    For matches where there are enough courts to allow it I like the warm up change proposed to speed things along. Moving doubles takes "team" out of the match the current doubles first format is outstanding. Need 5 out of 9 to win - and where the points come from is all equal. 3 dubs is just as important as 1/2 singles = team.
     
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  4. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    This is so annoying, I go to college tennis ties pretty much every weekend in the spring and this would take away from my enjoyment considerably (although I do like the no-ad scoring in dubs).
     
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  5. marco forehand

    marco forehand Rookie

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    Does the USTA meddle into everything tennis because the want to "wet their peaks" or do they believe, despite all evidence to the contrary, that they actually bring something positive to the table ? Are they malevolent or obtuse ?
     
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  6. Kirijax

    Kirijax Hall of Fame

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    The USTA has pretty much destroyed pretty much everything they have come into contact with. They need to just step back and let the ITA do their thing. This is another horrible decision and would take a huge bite out of the team concept in college tennis. One of the most fun things about college sports is the team atmosphere and this would really change all of that. I'm really thinking the head honchos of the USTA are idiots.
     
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  7. Lack

    Lack Rookie

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    Word. They are simply ruining everything...
     
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  8. TimeSpiral

    TimeSpiral Professional

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    I read the whole letter and saw nothing that indicated wholesale destruction.

    They're a governing body attempting to address an issue and using policy to do it. I can understand initial reactions, and people thinking it wouldn't work, but should we wait for the results to see what happens?

    I hope it's successful and wish them and the participants luck.
     
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  9. goldy0084

    goldy0084 Rookie

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    The whispering about this is that is supposed to be played through the conclusion of the Indoors. I heard about one more experimental format getting kicked around where they play dubs to 5 with a breaker at 4 and "one-ad" scoring. Then, you play singles to 6, but play a breaker if it's 5-5.

    This is all really boils down to dollars and cents. It's not whether or not anyone will watch college tennis on TV (because most of us are not naive enough to think there would be a HUGE viewer base). But, I do believe they (AD's and those involved) are banking on money being collected from paid advertising when they put all sports (tennis included) on school "networks"...ie: "The Longhorn Network," "Gator Network."

    Regardless of what happens, I think there are better ways to slightly change the format. I would prefer to just play to stoppage at 4. The SEC does it already when they go Friday/Sunday conference trips. If it really boils down to $, then the small schools and coaches are the ones who are going to benefit the least...at least financially.

    I also feel like the we want to change a formula that has done pretty well for the past 20+ years without too many major tweaks. Do you think people at ATP are looking at college and saying wowwww look at their amazing creativity! Let's change our whole scoring model!! I find this too funny. Just my opinion.
     
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  10. goldy0084

    goldy0084 Rookie

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    Hahha well what do you know....

    "I would like to update you concerning recent discussions about the Division I dual meet format, and the decision made last week by the ITA Division I Operating Committee.



    As you know, the past academic year we dedicated a great deal of time to this issue, and the ITA Operating Committee decided at its spring meeting in Champaign to "tweak" the current format by mandating that (effective August 2013) the doubles pro-set will consist of a tiebreaker at 7-all rather than at 8-all (the NCAA tennis committee has agreed to use this same format in the 2014 NCAA Team Championships).



    Late last spring, the USTA created an "Advisory Group" that included eight NCAA Division I Athletic Directors from a variety of conferences and regions, as well as NCAA staff. As explained in a letter that the USTA sent a week ago to Conference Commissioners and SWA's: "the {goal} was ... to help improve the college tennis product and experience - for players, for fans, for coaches, and for television... and to make the college tennis season and match more exciting and relevant."



    This advisory group, after several conference calls in August, met in NYC during the US Open. It has recommended that a new dual meet format be experimented with during the USTA College Match Days in the spring of 2014. The format suggested by the Advisory Group is as follows:

    Singles first. The singles matches will come first; numbers 1-6 singles will be played to start each team dual match. The integrity of singles will remain the same. They will be best-of-three sets, worth one point each toward the team result in the dual match. As is currently the case, four points are required to win the team match.
    Doubles tiebreakers. In the case of a (3-3) tie after the singles results, then three doubles matches would be played using 10-point super tie-breakers to decide the outcome. This would create college tennis' version of "overtime." The team that wins at least two of the three doubles matches receives the decisive point and wins the match.
    "Clinch" format. Once four points have been reached ("clinching" the match), the remaining matches shall not be completed.
    Team warm-up. Players will be expected to warm-up with their own team prior to the scheduled match time and will not warm-up against their opponent before the first point is played.

    The ITA was not involved in the discussions of the Advisory Group, but it is our understanding, based on a number of meetings with USTA staff during the Open, that the primary goal of this format change would be to make the dual meet time sensitive (ideally less than three hours in length), and in doing so, create a team event that would be more TV friendly and more attractive to the tennis fan.



    Over the past several weeks we have had extensive format discussions with a number of ITA Coaches who were in town during the Open, as well as many phone calls with coaches not able to make it to NYC. While many of the ITA coaches agreed with the goal of the USTA and the Advisory Group of finding a dual meet team format that might prove more time sensitive (and as such more viable for TV and more fan friendly), most of the coaches were very concerned that an inevitable consequence of the proposed format would be to reduce very significantly, if not entirely, the amount of doubles played in team competition. In fact, when Mike and Bob Bryan were asked about this during the Open, they stated that if this proposed format had been used during their Stanford career, for at least one full year they would have never played a doubles match in any of the team matches (and this was confirmed by their coach, Dick Gould).



    In follow up to these wide-ranging conversations, the ITA Division I Operating Committee held a highly-focused conference call. After a great deal of vigorous discussion, the committee voted to mandate experimentation in the winter of 2014 (January/February) with a new dual meet format that will represent a dynamic change from the current team format. The new ITA format will be time sensitive (under three hours), but still emphasize the importance of doubles in the college team match. The following is the ITA dual meet format for experimentation:

    The dual meet will consist of three doubles matches played first (worth a total of one point), followed by six singles matches, each individual match worth a point. Four points are required to win the team match.
    The three doubles matches will each consist of one set to 6, with one-ad scoring and a tie-breaker at 5-all. Once a team has won two doubles matches, the remaining doubles match will stop (NB. this "clinch" policy is the current rule in the ITA National Indoor Team Championships and the NCAA Team Championships).
    Six singles matches will follow the doubles, each singles match two out of three sets, with each set using one-ad scoring, and a tie-breaker at 5 all.
    Once four points have been reached ("clinching" the team match), the remaining matches shall not be completed (as in the doubles point, this "clinch" policy is the current rule in the ITA Indoor Team Championships and the NCAA Team Championships).
    There will be no warm-up against opponent before the first point is played in doubles and singles: players will be expected to warm-up with their own team prior to the scheduled match time (it should be noted that this "no warm-up against opponent" rule is tentative: a final decision about this will be made by the ITA Operating Committee at its annual meeting this December).

    It should be understood that the ITA Operating Committee is fully supportive of the USTA College Match Day concept as a promising initiative to create greater exposure on TV, increase the local fan base for college tennis and provide a valuable opportunity to experiment with format.



    At the same time, the ITA Operating Committee strongly supports a dual meet format that keeps doubles as an integral part of the team match. As already explained, we are mandating extensive experimentation with the ITA format in the first two months of 2014, and we are recommending to the USTA that it also experiment with the ITA format during some of the College Match Days.



    In closing, I would like to thank the members of the ITA Division I Operating Committee, as well as other key coaches, for all of the time and energy that they have devoted to these very important discussions. And I would also like to make it clear that the long-standing partnership between the ITA and the USTA remains very important, and we will continue to work together in our shared mission of growing and promoting college tennis at all levels.
     
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  11. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    ^^
    Sorry to be dense--and thanks for the update!--but what is "one-ad"? Is that the same as what I always knew as "no-ad", i.e. first to four points, with a single clinching point at three-all (receiver's choice of serve)? Or is it play to what would be four-all, and then a single clinching point? (And if it's the latter, is this a scoring mechanism used in any other competitive situation? I can't say I've heard of it....)
     
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  12. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    Sigh. Does anyone actually think a single person will NOW attend a match when s/he wouldn't have before, because of the different scoring system? Seriously? Or that the tv opportunities, audiences, and dollars will open up as a consequence?
     
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  13. goldy0084

    goldy0084 Rookie

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    one ad is if you go to ad once and get back to deuce, the next point is sudden death, receiver's choice
     
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  14. George Opelka

    George Opelka New User

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    No. Yes. No.
     
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  15. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    It would save all of 5 min. The problem is different courts play different. You need to warm up on the actual court you're playing on. 5 min come on. Warm up is also a time to get a look at some of the shots you're up against so you can start to form a strategy. Dumb
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
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  16. Erman

    Erman Rookie

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    Just "make work" for the USTA bureaucracy in order to justify their salaries, travel expenses and hotels so they can meet again......... and once again milk the USTA membership fees and gravy train for another "meeting" and on and on. Pathetic
     
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  17. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    You are probably right but my experience is both my kids played d 3. At times the coaches are overwhelmed and the warmup, particularly in the lowest ladder matches tend to go on forever..

    At d 1 level you are likely right = dumb.

    Unclear to me is how the usta can tell the NCAA how to run a tennis match. No doubt in my mind every d 3 match I have seen the coaches would tell usta to go pound sand.
     
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  18. goldy0084

    goldy0084 Rookie

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    There seems to be a bit of confusion here, so hope I can clarify some things. There are 3 governing bodies that are offering different formats: USTA, ITA, and NCAA.

    The USTA-- is offering to pay some of the top-ranked teams to play a College Game Day that will be televised. Their format is singles first, then dubs 10pt breaker shootout if the singles is split. They pick the teams from application and fund the event.

    The ITA- They want the crazy one-ad scoring and 6 game dubs sets, etc. They are mandating this be played during the ITA Kick-Off event and the team National Indoor.

    The NCAA- will continue to use the same format of playing to stoppage at it's championship events, with no major scoring changes.

    I do not know if the ITA can actually mandate that teams play the new format during JAN/FEB dual matches before conference. From my understanding, you can play whatever format you agree upon and I guess if there is a disagreement, the head referee must intervene.
     
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  19. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    No, some things are so stupid that we should speak up before we wait for the results. If the ATP wants to make singles matches shorter by having a 10-point tiebreaker instead of a third set, and no-ad scoring in the first two sets, those who think it would be a lot less enjoyable to watch should speak up now instead of waiting a couple of years. Ditto for stupid ideas in college tennis.
     
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  20. cali_tennis_machine

    cali_tennis_machine New User

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    As the quality of tennis in college continues to improve so will its popularity and crowd support. College tennis is producing more pro players now more than ever because it is being perceived as the best stepping stone to college tennis. If they continue to move the format away from pro tennis, college tennis will no longer be perceived as the best stepping stone. BTW at major tournaments people buy tickets to watch a hole day of tennis....
     
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  21. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    Clark

    I wish you were this concerned when USTA was gutting junior tennis.
    Instead, you consistently tried to rationalize the insane behavior of the USTA and chastise all of us "insane tennis parents".

    But now that it's your ox being gored, you seemed to have developed the passion you once berated me for. Singing a different song, so to speak.

    I really wish all the college tennis supporters who are so worked up now could have stepped up to the plate with the Junior tennis issues last year, but most choose to stand on the sidelines or actually defend the USTA bizarre changes which make these college changes seem like the definition of rational.

    So, part of me says you reap what you sow. You invited them into your house, prepare to suffer the consequences.
     
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  22. Vicious Vik

    Vicious Vik Semi-Pro

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    The USTA is the worst tennis organization in the world. Yes some 3rd world countries really have some bad ones, but if you consider the resources we have in the USA, the USTA is the worst.
     
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  23. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Please document where I ever did any such thing? In fact, I spent a lot of time gathering statistics that showed that early round matches at Kalamazoo are often very competitive, debunking the claim that we can shorten these big tournaments because the first couple of rounds are all blowout matches, anyway. I also proposed alternatives, like seeding the top 16 guys into a later round, so the USTA does not have to chop the whole tournament just to keep their "elite" from staying too many nights at Kalamazoo hotels. I also pointed out that the supposed problem of missing school does not apply to the National Clay Courts nor to Kalamazoo, which are held in the summer, so the USTA rationale for changing those two tournaments did not make sense. I cannot recall one post I made that defended the massive USTA changes to junior tennis.
     
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  24. kme5150

    kme5150 Rookie

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    I went to the invitational at Notre Dame this weekend. They were playing the new proposed changes of one-ad and tiebreakers at 5 all in singles. I didn't care for it. It takes away from the athletic grind of the game. On the 3rd day it rained so they went indoors and played 3rd set tiebreakers, which I can't stand either.

    They played full 8 game pro sets for doubles, which was a nice surprise.

    I am sure it will save some time when it comes to dual matches but it definitely takes away from the game.
     
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  25. corbind

    corbind Professional

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    Did I read this right
    • 6 singles matches each 1 point to winnner
    • No doubles will be played unless the singles split/tie 3-3
    I'm not privy to the stats but how often do singles tie?
     
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  26. George Opelka

    George Opelka New User

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    I don't have a kid that plays college tennis so I'm not too amped up over the topic, however; there are too many bright minds in our sport and we should be able to come up with an amicable solution that improves college tennis.

    Doubles isn't a priority anywhere in our competitive system which doesn't help the situation. Other than Wayne Bryan nobody seems to care about promoting junior dubs. Players don't play doubles, so coaches don't coach doubles. In Florida, doubles more often than not are played after singles. And if junior already lost in singles, defaults in doubles are not uncommon.

    I'd love to see junior tennis incorporate the WTT format as part of the season. Today, it's more of an elective or an afterthought. If it was restructured properly I think it would really catch on and make kids better tennis players.
     
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  27. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    The potential changes to college tennis are not about improving it. It's about more TV/Web Casting ad revenue. The NCAA wants to develop all their sports, broadcast them and sell more advertising.Their object it to shorten the time it takes to play a dual tennis match so that it fits a timeframe they want to meet. I think they are shooting for 3 or 3.5 hours. Something like that but less time than the current average dual match takes. Not saying that makes it right, just telling you what I know.
     
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  28. goldy0084

    goldy0084 Rookie

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    Amen. Someone who knows what is going on. Yes, it is all about dollars and sense. Oh, but tennis will never get on TV...impossible...says the coach from Podunk U. This change is benefiting about 25 schools and widening the gap between the mid-majors and little guys...all under the guise of some bs like "student-athlete welfare," etc, etc, blah blah blah. It all comes down to money. We are entering the digital age and you are either on the gravy train or left in the dust. The college arms race is for real and everyone wants to find ways to stack more chips. Goshdammit I despise the NCAA. What a total fraud.
     
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  29. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    It's not the TV they care about for tennis and the minor spots. It's the webcast. They can all webcast and through the NCAA there's advertising dollars there no matter the one event audience size. The NCAA will aggregate the total audience size for all the minor sports and that will be what they pitch to potential ad buyers.
     
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  30. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    My coach (dIII) loves doubles. It's virtually all he teaches. His idea is that most teams focus on singles, so their doubles will be weak. If we can win 2-3 doubles matches, it takes a lot of pressure off of the singles matches. And of course, most college players were singles players in high school, so we're fine in that department regardless.
     
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  31. Bdarb

    Bdarb Hall of Fame

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    You play the same scoring as I did in d3. The proposed changes are coming to scoring which if I understand correctly, after all of the doubles matches are played, the winner is allotted ONE team point for their efforts. When playing six singles players you would have to win 4 instead of three which isn't all that different relatively speaking.

    In the format we played, yes, winning the majority of doubles alleviates a serious amount of pressure to singles especially if you don't have a ringer or two in the top spots.



    As a whole I think these changes are ludicrous. One has to ask themselves to evaluate the virtue of a collegiate sport? If it is as a revenue generator for your institution (or business, which is a terrible way to look at a learning institution) then I guess you have to look at the how to make it fit TV etc. But if the point of a college sport is to compete at the highest level for your school in a sport you have been training in for years.. then how is making students play a different game with different scoring rules reasonable? Do you think there was a single d3 school in my conference who had a coach AD or faculty member who was concerned with match length times or tv revenue to the athletic program? This would alter everyone including those before or after it for the sake of a couple greedy schools milking some cash out of a sport when nearly all of those schools could easily supplement any losses with their gargantuan football or basketball programs anyway. The fact that they can't offer scholarships to enough kids is a crime when the second back up kicker at Texas has probably been courted and not paid a red cent since entering for his education..
     
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  32. The Dawgs

    The Dawgs New User

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    I tend to disagree. There is a huge difference having to win 4 singles matches rather than only 3! The doubles point is huge in big time college matches!
     
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  33. Bdarb

    Bdarb Hall of Fame

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    I agree with that sentiment, I only meant that the format that I and the other poster played, the doubles were worth more relatively speaking.
     
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