More entertaining: S & V matches or today's matches?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by bladepdb, Jan 11, 2009.

?

Which style of play would you find most entertaining to watch?

  1. S & V players going at it all day (Sampras, Edberg, Becker, Rafter, etc.)

    64 vote(s)
    53.8%
  2. More baseline oriented players (Murray, Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, etc.)

    55 vote(s)
    46.2%
  1. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    The title is pretty self explanatory. I just want to settle this once and for all :)

    I was surprised how many people on these forums seem to think S&V is a more enjoyable/interesting style of play. I personally get bored watching an old Sampras match. It's not that it isn't rich with technique, but rather it's just boring to watch. Serve, ace...or 1-2 punch. That's probably 80% of the points in those matches.

    In today's matches, it's exciting watching people play at the baseline IMO. You never can tell what direction one person will take the ball to or how the opponent will respond to a quick change in direction once a rally is started. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean I want to watch Nadal all day pouncing from the baseline...I still enjoy a game with variety like Murray's (just one example).

    So that's my two cents on the matter. I'm NOT arguing which is a better style of play, but simply which is more "entertaining" to watch? If your job was to watch tennis 8 hours a day and you got paid for it, would you watch S & V players go at it or more baseline oriented players like the top players today?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2009
    #1
  2. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    More baseline oriented players and it isn't even close. I can't stand S&V.
     
    #2
  3. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,129
    Location:
    New York
    What 's entertaining is versatility (and strategic intelligence and adaptability). Systematic serve and volley is as tedious as interminable monotonous baseline rallies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2009
    #3
  4. tacou

    tacou Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,248
    ^ bingo.

    anyone who plays their game well I enjoy. I love watching Safin/Fed at AO05, in my opinion the greatest display of baseline bashing, but get a guy like Robredo playing Ferrer and jeeeez I fall asleep.
     
    #4
  5. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,164
    Location:
    Caught in No Man's Land
    Many people didn't get bored of the likes of Sampras because of his serve and volley, they got bored of his big serve!

    I agree 100% with this post.
     
    #5
  6. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    These are characteristic of today's modern game as exhibited by the top players (Murray, Federer, Djokovic, Tsonga, Nalbandian, Safin, Hewitt(?), and to a certain extent, Nadal, come to mind).
     
    #6
  7. The Pure One

    The Pure One Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    210
    Today's matches by a lot!

    To me S&V in the late 80”s and 90’s was resp. for the decline of the game popularity. The ATP perceived it, but acted too much late in supporting more slow-medium surfaces tournaments and slowing the game. Wimbledon also knew it and changed the type of grass and opened the cans of balls weeks before the tournament in order to slow the game a little bit. Now I’m enjoying Wim.

    S&V and tennis in quick surfaces is simply boring to watch, no matter how you try to put it or try to sell it. At least, it surely is for the occasional spectator and the beginner or developing player, who by the way do not play that kind of game at the clubs. To me S&V tennis is just SUPER one-dimensional. Do you like to watch lots of games won by the guy who just served ace after ace after ace? Or by seeing a player that just served and made a point by volleying too easy because of a weak or “sitting duck” return? S&V is like having time out or an official in a basketball game stopping the game every two seconds! The S&V game always needed a baseliner to make the game watchable. Sampras needed more Agassi than Agassi needed him.

    Forgive me but, I rather see a painted wall dry, some people throw some darts, play cards, dominos, etc., than having a “competition” (if you can call it that way) between two powerful S&V’ers and almost NO rallies. I mean, a sport is supposed to be about a confrontation or competition between two of parties or more. Quick surfaces and S&V means a one-dimensional and boring sport. It is not a tennis game, is just a serve competition. That is why nobody is claiming the return of ultra fast courts, except Pete Sampras in his exo games. And do not get me wrong, slow pace game in clay (like the one two or three decades ago) is also equally boring.

    And for those who like to see ace, after ace, after ace: Is this your GOAT? A player that possesses a huge and consistent serve (145+ MPH) and nothing more (like a super or polished Ivo Karlovic) and he goes out and win 15 GS (10 Winby and 5 USO), but never won a single clay court, rebound ace or slower court tournament, IS HE THE GOAT JUST BECAUSE HE WON MORE GS (with that type of game)? Not to me. To be the GOAT you must be able to be the top player playing the game on ice AND in sand. Not in just one type of (super fast) surface.

    Thank God we have clay and other slow-medium court tournaments. Amen!
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2009
    #7
  8. tacou

    tacou Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,248
    10 char .
     
    #8
  9. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    7,742
    Equal for me. Becker and Hewitt are/were my favourites to watch for very different reasons but both styles of play are entertaining in my eyes.

    Some types of baseline game are boring and some types of Serve/volley game are boring. Really if you're asking if I'd rather watch 90's/early 00's matches or today's matches I'd say the former simply because there was a wider variety of players and different styles winning on different surfaces.
     
    #9
  10. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,540
    Location:
    Mar del Plata, Argentina
    I'll take Sampras vs. Becker on indoor carpet instead of Acasuso vs. Ferrer on clay 15 out of 10 times.
     
    #10
  11. The Pure One

    The Pure One Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    210
    There is no comparison between the first two players (former number one's in the world) and the last two. Put some better claycourters! Like Coria vs. Nadal or Guga v. Ferrero on clay. Now, what is your pick?
     
    #11
  12. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,164
    Location:
    Caught in No Man's Land
    What you're describing is an ace fest. That's not what serve and volley is/was. Serve and volley was Edberg, Rafter, Sampras, Krajicek, Stich, Becker, McEnroe, etc.

    Karlovic is serve, and he volleys when the serve hasn't won the point for him. All the more power to him. Oh, btw, Karlovic employs this game style on today's surfaces!!!!!!! Yes, todays surfaces. He hasn't won Queens yet, so your argument is null and void.

    I can see how Sampras could be boring because of his huge serve, but that's not all he had. He could do crazy things on the volleys as well.

    And which GOAT are you talking about.

    Andres, did you fail math?
     
    #12
  13. S H O W S T O P P E R !

    S H O W S T O P P E R ! Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    In your thredz, stealin ur bukkits
    I would take today's matches between all-courters. S&V= meh. Baselining=meh. Baselining+S&V= great matches.
     
    #13
  14. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,129
    Location:
    New York
    Good, that's probably why I enjoy watching today's game so much. (PS the "to a certain extent" was completely unnecessary)
     
    #14
  15. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,689
    Oh give me Sampras-Agassi, Sampras-Becker, Courier-Goran any day over the "99 percent baseline bashing" we see today. Nothing wrong with the baseline, grind it out style, it makes for interesting tennis.. But too much of one thing is not necassarily a great thing. Thats why I think its nice to see Players like Tsonga or Karlovic, or Fed when he is mixing things up and attack the net as well as Murray. Its a breathe of fresh air for once
     
    #15
  16. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916


    Lol.... Coria vs Nadal? Obviously you didn't watch the Rome final. That was the biggest snooze fest I've ever seen. Coria hits BHs crosscourt, Nadal hits FHs back crosscourt, repeat, etc.
     
    #16
  17. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,689
    Only match I think would present some major interest is of course a Nadal-Bruguera (Battle of the Topspins) or Nadal-Guga RG match.. Maybe a Nadal-Wilander match as well. I dunno how much more interest a Fed-Nadal RG final could garner these days
     
    #17
  18. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916




    This statement is simply so untrue it is ridiculous. Bjorn Borg vs McEnroe at Wimbledon was an extremely fast match. Points ended within 2-3 shots. Yet it is still heralded as one of the greatest matches of all time.



    Tennis ratings were far better during the 70s and 80s, when S&V was much more dominant and seen far more often. Ralleys were quick, usually not lasting more than 5 points unless it involves Lendl, Bjorn Borg, or another claycourt player.



    During the golden era of S&V (70s/80s/early 90s), the TV ratings were at their highest around the world. So please, don't say that S&V is boring. The world clearly disagrees with this statement.
     
    #18
  19. ohlori

    ohlori Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    171
    You make a caricature of it. S&V players were often seen as the more talented players in the past. Wimbledon was for the skilled players and Roland Garros more for the grinder types.
    BTW, Sampras won the Italian Open on clay and two Australian Opens on rebound ace.
     
    #19
  20. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    Haha don't worry I love Nadal, however to be objective his net game is nothing like Murray's or Federer's. He has terrific feel and movement at the net, but doesn't mix it up as much as Fed/Murray do.

    Anyway I digress, just a little aside on variety.


    Oh and let me throw this into the mix:

    Wimbledon 2008 Final.

    Need I say more for entertainment value?
     
    #20
  21. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,129
    Location:
    New York
    Nope! You said it all...
     
    #21
  22. I've highlighted some of the dumbest statements in this crap-filled post so others don't have to waste their time reading the whole thing.

    Oh, and for the love of everything on this ****ing Earth, will you people stop with the Ivo Karlovic straw-man? "Blah blah just a serve blah blah this is what you'll get if the surfaces are speed up blah blah blah."
     
    #22
  23. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    6,698
    This poll needs a S&V versus a baseline basher option.

    That being said, pure S&V versus pure S&V has the potential to be more boring than a match up between two baseliners. This is especially true if the two serve and volley players have big serves and relatively weak returns, as they were akin to having.
     
    #23
  24. SourStraws

    SourStraws Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    327
    I think a bit of both are good..... But I favour S&V


    S.S.
     
    #24
  25. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,540
    Location:
    Mar del Plata, Argentina
    My pick is still Sampras vs. Becker 15 out of 10 times
     
    #25
  26. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,164
    Location:
    Caught in No Man's Land
    I'm liking serve and volley, so yea, serve and volley.

    I'm tired of baseline bashing.
     
    #26
  27. Lendl and Federer Fan

    Lendl and Federer Fan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,325
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Today's tennis is just too monotonous, just bunch of baseliners. If nobody serve &volley on grass, you know something is really wrong in that picture. :twisted:
     
    #27
  28. Chris De Tone

    Chris De Tone Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Messages:
    219
    I agree with Andres...S & V is way better as compared to baseline bashing. His math is fine. I've walked out on many baseline grindfests at live events. Once, I had to endure a 25 minute wait for a changeover between Ferrer and Ferrero in Miami...that put me in a mood.
     
    #28
  29. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,164
    Location:
    Caught in No Man's Land
    15/10, not so good math.....:p


    Just messing with you Andres, I completely agree.
     
    #29
  30. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    So S & V is not monotonous? Please explain to my why/how. I would really like an explanation or a vid that shows how exciting S & V can be. I haev yet to come across one. I dont' mean to be condescending by any stretch, I really am interested.
     
    #30
  31. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,164
    Location:
    Caught in No Man's Land
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkNf3EwheMg


    It's not all about topspin and clay!
     
    #31
  32. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    #32
  33. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,689
    The 90s had the mixture of both which were successful. Thats what was beautiful about the era. You had the serve volley dominate at Wimbeldon and really the baseline game could get you a slam at the Australian, US OPEN, and most definitely the RG.

    I think a mixture of both makes Tennis the best to watch. The diversity in play makes tennis a beautiful game. Today there is just TOO MUCH of one and not the other
     
    #33
  34. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    The description of that video speaks for itself...the highlights of Edberg's top moments. I will be honest though that those were some solid points :D

    My claim is, however, that S & V matches are boring as a whole. There are always going to be points in a match that are the exception, but overall, it'll be one-two punches or a couple good plays at the net per point.
     
    #34
  35. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    15,865
    Location:
    VA Beach
    It all depends on what you're talking about. S&V can be pretty bad if its between bad S&Vers. Just like there can be some error fests between baseliners.

    But if you're talking the best vs. the best, then S&V is more entertaining and compelling.
     
    #35
  36. World Beater

    World Beater Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,751
    sampras himself commented once that grass tennis wasn't all that exciting especially when the final was sampras vs goran.

    definately today's game is much better than the 90s without a doubt. i dont want to watch a bunch of target practice from sampras, goran, krajicek, rusedski, becker etc but i would watch federer duke it out with the djoker, murray, safin, hewitt, nadal on any surface.

    rafter and henman were different players that were enjoyable to watch because they tried to win points at net and not with the serve.

    it would be better if the faster surfaces were sped up by like 10% so that we could still see guys approach the net and be successful. but even then i think today's raquet tech and baseline/returning skills are the biggest obstacle to s/v tennis returning...not necessarily slower surfaces.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2009
    #36
  37. Best. Avatar. Ever.
     
    #37
  38. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Lame. I can't believe so many people like S&V.
     
    #38
  39. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    Yeah lol it's an overwhelming majority right now.... I honestly thought it would be the other way around.
     
    #39
  40. World Beater

    World Beater Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,751
    i like s/v if its executed by the right practitioners.

    i like edberg, rafter, henman style.

    i can tolerate sampras, becker etc

    i dont want to watch goran, rusedski style.

    at the end of the day i like variety. today's game has quite a few baseline oriented players who are reasonably competetent at net. the game is interesting enough on all surfaces and you have a group of players who play well on all the surfaces and it makes for interesting matchups in the biggest tournaments.

    for example, in the 90s we could really only see what happens between sampras/goran...sampras/becker...sampras/agassi (to a certain extent) on fast surfaces...what about slow surfaces? i would say the tennis audience is blessed to be able to see federer, nadal, djoker, murray etc play on all surfaces against each other in the biggest tournaments.

    the problem is not so much court speed but technology + skills today that have become the antidote to s/v and net rushing play.
     
    #40
  41. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,689
    Today's conditions are a big reason why there quite a few "all surface players." as many call them. Before, the same style of play was not going to get you alot of success on every surface like it does today. I think thats a big reason why we see the top players with more points for the seasons as opposed to those of different eras. The baseline game was not going to bring you much success at wimbeldon and the indoor courts that for sure. There were a few exceptions but it was very rare
     
    #41
  42. tlm

    tlm Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    7,526
    Just watch the exhibition matches between fed+sampras, this was about as boring as tennis can get, that s+v display totally sucked.

    You can tell there must be a lot of older people here living in the past. That is the only reason i can explain that many voting for s+v.
     
    #42
  43. Holly

    Holly Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    Messages:
    463
    The Federer and Nadal rivalry has been the most exciting rivalry in the history of tennis, and Wimbledon 2008 was the most exciting tennis match in the history of tennis ( Wimbledon 2007 may have been the second most excting match).
     
    #43
  44. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,164
    Location:
    Caught in No Man's Land
    I'm 16.........
     
    #44
  45. Lendl and Federer Fan

    Lendl and Federer Fan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,325
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    So you never watch Edberg played Becker.
     
    #45
  46. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916


    Wimbledon 2008 was exciting due to the historical implications and the rivalry of two of the most dominant men in the history of the sport squaring off. It had nothing to due with the quality of tennis (granted that it was still high). I could easily name 5 matches off the top of my head that were far better in terms of quality of tennis.
     
    #46
  47. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    I haven't. I only started following tennis seriously in the past three years.
     
    #47
  48. Hatari!

    Hatari! Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    Behind you, crouched and ready to attack.
    Tennis is tennis, and tennis is always entertaining.
     
    #48
  49. paterson

    paterson New User

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    82
    Is the ATP tour slowing down the courts for the benefit of the baseliners? No, they are trying to find a balance between the increased power of the modern racquets and the speed of the court to bring back a game that is more competetive at the net.

    So far, the pendulum has swung too far in favor of the baseliners. They forgot that the new technology also allows players to hit groundstrokes they they wouldn't have dreamed of with wood racquets. Unless you hit a great serve or approach shot you are a sitting duck at the net. Today, the percentage play is to try and out slug your opponent from the baseline.
    Now the points are longer (that's good).

    At Wimbledon, the grass is getting chewed up more (that's bad). The more robust rye grass is helping. But that's also slowing things down.

    The hope is that they can bring back a style of play that benefits the serve and volleyer without bringing back the boring power game of the '90s.
     
    #49
  50. game set match 46 TIMES!!

    game set match 46 TIMES!! Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,808
    Location:
    Reporting the score as two bagels!!
    i like to see a great shot then get to the net...
     
    #50

Share This Page