Most common grip on backhand slice?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Lotto, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. Lotto

    Lotto Professional

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    Hi guys,

    I'm just wondering, what grip do you use on your slice backhand and what grips do most of the pros use? Just wondering because I've always used the continental but I've heard other people talking about the Eastern Backhand??
    What grip does Federer use does anybody know? :confused:
     
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  2. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    One handed backhand SLICE....
    Most of the top guys use a conti with an eastern forehand flavor, to create a heavily sliced ball that clears the net low, but goes deep to the baseline. The stroke is long and forceful, with full shoulder turn and footwork. Why I say this? Look at the actual contact point....like right where the front shoulder is.
    For a topspin one hander, most pros hit much farther in front of their body, using a real Easternbackhand grip.
    Especially the two handers using slice, you can see the strange grip they employ for that low ball.
    I guess if the good player has enough energy, time, and wherewithall to switch to eastern forehand grip, they'd just stroke thru with topspin:shock::shock:
    You are free to disagree, argue, and call me names. What can I possibly think I know?
    As a one hander, I employ slices from both a traditional eastern backhand grip and that weird conglomeration of grips I mentioned. That wierd conglom grip works really well.
     
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  3. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I use a continental grip that favors the EASTERN BACKHAND.

    1. Your ability to control the racquet head throughout the swing is very important.

    2. Your weight tranfer to hit over your front leg is very important.

    3. You being able to maintain your balance over your front leg is very important.
     
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  4. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Really? Eastern forehand? Are you sure?
     
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  5. Fay

    Fay Professional

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    I use a semi-western for everything, including BH slice from the baseline, except of course serves and net play where I use continental. I tried using Continental on slices from farther back and I can't seem to get my arm to work as well that way ... not as much power. personal preference
     
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  6. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Really? You should talk to StormHolloway, he thinks everything is learned naturally. Or maybe you just had a coach that kept barking in your ear confusing your inner child. I think that is it.

    But ouch on the SW grip. You must roll your elbow forward and swing from the lower arm a bunch.
     
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  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, I hate to say eastern forehand side of continental, but it's true.
    Remember one thing different about the pros.... if they bother to switch to a real eastern backhand grip, they will just as soon rip a topspin shot.
    That cont with east backhand flavor is the CHANGE OF PACE shot, the retrieval when they want to rest, and the "I dare you to approach" shot....
    Not saying it's full relevant here, but once long time ago, one of the current #4 ranked Pro player, one RaulRameriz (sp), told me about that wierd defensive grip. It puts more slice with less pace, what the pros are looking for in a change of pace shot.
    Few pros actually slice normally, so that explains our differences from that of pros..:twisted::twisted:
     
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  8. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest

    No way... continental grip with the wrist laid back (knuckles toward the elbow).
    Cup under the ball and "throw" the racquet and wrist in the direction you want the ball to go. Do not break the wrist laterally, keep the wrist firm.

    Hard to describe in words. A pro should be teaching you the basics of good technique.
     
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  9. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    LOL, I think you misread my comment. I am not trying to learn the slice backhand. I already know how to teach and hit a slice backhand.

    I am making the comment to LeeD's statement that pros hit a slice backhand using an Eastern FOREHAND grip.
     
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  10. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest

    Yep... sorry... eastern fh slice... BAD FORM!
     
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  11. junbumkim

    junbumkim Professional

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    Are you SURE ABOUT this!!!!!!!!!!!!????

    Sorry B.Bill...Just messing around..
     
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  12. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    It is true? Really? Wow, in all the years I have studied the slice backhand, I have never once noticed or learned that they use the EASTERN FOREHAND GRIP.

    Are you okay? I am becoming worried about you now. :-|

    Really? So, hitting a slice backhand does not depend on the BALL they are receiving, their court position, their tactics or strategy? It is simply if they are close to the topspin bakchand grip, just hit topspin? Is that your reasoning?

    Are you okay? I am becoming worried about you now. :-|

    Oh I see, yeah, okay...

    Are you okay? I am becoming worried about you now. :-|

    Uh oh, here we go...I am with ya, "once a long time ago", a space ship landed and these aliens with one eye and green skin taught us how to hit a slice backhand, not the ones that you CHANGE OF PACE on, but the other ones, you know, the ones you don't hit a topspin backhand on...yeah...those...whatever they are...

    I am talking about the pros. And what differences are we talking about? I am simply asking you, based on your statement, to see if...well...to see if you can let me know what kind of drugs you are taking.

    I think they are really really good.
     
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  13. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well...you might have something there. It was there the last time I checked. ;)
     
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  14. Tomek_tennis

    Tomek_tennis New User

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    continental
     
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  15. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Mild eastern for the win. Perfect blend of drive and wrist stability.

    Matt
     
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  16. Lotto

    Lotto Professional

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    I agree with BB LeeD. Pros using an eastern forehand grip to hit a slice backhand is proposterous. The slice backhand isn't really my favourite shot. I nearly ALWAYS drive the ball on my backhand unless I'm feeling lazy or I HAVE to.
     
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  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You guys are wrong first of all.
    Second of all, you guys approach the problem from the wrong side...
    You see, if you watch Feds slice during a long rally, check out his contact point and how MUCH slice he puts into the underspin shot. It is NOT like your slices!
    Now see Nadal's one handed slice, when he does it that is. Same grip, hit sorta close to his shoulder, NOT out in front like he'd hit with any normal grip.
    I did NOT say to slice with Eastern Forehand. You 14 year olds who don't understand what you read say I did. NOPE !!:twisted: I said continental with an eastern forehand flavor. That is DIFFERENT than eastern forehand grip.
    We slice as a normal shot. The pros slice as a change of pace. Different idea, different grip.
    RaulRameriz was ranked like #4 IN THE WORLD like 1975 or so. I talked to him while stringing some of his Kramers. He decked me with that statement of cont with a slight bias towards eastern FOREHAND for low sliced balls.
    Since then, notice the PRO tennis players slices, especially the Roddick and other two hander's slices. Taken late, long full stroke with solid body position, it's NOT the slice YOU DUFFERS use.
    Now given you 4.0 and under players, DO NOT USE THIS GRIP !!! It is not recommended for you. It's only for the top players going for a change of pace shot!
    SteffiGrafs backhand is exactly that grip. Cont for sure, but a few degrees towards the forehand side to affect more than normal underspin on the ball. Now you know why, so I won't tell you:):)
    Thanks for considering worrying about my scrambled brains, BungalowBill, but this comes straight from some PRO players, not something I just made up on the fly.
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I fully agree with Slicendicer, not that you care....
    Some pros use wierd grips and abberation swings, and it works FOR THEM. We are NOT telling everyone to use those "uncommon" techniques. We are merely pointing out that there are more than one ways to skin your cat:evil:
    Dis thread... I'm talking PROFESSIONAL players. They can use whatever they want.
    You guys are talking instruction for players still learning to play tennis. TWO DIFFERENT BEASTS!!!!
    If I was telling a 3.8 player about how to hit slice backhands, I'd say go EASTERN BACKHAND grip first. Then you can try continental to lessen the # of needed grips in competition.
    If you tell Roddick to change his one handed SLICE grip, he'd say :twisted::twisted:
    See, TWO DIFFERENT SLICED BACKHANDS !!
     
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  19. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest


    That may not be too good for me...

    FULL DISCLOSURE: I speak only for myself.
     
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  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Slicendicer....
    Are you a superior reincarnation of me?:):)
    Guys here say I argue all the time with certified coaches.
    I say the coaches don't know .......
    There is MORE than ONE way to play the game of tennis.:shock:
     
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  21. tennisfreak15347

    tennisfreak15347 Banned

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    are you saying we don't slice for the same reason? that IS why people use slice... :neutral: and now, why are you suggesting 4.0 and under players not to use this grip, when you have two contradicting statements here:
     
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  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    The "do not use this grip" thing is for all the coach's and tennis teachers on this forum. If I was teaching tennis, I'd advocate eastern backhand slices.
    But I"m NOT advocation anything, just observing that some pros use a wierd grip for their match play slices.
    Like.... see that way they do it? Don't copy. But if you wish, copy:):):)
     
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  23. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    So we are wrong. Okaaaaayyyyy...

    So pros use an eastern backhand favored slice just to change the pace of the ball.

    Pros use an Eastern forehand slice to nail it. Is this correct?

    Federer hits a good slice but many players arent far off from hitting slice shots that bite and also put a lot of underspin on the ball.

    And how do you know what my slice is like? Once again, you post these ridiculous claims.

    Actually I did understand. And I am not 14 years old. You said that pros use a Continental grip with an EASTERN FOREHAND GRIP FLAVOR. Meaning the hand is shifted towardss the Eastern forehand. Is that correct? I want to be sure before we debate this.

    [quote[RaulRameriz was ranked like #4 IN THE WORLD like 1975 or so. I talked to him while stringing some of his Kramers. He decked me with that statement of cont with a slight bias towards eastern FOREHAND for low sliced balls.[/quote]

    And then the space ship landed?

    Okay...I guess I will have to debate this to find out if you are right. I will give you a fair shot at this. Prove it.

    Okay, so is everyone buying this? He has some good drugs doesnt he?

    It comes straight form the pros, and you talked to all of these pros?
     
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  24. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    LeeD no hear of wrist stable thing, no?
     
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  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You funny guy, BungalowBill...
    But you are sooo inflexible in your approach to tennis. To you, there is ONE way to play tennis, YOUR WAY.
    Yes, I strung rackets for Rameriz, DickStockton, and MikeCahill. Yes, I hung around and listened while ColinDibley rambled on about all subjects while downing GERMAN beer, not Fosters.
    Yes, I was standing with IlanaKloss and Rosie while Steffi was hitting one handed topspin backhands, and watched her slices too.
    Maybe I'm no famous coach or teacher.
    Maybe I'm a lousy 4.0 player.
    That doesn't mean I didn't talk to those players, or watch them closely....like standing at the side of the net!
    What would you say about FrancoiseDurr's backhand?
    What would you say about McEnroes volleys?
    Waht would you say about JuanIgnacioChela's service motion?
    EllenDementiava's?
    How about FrewMcMillan or GeneMayer's two handed strokes?
    YOU teach tennis your way.
    There are lots of different ways to play tennis.
     
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  26. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    No, once again you are wrong. I am very flexible in my tennis approach until someone posts nonsense things. I have a whole slew of tennis coaches that I have learned from; CoachingMastery, John Yandell, Vic Braden, Oscar Wegner, Various Junior Coaches in So. Cal, various coaches that authored books...

    I dont care if you think that a player should run out to the courts naked and just "feel" there way to hitting a great tennis ball.

    What I do care about is when you say it is sound instruction or someone says they dont need coaching because it is bad for you kind of nonsense. You can bet your sweet bippy I will comment on that and I will be inflexible.

    I dont care about this. I care about what you said as truth.

    You said that pros hit a slice backhand with a continental grip that favors the EASTERN forehand.

    I am also not going to isolate the few people with unorthodox ways in hitting a stroke as something the masses should start doing. There has to be some responsibility here in what you provide as instruction or advice.

    Bad advice exists in all industries and just because someone else is doing it does not mean it is good advice! Just look at the the stock market for goodness sakes!

    Do you run out and invest on everything people tell you? Or do you do your research and find out HOW to invest properly. I am not saying that instruction is the Holy Grail, all I am saying is good sound instruction provides a beacon, a light, or guidance for a player to develop a good tennis stroke using their own capabilities. It helps shape their swing properly to maximize thier enjoyment of the game.

    I want you to prove your statement about the following:

    1. Pros hit with a Contienntal grip that favors an Eastern forehand grip.

    2. Pros only use the Continental grip that favors the Eastern backhand tojust change the pace of the ball.

    You either prove this or this is not true.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
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  27. Lotto

    Lotto Professional

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    Not really different ways to play tennis, there's grip alterations, there's different types of styles of play and backswings but at the end of the day technically every single pro player shares the same fundamentals on every stroke. On the forehand for instance LeeD, if there's many ways to play tennis why are all of the strokes practically the same except for the backswing?

    EVERY PRO stroke has the unit turn

    EVERY PRO stroke has a backswing (not all the same, all varied and unique yet doesn't affect the stroke, if that were the case then all pros would have the same type of backswing as John Yandell says)

    EVERY PRO develops a hitting arm structure ( Double bend or Straight, mostly double bend but a few are straight. e.g. Nadal, Verdasco, Young. Federer also but he can hit any of them)

    EVERY PRO pulls the racquet to the ball butt cap first.

    EVERY PRO PUSHES or DRIVES through the ball and LIFTS to apply Topspin.



    I'm sorry but to be a successful tennis player there are limited ways to learn the game, there are fundamentals, and only small things can be varied which don't cause a big difference in the stroke, i.e. Backswings.

    Same on every stroke. I know we're talking about grips but this is just to your response that "There are lots of different ways to play tennis."


    As far as the grip question goes though, I'm wondering what grip is the msot common, pure continental or mild eastern backhand aka pro serving grip or what?
     
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  28. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Sorry BungalowBill, once again you miss the mark.
    You said I said EVERY PRO HITS CONT with a slice of EASTERN BACK !
    NOPE. I said SOME pros use this grip, and I made specific names.
    You and Dj for life seem to always infer all sorts of your own thoughts into what I say. Please read and understand.
    OK, you understood my grip I mentioned. BUT, what did you type? YOU typed EASTERN FOREHAND..... period !
    Now admit your mistake before you post further.
    At least DJ for life did admit his mistake.
    See, you are NOT GOD. Your training doesn't DOES NOT entitle you as a all knowing tennis coach.
    You are just a learned tennis coach trying to help others. As is Dj for life and a few other guys. As a tennis coach, you already admitted you were WR
    ONG before (beginner service grip).
    Now can't you understand that you can be wrong again !!
    If you and all those coaches are sooooo great, where is the next USA tennis pro?
     
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  29. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Perfectly said. This is what is true. This is the direction a tennis player needs to take and understand in order to improve and be able to play their best tennis.

    The sport of tennis is not immune to hardwork and setbacks. It takes drive, heart, ambition, dedication, hardwork, practice, drills, and mastering the fundamentals to be the best you can be as a tennis player.

    Many people here pt the cart before the horse. They say "just do what feels natural." This is the worst way to learn tennis and get good at it.

    A tennis player wiht aspirations to succeed needs to learn how to hit the ball properly so the mind can absorb and figure out the patterns it needs to fire the muscles a certain way.

    Once the brain understands and the player begins to master the patterns and sequences, then automation is appropriate. The player needs to train themselves to empty their thoughts, relax, let what they trained their body to do perform in the way the body knows how to perform. They then need to free their minds from technical things about their form and begin learnig how to focus on the point, the match, etc...and even some of that gets absorbed and becomes intuitive.
     
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  30. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Sorry, BungalowBill, that last sentence wasn't fair to you and your good intentions.
    I was caught in the emotional moment.
    Diss my history if you want, but it's true, I talked to those guys while they hung around as I strung their rackets.
     
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  31. ttbrowne

    ttbrowne Hall of Fame

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    Mentioned this many times here but the reason Fed gets so much bite on the slice is NOT because of anything he does BEFORE he hits the ball. It's what he does AFTER he hits it.

    Watch Fed hit an average slice and you'll see that AFTER the contact he literally makes a V with both of his arms BEHIND his back. THIS is the key to the bite he gets with the slice.

    I too was confounded with his ability to get so much underspin. No pros were able to tell me. I studied his slice over and over and over and over. Then, I finally saw it! The V! He brings his arms back to an exaggerated position. I don't know of any other pro that hits it quite like this.

    I tried it. It works. Of course the problem is timing. But I would recommend any of the 4.5 and above young players to experiment with this technique.

    Bring your arms back til they are uncomfortable in the follow-thru. It's almost a touch shot. Very difficult.
     
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  32. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I know the last statement is not true and I am not dissing your history, I just dont think it is relevant.

    You made a statement about how pros hit the slice backhand with a Continental grip that favors the Eastern forehand grip. This is something new to me and before I start believing it and perhaps changing my perception and advice, I want to know if this is true or false.

    You have a habit of making statements, this is one I want to know if it is true.
     
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  33. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    I just use a continental. I don't use these weird in between grips you guys talk about. "5.52 degrees towards eastern forehand"...lol you've got to be kidding me.

    I'm pretty sure continental is the best grip and most common grip for this shot though.
     
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  34. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Ah yes, over-analysis in trivial matters. The path to success for the inspiring keyboard warrior.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
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  35. autumn_leaf

    autumn_leaf Hall of Fame

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    i would use continental or eastern backhand.

    using grips like eastern fh or semiwestern like someone said will open up the face of the racquet too much leading to pop ups. only way i see a semi-western working is a stroke on a near vertical angle and the wrist bent like a western fh, which sounds painful.
     
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  36. oneguy21

    oneguy21 Banned

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    I prefer a mild continental slighty toward the eastern backhand with the very subtle flavor of a western forehand not to mention a slight essence of an inverted semi-western backhand.


    Perfect grip for a backhand slice.
     
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  37. AlphaCDjkr

    AlphaCDjkr Rookie

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    I find that my grip really varies depending on what grip I happened to be holding beforehand. However, it usually revolves around two forms: Continental+Eastern FH, and Continental + Eastern BH.

    I find that when I slice with Continental/Eastern FH, I'll produce a slow paced, high spin, floaty slice (best for drop shots and longitudinal sidespin)
    When I use Continental/Eastern BH, I notice that the slice tends to have more pace and control, and penetrates into the court more.

    So.. that's me.
     
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  38. beckham

    beckham Semi-Pro

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    I use a continential grip for everything, except my forehand, which is semi-western.
     
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  39. junbumkim

    junbumkim Professional

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    For a moment, I thought LeeD wrote this post, and was very shocked in a pleasant way.. Then I realized it was someone else............Expectations never disappoint me.
     
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  40. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Your willingness to take heed to the voice of experience really sets you apart from the crowd, LeeD.

    Matt
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
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  41. [d]ragon

    [d]ragon Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Hmm, looks Continental leaning towards Eastern BH to me (thought I'd throw a Sampras in too). I bet not every pro hits theirs this way though.
    Eastern BH is what I use. Previously I had been trying to hit it with a regular Continental and even tried a bit of Eastern FH but they never seemed to work. Switching to the Eastern BH has definitely helped my slice a lot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
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  42. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Personally I am of the belief that this is the best possible grip for most players. What the eastern grips essentially do is offer improved stability in the wrist, so IMO this grip offers the perfect balance between stability and control in the sense that it's not extreme enough to hinder the players technique in the process.

    Matt
     
    #42
  43. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest

    Continental, yes, I don't see an Eastern BH grip in any of those pic's. Not saying any grip is right or wrong, you play with whatever works best... but that isn't Eastern BH grip.
     
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  44. orangettecoleman

    orangettecoleman Professional

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    I noticed that Nadal uses something close to an Eastern FH grip when hitting a slice backhand. It's really awkward looking. Graf's backhand grip was really close to an eastern FH as well. I tried it, it gets you TONS of slice but i can't imagine how anyone who uses that grip can control their placement unless all they want to do is hit drop shots.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
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  45. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Continental.
     
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  46. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    That looks more like a volley from Sampras as opposed to a slice.
     
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  47. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    :lol::lol::lol:
     
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  48. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    The forehand slice, squash shot and drop shot are all continental grip, too.
     
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  49. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Did you also walk to school during major blizzards, uphill both ways, without shoes? :D
     
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  50. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    Oct 4, 2004
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    You see players hit good slices with either the eastern backhand grip and the continental. Really, the difference is about how much you want to drive the ball (More eastern) versus hitting a heavy slice that grabs the ground and stays low (more continential).

    Also, the difference in grips often depends on your normal backhand grip (semi-western versus eastern backhand). This is because most players continue to use a similar contact point (i.e, so if you hit the ball more in front, you will do better with a eastern grip for slice, whereas if you hit further back, e.g., around your hip, the continental will often work better.
     
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