Most Telling Stat of Winning at ATP

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by OddJack, Dec 12, 2011.

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Which stat is most important? Choose all that apply

  1. First serve points won

    22 vote(s)
    32.4%
  2. Second serve points won

    33 vote(s)
    48.5%
  3. Winner/UE Ratio

    39 vote(s)
    57.4%
  4. Return Games won

    19 vote(s)
    27.9%
  5. First serve in %

    17 vote(s)
    25.0%
  6. Second Serve in %

    6 vote(s)
    8.8%
  7. Average Net clearance

    4 vote(s)
    5.9%
  8. Average Second serve speed

    2 vote(s)
    2.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    First Vote


    There are 3 choices there, that if you give points to players according to those 3 stats, the current rankings will be as follows:

    1-Djoker
    2-Nadal
    3-Federer
    4-Murray

    Not bad.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
    #1
  2. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    One of the most pointless articles ever written since he doesn't even show the charts/trending etc he's referring to. Bodo is just filling in his quota of articles probably.
     
    #2
  3. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Ok, but you can still vote
     
    #3
  4. akv89

    akv89 Hall of Fame

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    Winners/UE ratio is the best quantifiable measurement we have currently that describes quality of play, despite the subjectivity involved in determining UE's. Too bad the ATP doesn't keep track of these statistics.
     
    #4
  5. ViscaB

    ViscaB Hall of Fame

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    I would go for sets won;). The stats you mentioned need to be looked at in combination....
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
    #5
  6. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I would agree with the above post. Winners vs UEs is probably the best measure, although I have no empirical data with which to support this whatsoever!
     
    #6
  7. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    I voted for 2nd serve points won because if you look at the top 2 greatest of all time (federer and sampras), they both have above par 2nd serves. also the saying "a player is only as good as his second serve"

    Also voted for the positive winner to unforced error choice too because its an obvious stat that happens when a player is dominating another.
     
    #7
  8. newton296

    newton296 Rookie

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    good point, but if you look at the 2 greatest of all time, they both are above par on all their shots! yes?
     
    #8
  9. GOAT BAAH!!!

    GOAT BAAH!!! Professional

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    Most telling stat of winning...

    for 2011 was definitely number of ball bounces prior to serve...
     
    #9
  10. defrule

    defrule Professional

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    I think second serve point won.

    Second serve is where players usually get a look into service games. If you aren't winning many of these then you live or die by your first serve. On the other hand if you are comfortable winning points off second serve then getting cheap points with the first serve is a bonus.
     
    #10
  11. mromato64

    mromato64 New User

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    You're only as good as how you play the point during the second serve
     
    #11
  12. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    second serve points won % here too
     
    #12
  13. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    hahahaha..:)
     
    #13
  14. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    Break points converted.
     
    #14
  15. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    #15
  16. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    I quit reading when he said he excluded aces as a category, I have a feeling including aces as a category, changed the results amongst the top three players overall.

    I think it is also pretty clear that Federer doesn't put as much effort into obtaining multiple breaks against his opponents every set like Nadal or Djokovic , I think Federer slacks off to conserve energy some matches if he has one break already.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2011
    #16
  17. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    LOL at average net clearance
     
    #17
  18. norbac

    norbac Legend

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    Score would be my guess.
     
    #18
  19. rossi46

    rossi46 Professional

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    Whether or not a player ***** themselves on big points or big matches ie. Murray, Wozniacki, actually most of the women's tour
     
    #19
  20. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    ^^^^

    You post some serious garbage rossi.

    ***** yourself and go away, little pest.
     
    #20
  21. adamX012

    adamX012 Rookie

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    3=2, 1, 4 that's my answer.
     
    #21
  22. vernonbc

    vernonbc Hall of Fame

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    Two greatest of all time because of their 2nd serves? Federer's up there, just behind Rafa who is #1 all-time, but Sampras is down in 18th place. http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfacts/Matchfacts-List.aspx?c=3&s=0&y=0

    The one who surprises me on that list is John Isner who is in fourth place.
     
    #22
  23. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

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    aquired AND converted. you need both

    otherwise a guy whos had 5 BPs all season and taken all 5 would lead your ranking without having won a single match on tour
     
    #23
  24. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    Hmmmmm, so a guy with 6 BPs converted all season wouldn't lead the guy with 5....interesting....I
    don't see percentage anywhere in my post.
     
    #24
  25. Netzroller

    Netzroller Semi-Pro

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    Interesting, thanks for sharing!
     
    #25
  26. akv89

    akv89 Hall of Fame

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    Here's another way to rephrase the question being asked:

    Suppose you have a match with two unidentified players and you are not told the outcome. You must guess who won the match and can choose to know how both players did with respect to any one statistic in order to do this. Which statistic would you pick?

    This rephrasing assumes that the more someone wins individual matches, the more likely they are to be ranked higher (which is a pretty valid assumption).

    In the above scenario, I feel like the winner/ue ratio gives me the most information to make a valid guess.
     
    #26
  27. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

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    i know you didnt. but when people talk about BP conversion they usually mean percentage
     
    #27

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