Mrmo1115-do NOT deal with

Discussion in 'References' started by zapvor, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    DO NOT deal with him at all.

    I have all emails and communication with him saved. Too much to post here, but here is some points to consider:

    He listed racket at 8.5/10
    yet this is what I found(I have pictures to prove I am not making this up obviously)

    1. bumperguard very worn needs replacement (it came shipped with Babolat guard tape; I wonder why!)

    2. Deep gash at 12o clock about 3inches long, way below paint surface showing graphite material.

    3. missing buttcap. AND buttend is very damaged (picture a buttcap after it is been chewed by a dog like a bone)

    4. scuffs everywhere up and down the frame. too many locations to list here.

    5. Nicks and scratches that go deeper than paint on frame

    6. racket came with strings broken but not cut out putting much uneven stress on frame.

    And that's just issue with the item itself. This does not mention him lying and misleading me from beginning to end. Like I said I have all communication to prove it.

    Good news: I got payback. Email me for details if you like. I wasted enough time now.
     
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  2. robJAR

    robJAR Semi-Pro

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    Can you post some pictures? I'm just curious. I knew I had a feeling about this guy..

    -robJAR
     
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  3. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Like I said before, he had shoes he was going to throw out into the trash, yes just dump them not give away, but ended up selling them through TW at a wealthy price.
     
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  4. zidane339

    zidane339 Hall of Fame

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    Hmmm funny that someone who creates a thread in order to not be scammed..scams.Once again, don't deal with people that don't have refs.

    Just curious, how did you get payback? I think all of us are dying to know.
     
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  5. mrmo1115

    mrmo1115 Hall of Fame

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    I didn't scam him, he asked for pictures, when i told him i couldn't send to him b/c i was suppose to be sleeping so i had no access to my desktop, where the pic was saved. he as a sller, should have waited for the following day for me to give the pics and what ever he wanted so he can fully make a well-thought out decision. As a seller you would have to look at pics and decide for yourself if they were at your standards. They were a friends racket and I was supposed to be sleeping at the time of over emails, which I told him , I can post the email if you'd like. I'll admit some irresponsobility of not emailing him the next morning, but like I said before there were some flaws in him as a buyer as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
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  6. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    If you want to be reputed as a good seller, there are steps you need to take, too. Pointing fingers isn't going to really get you very far, here, where reputation is EVERYTHING.

    While zapvor may have made a mistake in not asking you for pictures, making a clear misrepresentation of your product is not justifiable in any situation.
     
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  7. robJAR

    robJAR Semi-Pro

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    That was so confusing to read.. So many commas..

    You mean "he WAS a SELLER."

    Well even if you took a day, if I read it right, from what he described that's definitely NOT a 8.5. Technically, it was just a very dumb sell, and he deserved every penny back. You're just digging yourself into a deeper hole... You do realize that, don't you? The only flaw I see from the buyer was that he didn't wait for any pictures (if I'm reading this right. Sorry if I'm wrong), but other than that.. Nothing. Well for starters, no offense, I'd at least ask for the bumper guard to be removed to see what's under there, but I'm pretty sure that was your responsibility so it wouldn't backfire like it already has. Secondly, a MISSING buttcap? Are you kidding me?

    And how did you pay the BUYER, zapvor, back?

    I had a good feeling of not trying to buy a racket from this guy, and my instincts were correct.

    -robJAR
     
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  8. mrmo1115

    mrmo1115 Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ You are right as I am still learning the basics of selling stuff. This was a very flawed transaction and I will admit my mistake, but we cannot put the blame all on me, as zapvor also was a bit too trustworthy as a seller to go ahead and pay me so fast when he should have waited for pictures... like i said they were friends racket, so i wasn't 100 % accustomed to the racket ... i just knew a brief overview... had he asked me to look at it over again and double check, i would have known and emailed him.

    This is the only one that back fired on me , and like he said he got his refund.

    I just had 2 more transactions that went well. And my 3rd is pending where I bought a PST from someone on these boards. Looks like this is the only one that has gone wrong. The Adidas shoes went fine, the buyer ended up satisfied, just the thread I made was in appropriate.
     
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  9. robJAR

    robJAR Semi-Pro

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    Next time, even if he doesn't ask for pictures mention small stuff, like scraches, gashes, missing buttcaps, etc. It will help in the long run. Even if you don't get a sell, I'd take that any day rather than ruining my reputation in here. I admit, I've only purchased 3 rackets in one deal from skraggle (WHICH HASN'T WRITTEN A FEEDBACK AT ALL YET ;)), and it went smoothly. He mentioned chipped paint and little scratches. Yes, zapvor might have rushed it, but it was your responsibility alone to mention the things he has mentioned in his post.

    And Mrmo, you really have to stop using the "I'm new to this thing...". First off you have over 1,800+ posts and you've been here for a while, so stop with that. I'm sure you've clicked here a bunch of times before making your first purchase/sale, and have gotten used to the habits of what people have posted and how it works. I'm new to it too, as you can tell by my join date and only one purchase, but I read this first:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=217121

    Take a few minutes, and read it THOROUGHLY. It's there for a reason so people like you can understand what to do and how to go with it. That might have sounded mean, but that wasn't my intention. It's to let you know that there's a place that will answer all your questions, and hopefully get your reputation up.

    And like diredesire said, it's a waste of time pointing fingers. It messes your rep here.

    Read every single word of that link, and one day you'll be a great seller/buyer.

    -robJAR
     
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  10. mrmo1115

    mrmo1115 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks, I mean this is really, the first time I messed up. The other time, I didn't mess up at all, he got the shoes and they were fine, just the thread i made created a lot of hype. My post coutn doesn't mean anything, I post all the time in shoes/apparel, rackets, and stringing, but I just started coming to the marketplace....
     
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  11. robJAR

    robJAR Semi-Pro

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    Alright, well I apologize for that. Just make sure you read that thread link I posted and you should be okay. Hey, I'm only 17 and even though most people are looking down as teenagers being the buyer/seller in a transaction, I'm trying to get people to trust me and change that "stereotype" that forming here. Cheers, and best of luck to you.

    -robJAR
     
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  12. mrmo1115

    mrmo1115 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks robJar for understanding my situation. I made a mistake, but zapvor won't admit the mistake he made... which was a legit one and can also be placed on his side to create my hypothesis that this transaction is flawed, but not on one side, therefore, it should just be canned. He got his money back through paypal, so it seems everything is okay.
     
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  13. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    You know, you're previous post was okay, but after this one, you just can't let it go. You keep trying to say you're sorry but at the same time say it's not really your fault. A simple apology would most likely make everything fine, but you keep going at it at zvapor........
     
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  14. robJAR

    robJAR Semi-Pro

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    Agreed.. you basically went past the line and pointed your whole damn hand on him this time. I take back what I said about you possibly being a better person to make transactions with.

    You both had mistakes, but yours would have killed a chicken while zapvor's mistake would probably have given another chicken a scratch. Bad example, but whatever. Stop blaming one another. Once again, you just dug yourself into a deeper hole. Keep going and you'll be at a bottomless pit. You'll never understand if you keep at it with this "never ending fight" you want to keep going, even though you apologized and "understood". You didn't, and no matter what you say, we will know that THAT is how you deal with it. This is completely immature on all standards.

    Good luck making another transaction.

    Oh, and by the way. It's robJAR. Get it right.

    -robJAR
     
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  15. zidane339

    zidane339 Hall of Fame

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    Just because the buyer didn't wait for pics, doesn't mean this transaction didn't go wrong completely because of the seller. Even by giving a rating out of 10,you are giving your word that the racquet is that condition. That is the trust between the sellar and buyer, and what a reputable sellar is trustworthy on.

    Obviously, from zapvor's description, the condition was completely wrong, and you should accept full responsibility for your mistake and apologize instead of accusing zapvor.

    I'm glad you gave a full refund, and I hope this teaches you a lesson in future transactions.
     
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  16. mrmo1115

    mrmo1115 Hall of Fame

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    ^^ Apparently he got a full refund w/o me having to paypal him any money.. So we're still fine, since he got money back.
     
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  17. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    The basics are covered in a pretty (IMHO, of course ;)) comprehensive sticky. There is no excuse for not being able to follow it, we all assume and operate under the condition of people having reviewed it BEFORE posting. (That's why that is in the title there...).

    A) You shouldn't be selling gear "for a friend."
    A.2) If you DO decide to take the risk of selling for SOMEONE ELSE, it is YOUR responsibility. You assume this responsibility when you sell under your own screen name. PERIOD.
    B) As a seller, you assume responsibility for what you put down on your ad
    C) Since our rating system and feedback system depend solely on respect, trust, and user feedback, it is implied that is is a system of "honor" and "trust." If a user trusts your word that you put on your thread, that's all there is, regardless of whether pictures are possible or not. In fact, if pictures are a possibility, why didn't you just wait for a night before posting? It protects everyone in the transaction (which is why I recommend pictures strongly in the sticky!)
    D) When you sell any gear, regardless if it is yours or not, you should be closely looking over the gear while rating it, and give detailed, honest ratings. This isn't solely a mistake you made, TONS of users list little to NO details on their frames. I occasionally help the admins out and filter some posts, and I can't tell you how many I simply won't look at due to lack of details. (As a tip, if you flesh out your ads and describe all wear and tear, they get passed faster ;))


    From what I understand, you are 13. Age isn't an issue, but common sense and maturity is expected from all using the forum. If you are not prepared to provide others the common courtesy that is provided to you, maybe you should wait. (I will make the point that I do not discriminate on age, I would gladly trade with an 8 year old that knows how to handle his or her own business). I've been an active online trader since I was 14 years old, and I've never had a negative feedback. Excellent communication is key in all transactions.

    Yes, zapvor might have made a mistake by not waiting/expecting pictures, but this does not mean he is at fault. There is a difference. His mistake was that he trusted your word, perhaps due to your previous good trades. The fact, after this ordeal, is that perhaps your word should not be as trusted as you continue to claim. We are all giving you harsh, but true advice, so realizing the fact of fault is where you need to take another look. Yes, the transaction was flawed, but IMHO zapvor is not at fault for any of his actions.


    Ninja Edit: Also, yes, he did get a full refund, but did you refund his return shipping charge? I hope so.
    Also take into consideration the time he wasted and the time he needs to spend on shipping it back, perhaps having to leave work early to get to the post office on time, etc. I know it might not make so much sense to you now, but the old adage "time is money" ain't no joke. Often times when you get older, there is a specific (or vague) dollar amount that is attributed to each hour in your day. Just because you refund some money doesn't really make things "square." Yes, zapvor is likely able to now put this whole thing behind him, but do you think it's really water under the bridge? Would he deal with you again? Like I said before, your reputation and how you carry yourself is incredibly important, especially in online trading.



    Lets spin this around so you can see where we're coming from:
    Lets say you wanted an iPhone, and you saw someone selling one here. The sale post clearly states "This phone is in pretty decent shape, i'd rate it as a nice 8.5/10, $150 shipped."

    Obviously this is a great deal. You want to secure this deal before someone else takes it from you. You shoot off an e-mail showing that you mean business.
    "I'll take it, I can send you paypal for it, I'm a serious buyer."

    The transaction takes place, and a week later you have an iPhone with a 2 inch gash across the screen, and several small dents around the edges, with dark black smudges across the back.

    You contact the seller and complain.
    His response:
    "Sorry man, I was selling it for my friend, and I've only seen it a few times, I'm familiar with it, but if you had told me to check it over again, I would have. You could have waited a day for pics!"

    How would you feel?

    I think the answer is clear.

















    At the end of the day, I have to say nice job in returning the money, a crappier trader may not have done the same. Also, I know my tone and long long post comes off very harsh, but if you take it to heart and learn from all of our advice, I guarantee life will be easier for you in the future. (Just check out the trev433 thread..)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
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  18. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Dire, I have to disagree. Age is an issue. Frankly, anyone who buys a racket from a 14 year old kid deserves exactly what they get.

    Minors should be banned from doing business here. They cause far too many problems. Or, maybe the adults here should just have more sense than to do deals with kids.

    Hint: I can't send pics of the racket right now because mommy said it is past my bedtime.

    That should have been your first clue. ;o)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
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  19. robJAR

    robJAR Semi-Pro

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    Nicely put, diredesire. You should read his post thoroughly as well as the sticky on how to trade. ;)

    -robJAR
     
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  20. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    Sure, age can be taken into account, but if I found out a reputable trader was a "14 year old kid," I wouldn't ban him. I'm trying to point out that there are exceptions to any rule, and younger members should accept the rules and operate under the same conditions as any other trader here.

    (I guess I have to concede that age "is an issue," due to legal and contractual stipulations, but that's not really my point)
     
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  21. icorp

    icorp Rookie

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    Age is becoming an issue. The last few bad trades are a prime example and this kid has just went over board. I even tried to educate him the principles of a good trade and he obviously failed. LOL, he called it "childish" coming from the biggest baby here. See this thread http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=238348&page=2.

    It's getting to a point where I am setting a trading double standard. One for kids and one for adults. I'm going to post a disclaimer "beware when trading with me because I'm mean and will make you go crying back to mommy if you don't follow simple rules".
     
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  22. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    If you look at the high percentage of bad deals here involving minors, the thing speaks for itself. I rest my case. ;o)

    I won't conduct business with minors. People who do deserve what they get.

    And yet, they come here to whine. ;o)

    Here is a good rule. Don't do deals with children. Apparently some of you don't get that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
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  23. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Well tell me this for those who trade/buy/sell all the time in the forum, do you guys even know the age of the person you are doing the deals with?

    In the past when there were hardly any bad references, could it be then there were kids doing deals?

    I'm just saying there are many bad references lately and maybe it's a coincidence they also happen to be kids. As DD said, he's been doing deals since he was 14. Perhaps all the youngins doing deals in the past are old now and the new generation of kids are just bad. Don't write off young people is basically my point.
     
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  24. icorp

    icorp Rookie

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    I've had many transactions with young members. I'm very impressed by their maturity, responsibility, and overall efforts to make a trade good. There are a few bad seeds that is spoiling the entire purpose of this forum. It won't stop me from trading but I will conduct trades more cautiously.
     
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  25. sharpilistik

    sharpilistik Banned

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    Agreed. I would say that certain fellows tend to be troublemakers. Its easy to spot.

    Personally, I don't know mr. mo, but I just got a bad impression 2 weeks or so ago when he posted that "scam-prevention" thread if you recall...

    sounds like another transaction where buyer and seller were BOTH minors. bound for trouble
     
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  26. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    1. mrmo1115, you said that the buyer made a mistake of being too trustworthy. Being trustworthy is NOT a mistake. He just happened to trust the wrong person.
    2. If you refunded his money, you're all right in my book. There's really not much more you can do if you made sure he wasn't out anything.
    3. If you were selling for a friend and hadn't seen the racket, but described it as your friend described it to you, then you need to have a few choice words with your friend. Let him know the problems he caused you.
    4. I've sold friends' rackets before. It's best to have the racket in your hands before you put it up for sale. If the friend wants to keep playing with it, then he's not ready to sell it.
     
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  27. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    thank you

    first i want to thank everyone for their input. DireDesrire especially for his detailed and laboring posts. it really means a lot to me.

    now-mrmo1115 you and i both knwo the truth. i will be the first to admit i was not the best buyer. however you as a seller intentionally mislead me from beginning to the end.

    and my paypback was not through mrmo1115. i had to get on the phone for a long time to get my own paypack. he did NOT refund the money.

    get this: after i asked for a refund and he refused, i gave him one last chance and said "you know what why dont you just paypal me a partial amount that you think it's fair' and i will be willing to walk away. but he still refused to redeem himself!

    like i said i have all the evidence. email me and i can forward it to you. or better yet ask him he has the same coversations. i will let you guys decide. it will speak for itself.

    pics to come after i get home tonight. please feel free to retort mrmo1115 it will be funny.

    PS Mrmo1115 care to refund a partial amount still? i will let you pick a number....i discovered other things i could do beyond getting my money back that the authorities suggested i do.
     
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  28. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    and yes i feel like an idiot for trusting him.
     
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  29. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    he tried that with me. at one point he tells me he was just going to give the racket away since noone wanted it. the guts! i am sorry but i was mad, and those who know me knows i dont get mad like that
     
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  30. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    oh he sends me one picture which did not reveal the racket's condition. i will post it up here later you can decide for yourself.
     
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  31. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    what a great post. thank you so much. yea he kept bringing up the 'i am 14' excuse. what 14year old in this day and age doesnt know their way around the internet,etc. although having been scammed i feel like i am 10 for being so stupid. :(
     
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  32. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    dont you dare speak for me. and don't assume things you don't know.
     
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  33. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    he did NOT give me a refund. he refused it in fact. he even said 'go ahead post a negative feedback i don't care you can't do anything' LOL can you imagine.
     
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  34. TokyopunK

    TokyopunK Professional

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    Where is this free money coming from?

    You got a refund, he still has the money..... I am confused.
     
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  35. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    #35
  36. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    allow me to say that i got in contact with the proper authorities, and they helped me out:)

    edit: allow me to add that the authorities suggested i take further action against him as they identified this event as 'fraud' was the exact word they used....i am contemplating if i should really go through as they suggested.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
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  37. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    oh finally i guess you are welcome to everyone. someone had to be the guinea pig to save the rest of us here.

    again, i was not the best buyer. but his actions before and especially after is what really pissed me off. if he had refunded me the money i would have gladly left a fair feedback here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
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  38. In)SpiRe

    In)SpiRe Professional

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    Sorry if I'm not really contributing, but like someone else said, you can't blame ALL young people. I'm 15 myself and have done some transactions that went off very smoothly with no hitches. I don't even have all my references b/c we forgot to trade them after some deals (argh), but all in all I've had some great experiences buying and selling here.

    Also, zapvor, I also questioned him about one of his racquets that he stated was in 8.5/10 condition. He email me 2 pictures that showed the (first pic) racquet was as described, but taking a look at the second picture showed that it was clearly not. It had MANY scraped at 12, not including the bumperguard, just the top, and there were paint chips, etc... so I chose not to deal. I'm sorry you had to go through this and I hope everything turns out good for you in the end.
     
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  39. ThA_Azn_DeViL

    ThA_Azn_DeViL Semi-Pro

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    Wow you can not detect any conditions from that racquet pic, i'm definately on the sellers side, Dire's post certainly rung with truth, you wouldnt want to wait for pics obviously because you want the racquet before others.

    To the seller: I hope you can make better judgement next time, selling a friends racquet already puts you into a hole, and even though I am also a "minor" we should all be aware that reputation is something you dont want to lose on these boards.
     
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  40. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    i think you are contributing. thanks for your input. i agree with you-him being 14 shouldn't be that big of a factor. he's giving all your teens out there a bad name. but don't worry i will not stereotype the age group:)
     
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  41. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    thank you. like i said all the pics i post will speak for itself.
     
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  42. auzzieizm

    auzzieizm Semi-Pro

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    zapvor, its a shame, you are having to go through this. you cannot tell anything from that pic! i'm still looking out for lm prestiges for you though :)
     
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  43. SteveI

    SteveI Legend

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    Steve,

    Good advice...Sounds like this guy did not refund the cash. I am guessing PayPal froze his account (or Moms/Dads) and removed the funds.. or parents stepped in and did the right thing. BTW.. In am told PayPal can and will take your funds and freeze your account until they decide what to do.

    All I can say is YIKES again. I for one have enough equipment and will not be buying or trading unless it is with someone like yourself. I am done... sounds like the big auction side is safer these days... very sad to see all of this. Just not worth the time and effort.. and pain.

    This guy has more written about him the last two weeks than most have in their entire time on the TT site... Yikes again... Sorry to say.. but the first question you should ask the seller/buyer is "can you drive?" I know there are many good young members on this site but be very careful who you deal with.

    Regards,
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
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  44. zidane339

    zidane339 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
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    1,720
    Mrmo1115, by refusing to refund the money, has shown how he should not be dealt with. It was completely his fault, yet he won't accept the blame.

    Yes, some young teens may be responsible and mature enough to handle business tranasactions, but in this case I don't think so.
     
    #44
  45. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

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    This is true, Beav mentioned this before and now it comes out. This place (selling/trading) is getting worse.:(
     
    #45
  46. skraggle

    skraggle Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
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    Shame on me. Addressed:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=3011519#post3011519
     
    #46
  47. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
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    Zapvor, I assume you went the chargeback route to get your money back either through your credit card issuer or paypal. (I would suggest doing both if applicable.)

    FYI: A payback implies a revengeful act. A chargeback is filing a claim to get a refund.

    I recant my earlier suggestion to ban all minors. I would truly miss the extremely entertaining posts resulting from the train wreck deals some of you engage in with these bratty kids. They are pretty funny. As I wrote in the Trevor Neumann thread, some of you fellows must have selective amnesia regarding your own high school and college days and the things that went on as a matter of routine.

    As far as MrMo, Zapvor should make every effort to contact his parents and explain the circumstances of this transaction (including a link to this thread.) I imagine they have no idea what their lil' darling is up to when they aren't looking.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
    #47
  48. SteveI

    SteveI Legend

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    Nice Post,

    I guess I might have a bit of "selective amnesia" but on the other hand, I did not have the Internet or the funds/product to get myself in trouble. I also know my folks would have been a bit more aware of my dealings..had I had any. Had my dad discovered my less than perfect dealings, my Ipod and cell would have not be taken away. I would have suffered in other ways. Yes.. I am sure "they have no idea what their lil' darling is up to when they aren't looking". Hope some of this hits home..:)
     
    #48
  49. LanEvo

    LanEvo Hall of Fame

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    so i guess u would never deal with me huh?
     
    #49
  50. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    i just want to say i was really mad at the time. i am calmed down now.

    Mrmo1115 if you read this i apologize for being rude and mean to you, but i still think you deserve it. i hope you accept my apology. please don't do this to anyone else on here ok? this is a great community of tennis people.
     
    #50

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