Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by raging, Feb 5, 2013.
Murray suspects that Federer and himself are the only top 5 players that are clean.
And if Murry wants more blood doping tests he should start from himself.
Maybe I've mis-understood you? Did you mean that Murray shouuld be an exemplar on this? If so, I agree with you. But so should the rest of the top dogs - why do you think just Murray should set an e.g.?
Cause it wouldn't make sense. So Murray is asking for more doping tests and then he should back up "let's start with Djokovic and Federer". Doesn't make sense.
Apologies, but I'm still not sure what you're getting at mate. Murray has said that everyone should be tested more, including more blood tests - do you disagree with what he said? If so - why?
I was wondering if the suggestion was that Andy should start doing the testing himself! Now, I appreciate he's clearly read up on the subject lately, but I'm not sure he's qualified for that. There may also be a few conflict of interest concerns!
Are people really that unimaginative that they cannot understand why a person can find it annoying to be woken up in the early hours, get their bits out in front of a stranger to wee on demand, and then answer questions that appear silly? One of his complaints was being made to write down his name and address, when they'd turned up at his house in the first place. I can actually understand why they do that, but if it's not explained, then it's going to seem a waste of time. More so when it's urine testing, and hardly anyone is caught through urine testing, and when a person is caught red handed with the drugs themselves, they get let off with a lesser ban.
I see whinging about the testing as similar to moaning about airport security. Complaining that they don't have enough staff on, or that the staff were taking advantage of the power, or that you don't think they are even looking properly at the X-ray screen, and who would bomb a flight from x to y anyway, doesn't make you a terrorist. Finding it annoying that you've got to tell strangers where you are each day, or not thinking the system is effective, or that doping isn't enough of an issue to justify the inconvenience doesn't make you a doper.
Equally, is it that hard to believe that players, like members of the public, are realising just what can be done with PEDs and that the current system is ineffective, and so they don't need to be doping, or get caught doping for their reputation to be tarnished, or for their sport's image to be negatively effected? Once they've worked that out, is it surprising that some of them are going to request more is done when asked about it?
You need to be either very unimaginative, or a signed up member of the tin-foil hat brigade to find these things "odd", or proof of anything except that change is afoot.
It's a shame that it appears to be the players that are driving this change, but they are the ones with the most to lose if tennis becomes blighted. I won't blame those who are slow to react, as not all tennis will have been following the Lance Armstrong case closely, but it is only a matter of time before they all twig how serious it is, and that something needs to be done.
Offering to give up some prize money isn't that big a deal. If sponsors start to feel nervous around the sport, they'll suffer financially, but it does no harm to get that view on the record and to make it harder for the authorities to presume cost is an excuse for inaction.
you arent going to catch dopers by meeting them at noon on a day of their choosing.
i thought the rules were to be contacted between 6am and 11pm?
yes & most put down 6am as it is at the start of the day...
thats when the testers come!:twisted:
You aren't going to catch them by turning up at 6am either.
I'm not saying there should be no early morning visits, same as I don't think they should ditch airport security because newspapers have managed to smuggle dodgy packages past that security. However, I'm realistic to accept that drug testing and having to state where you will be each day will be annoying and players will inevitably moan about it.
Trying to make something out of players having a whinge about something that would annoy 99.9% of the population isn't just missing the point, it is diverting attention from the real issues.
It would be funny if they did testing after each match, and the quality of tennis dropped immediately!
That happened at I think the 89 Mr. Olympia, they announced testing, and everyone was smaller, and the smaller guys did better.
I don't understand all the fuss, these guy are innocent until proven guilty, they simply need even one season of testing, quality drops we know.
Murray is only responding to questions on a topical issue from inquisitive journalists, but I sense his suspicion is growing. His mother recently re-tweeted a comment from a journalist with regard to the Fuentes case and his association with Spanish tennis players, which I found rather interesting. I suspect team Murray might continue to voice their concerns with regard to the poor doping controls in the coming months. I hope Federer follows suit. Momentum is key.
Laura Robson was talking about how she'd been reading the book about the Armstrong scandal too, and how it was shocking/fascinating.
Whether they are all talking about it in public or not, I'm sure a lot of players and those around them have been talking about it to each other. I read somewhere that it was the talk of the locker rooms and behind the scenes at the Australian Open. Players will be asked about it, and will be expected to have an opinion. And no matter what that opinion is, someone is bound to complain that they are being naive, and/or been told to say that by PR people.
Pederer already did and continuing to do....whats the big deal?
Federer has consistently been in favor of more testing and has never complained about it. Murray OTOH has complained about it often in the past.
For what it's worth, I do think Murray is clean, and his complaints stemmed more from his actual annoyance with the procedure than an attempt to hide PEDs. However, his change of heart (at least publicly) is undeniable, unless your grasp of English is so poor you cannot understand what he actually said in those interviews.
It wasn't long ago when Murray considered OOC testing invasion of privacy. Now, when the thing's grown in the public' eye he calls for more stringent testing thus making himself look like an opportunistic weathercock.
I half agree. IMO, it's a weak grasp of English and/or logic if you don't understand that his comments now are contradicting his previous ones. As you say, that complaints about the procedures themselves do not equate to having a problem with doping controls as a concept.
To be fair to those jumping to conclusions, many of his comments, along with most players' comments on doping are frequently taken out of context and twisted to try to create more drama than actually exists. So his complaint about a player getting a reduced ban for providing information to the authorities became him complaining about players providing information, which paints a very different picture.
He's made no secret of his new concerns being in light of the Armstrong scandal, so I suppose you could say that is a change of heart, but more that he's realised what could have been going on around him, rather than him suddenly claiming that doping is bad.
IMO, getting bogged down by which players have moaned publicly about the inconvenience of the whereabouts form or feeling like it's an invasion of privacy is a red herring. As far as I can tell, no sane person would enjoy the process, so I fully expect all of them have griped at some point in time. The only difference is that some of them did it more publicly than others.
The question isn't whether or not filling in the forms, and letting strangers into your home to watch you wee is an invasion of privacy, because it is. The question is whether or not that invasion of privacy is justified. To be justified, two requirements must be met. The first that there is a reason to do it like that, which I think has now been demonstrated. The second is that they get useful data and do something with it, which has not yet been demonstrated. Obviously, urine testing is better than nothing, and I'm sure limits doping, but we all now know that testing could be a lot better.
Think of it as being like random road-side checks. We've all driven past them, and we all hope we won't get called in, but if we are called in, we'd like to be sure they are doing something useful. If the police are doing random breathalyser tests, the machine had better be working, and if they find someone over the limit, they need to take action. If they spend time inspecting our cars to check it is roadworthy, I'd want them to be doing proper checks, not just going through the motions for five minutes so they can tick a box. If they want to search my car, I'd want them to be looking for illegal items, not just rifling through my bags, paying special attention to my underwear or other personal, but perfectly legal items.
On top of that, I'd want the officers to be polite, to acknowledge that it is an inconvenience, but to explain to me why they are doing it and what they hope to achieve. If they did that, most people would accept it with reasonable grace at the time, perhaps even be thankful that these things are being done to keep us all safer on the roads, but I bet a decent proportion would still have a bit of a moan when they got to wherever they were going ten minutes late.
So much for he and Nadal being friends. lol
I see murray being on PEDs more than Nadal or Djok
As proven by exhausted Murray in the AO 2013 final as opposed to back to back 5 set slam king Djokovic.
More blood testing is coming, the ITF plans to have extra measures installed by the end of the year. The Fuentes case, the constant questioning of tennis players on doping, it is clear that this will gain momentum.
More news will break on Armstrong, it is only a matter of time.
This will fuel the flames further.
I think that it is logical that the players & the media are driving this.
They are at the source & get every rumour, suspicion & run with it.
A bit like on here!
We get this Spanish clay freak in 2005 and this amazing Djok who magically improves in 2 months for 2011.
Also another Spanish player currently at #4 which just seems to getting more out of his limited game than anyone else.
These in a way do not pass the Baseball home run smell test.
Do I think 90% of the top 250 takes a little something extra? I do. It's easy to cheat the system. Everyone knows how. You just need to pay enough to get the doctor who knows how to.
Lance was never caught by a drug test. Think about that one.
For anyone interested in the phenomenon of confirmation bias, the doping debate provides plenty of real world examples.
More tests won't help. Doping techniques will always be ahead.
Djokodal Fan, I don't see how Federer can be on anything. His game has be declining for the last 5 years. If he is doping, he needs to find some better dope.
Separate names with a comma.