Murray is on the up

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by batz, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    No one's ever denied this, but after watching the final one cannot help but see that there are still holes in Murray's game where he can get exposed vs an elite opponent like Djokovic. Had Federer played abit better in the SF I'm not sure if Murray wins that one either, and you and I both know Federer did not play anywhere close to his best there, and Murray was playing good enough to close that out in straights.

    Should Nadal return and be healthy, Murray would have to go through at least two out of three elite guys, which is something that is extremely difficult to do. Not saying it can't be done, but I don't think Murray has the firepower nor the offensive weapons to do this. He could possibly beat one guy, but he'll be gassed in the end when facing the second.

    Also, Murray in the past has shown that like Nadal, he is susceptible to players that are 'hot'. Wawrinka at the USO is a good example of this, as was the match against Roddick at Wimbledon in the SF, etc. When a player gets hot and gets going, Murray usually resorts to defense which more often than not is a bad idea. He hasn't been knocked out too often because of it, but that is a vulnerability in his game.
     
    #51
  2. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    He won against federer mainly cuz of his monster serve 21 aces + many serves down the line..if only he could have maintained that serve
     
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  3. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Good to be back, batz.

    Happy to see there's still quality posting in the General Pro Player section.

    Sad to see that the Murray discussions aren't in the Former Pro Player section, yet :twisted:
     
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  4. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Now that's what I'm talking about!:)
     
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  5. Legend of Borg

    Legend of Borg Legend

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    Are you Maximo?
     
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  6. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    This may or may not be true but I think all nonbiased observers can see murray fans have the thinnest skin. You can see this by judging on the murray threads batz makes alone.

    Murray fans show some class instead of bitterness the better player won on the day (most other days too) pick up the whiskey bottle and drown your sorrows.

    The final in aus showed us that under normal circumstances djokovic is on a different level to murray and would have won the us open but for a act of god, so dont try and turn the tornado like conditions into a joke murray fans, be thankful he has one due to this unforseen act of god. If Nadal had played he would have probably won it so maybe you should count your double blessings. ;)
     
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  7. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]
     
    #57
  8. 6-1 6-3 6-0

    6-1 6-3 6-0 Banned

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    Murray, including the rest of the top 4, had better PRAY they don't draw Rafael Nadal in their quarter at RolandGarros2013. Because if that happens, it's an immediate quarter-final loss.

    This is looking to be one of the most exciting RolandGarros tournaments ever. And when Nadal wins, he'll have a record of 59-1, or 59 matches won out of 60 (a record). That's about 98.3%, far better than any player has ever been able to produce at ANY grand slam. :p
     
    #58
  9. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    LOL!
    ..........
     
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  10. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    To think a few months ago he had lost all his major finals without even winning a set. Now he's Olympic champion, US Open champion and pushing the best players in the World in the big matches.

    Those are huge strides in a fairly short space of time, who knows where he'll be in another 6 months!
     
    #60
  11. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I love British humor! Fun op batz. I'm still on the fence about Muzza though. It is true that his consistency in slams has improved BUT (there are always some of those, aren't there?), the only slam he has won has a bit of an asterisk to it (it's the 3 day in a row the other finalist had to wriggle through that does it for me- especially since the match still had to go to a 5th - Shouldn't he have pummeled the poor bugger in those wretched circumstances? I don't give a fig about the wind, if you can't handle wind on a court, then you should be looking for another job. Isn't that what Judy told Andy after IW 2009 BTW? :) )
    And he still has an appalling record in slam finals. I know he just slay the Fed dragon at AO but he didn't manage that feat in the W final. What is he now? 1 victory in 6 slam finals? When does he improve that stat? Because it still looks unsatisfactory . (granted, he's better off making the finals than not but still)
    + in Wimbledon, he had always lost to Nadal. Is he gonna start losing to him again when Nadal gets back and Rosol retreats inside his cave (presumably)? That's a legit question.
    My other problem with Murray is: what's up with the masters? No title last year. He needs to fix that. 3 titles total even if the 3 include a slam doesn't look like future #1 resume and doesn't look that much on the up either. Murray has won up to 6 titles a season in the past. He has to keep the foot on the pedal throughout the year, not just 2 months in the summer.
    The 3rd problem I have is: WTF. Come on! Murray is a hard court specialist (won most of his titles there) and he doesn't even have a final at WTF? Has a worse record there than Nadal? Not acceptable for a #1 contender.
    And the last problem I have with the brave Scot is: clay. So far, he's been the least competitive of the big 4 on that surface. Never made a final at RG, never scored a win vs Nadal (both Fed and Djoko have), never won a single clay title. I can forgive losing to Ferrer at RG (although given Ferrer's level in slams, I'm still gonna cringe a bit), but to Raonic? Seriously? Muzza has to sort that out because all of Nadal, Fed and Djoko are pretty formidable on the red stuff. And Murray won't get away with a blatant allergy to the dirt (not with 3 masters and 1 slam on the line)

    OK, so that's all the changes I need to see from him in 2013 if he's really gonna knock on the door of the big league boys. Both Murray and Lendl have their work cut out for them. Good luck with it!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  12. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks for the constructive criticism V. All seems reasonable to me. Let's see if he can step it up.
     
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  13. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Batz, you're such a great poster , I almost want Murray to succeed just for your sake. You'd totally deserve it (too bad I'm a Nadalovic fan he he :twisted: )
     
    #63
  14. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    :oops: you're making me blush V.

    Meh. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. Rainingaces for example hates the very keys that I type with. (Actually, I think he hates Murray for being Scottish in charge of a gold medal but he just projects on to me). ;)
     
    #64
  15. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I don't know about rainingaces but I always enjoy your posts. You respect other people's opinions and you have a great sense of humour. (yeah, that's my own criteria for poster goatness :wink:)
     
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  16. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    that sounds a bit racist..:)
     
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  17. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Scottish is not a race :???:
     
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  18. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    ok,then he is stereotyping against Scottish ppl..:)
     
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  19. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    If you take out the extreme opinions about Murray, I'd say you would land close to reality. Potential is not as good as actual results, no matter the fervency of expectation from Murray's fan base. The reality is that Murray has 1 slam to Novak's 6, Nadal's 11 and Roger's 17. The only other slam winner in the top 10 is JMDP. Murray is closer in age to Nadal and Djokovic than JMDP so it's valid to question Murray's relative success.

    That said, those who seek to diminish Murray as a player are way off the mark too. As batz so correctly pointed, Murray has featured prominently on the biggest stages in the recent past. There is no reason to discount his ascendancy just because he did not win the latest slam. A few games here and there and he would be sitting champ on two slams and an Olympic gold.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  20. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Last I checked, the WTF is bigger than the Olympics.
     
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  21. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL What a comeback! :lol:
     
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  22. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    What's your point? Where did I say it wasn't?

    Now you've mentioned it - when was the last time you saw Roger cry after winning a semi at the WTF? When have you heard Roger state at the start of the year that one of his main targets was winning the WTF?

    You might think that WTF > OG - but I doubt that the majority of the players, fans and pundits would agree with you.

    That's not to demean the WTF - in a normal year it's the 5th biggest event - but in an Olympic year? I'm not so sure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  23. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    You're right Sid - but it is an ethnicity and he is suggesting that this ethnic group all share a negative character trait - and that's the essence of racism.

    Put it this way, if he were to call me a Scottish so and so within earshot of a policemen in the UK he would probably be arrested for a racially aggravated offence.
     
    #73
  24. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    He did actually say that this year. Said he wanted to be in peak shape for WTF this year. Just sayin.. :wink:

    No doubt he wanted the OG though, given especially, his inability to secure a DC for his country.
     
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  25. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    from AO 11 to USO 11, he was certainly on the up. but for the last 4 months, from USO 11 to AO 11, he was on the stagnant :)

    over all though, he is still on the up swing. his Wimby Final, OG gold, and USO win are still carrying some momentum, especially when one compares the last 12 months to the 12 months prior.
     
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  26. raging

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    Agreed with above.
    I think it's gr8 to give the haters their own thread...
    Muzza's presser was clear...not good enough, no excuses...
    He acknowledged he didn't close out 2nd set (personally though, I didn't expect him to lead 2 sets to love).
    I picked & wanted a 5 setter, Novak was too good.

    I don't want to overplay Lendl's influence but the similarity between them is pretty ironic...ugly, bad teeth, mother a shocker(tennis coach), not in same league as other guys, pusher with no weapons(maybe a stretch here, he only pushed against Mats & the rest on clay but that was how he was taught to play)...:)

    Ivan learnt back then that the only way to silence the critics was... to win!

    so... how many majors did Ivan win again?:)
     
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  27. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Okay, my mistake. I thought you weren't counting the WTF.

    Now onto the "Federer crying" part, as if that means anything. But I'll get to it.

    Federer only cares about the Olympics because he didn't win it yet. As a young guy coming up, what do you think Federer would have most wanted to win? Wimbledon or the French Open? Wimbledon. ANYBODY would want Wimbledon over the French Open. But, BOOM, it's 2008. What would Federer want most? French Open. Why? Because he had 5 Wimbledons already. Does it mean French Open > Wimbledon? No. It's the same with the WTF and the Olympics. You think Federer would want the Olympic Gold over the WTF if he didn't have 6 freakin' WTF titles already? How pathetic would it be for a player not to win the WTF to call himself the GOAT? Tennis at the Olympics, on the other hand, has relatively no history to speak of. It's played on different surfaces at different places once every 4 years. You call that history? It holds 750 ATP points. You call that "big"? In pure Tennis terms, the Olympic Gold is nothing, NOTHING compared to the Tennis Masters Cup. One would have to be deluded to say otherwise. But as a sporting achievement, factoring in patriotism and national pride, it is arguably more coveted. But, I repeat, in no way is it even close to being bigger as far as Tennis, competition, and the challenge is concerned.

    That said, Federer has an Olympic Gold. It is worth no less than Murray's. That's how the Olympics works. Unlike Tennis, where a player would trade 5 Doubles Grand Slams for 1 Singles Grand Slam.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
    #77
  28. timnz

    timnz Legend

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    He definitely is on the up. Please elaborate what you mean about him making the final 4 out of the last 5 big events. The last 5 were AO, WTF, USO, Wimbledon and the French Open. He made 3 of those finals. Now if you mean the olympics - it isn't one of the big five - it is the number 15 event of 2012 (750 points). Still a good record none the less.
     
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  29. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    OK - let's leave Fed to one side. How come Delpo said his bronze was as big as if not bigger than his USO win? How come Novak made it one of his priorities of 2012? How come Rafa texted Murray after he won it that he'd never win anything bigger? How come Andre says it's his proudest achievement?

    Don't tell me how unimportant Olympic tennis is mate - tell the players.
     
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  30. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Patriotism.

    And of course Nadal and Agassi would say that. Federer and Sampras don't have it, that's one way they're gonna look better.
     
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  31. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Look mate- you can look to diminish Olympic tennis all you want - that's your prerogative. But you are at odds with current players, former legends, and the general tennis commentariat.

    Can you explain why so many players made the Olympics a major priority last year if it wasn't one of the big events?
     
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  32. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    This is an infantile argument - you can do better than that.
     
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  33. Prisoner of Birth

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    Because it was being played at the Mecca, so to speak, for one thing. It looked like a nice companion piece to the biggest prize of all: Wimbledon. It wouldn't have received quite as much attention if it was being played in Japan. Let's see if the next (Tennis) Olympics gets as much attention.
     
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  34. Prisoner of Birth

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    Course not. Why do you think Sampras went on and on about the "Slam record" (he still does)? Because he had it. That's how it works. Don't be naive.
     
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  35. raging

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    Ask Pete what is missing from his playing record... it will be RG & Olympics.

    No reason to talk about it unless someone asks you.:)

    Sampras was being asked about his Grand Slam Record...now he is being asked about his regrets.

    He certainly won't be asked how many times he won the WTF...
     
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  36. Prisoner of Birth

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    Nobody says Sampras is missing the Olympics. He didn't even bother playing.
     
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  37. raging

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    sorry mate! he played in 1992 - Barcelona I think, lost to Andrei Cherkasov in 5 sets. Clay not his best surface I know.

    But they said that about Agassi too! :)

    Ask Pete about that match...Barcelona still hurts.
     
    #87
  38. Prisoner of Birth

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    Oh, my mistake. Anyway, I doubt he's losing any sleep over that. I'm sure he's way more bothered about the French Open.
     
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  39. raging

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    No worries on Olympics but Pete has also said he would have loved to have played the Olympic event at Wimbledon on grass (funny that!).
    The point is that to the players it is important, regardless of how many points the ITF gives them.

    The Olympic Gold is important to the players now & for our purposes a good signpost that Murray is on the up. The US Open & AO final are 2 more indicators.

    We can only judge Murray on his improved play & the fact he is getting into finals of major events. Djokovic, Federer, Nadal & all the rest of the tour are going to be in the way at the very next event.

    Murray will be even hungrier for a win.
     
    #89
  40. axel89

    axel89 Banned

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    just to prove batz's point When delpo won the bronze medal he said it was a bigger achievment than the uso
     
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  41. raging

    raging Professional

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    #91
  42. Prisoner of Birth

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    Murray is certainly on the up. No disputes there.
     
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  43. Mainad

    Mainad Talk Tennis Guru

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    Good article from Lendl. I think he had it spot on.

    I liked these comments best:

    "Lendl said: “Other than when Andy lost to Novak here in 2011 he has always played the No.1 player in the world in the finals, those are difficult to win.

    “Andre Agassi beat Rainer Schuettler (world No.36), I beat Miloslva Mecir. I’m not saying they were bad players.

    “However, they were not No.1 at the time they were in the finals."


    That should put his GS final losses into some kind of proper perspective. Unlike some of the armchair critics on here, Lendl actually knows what he's talking about!
     
    #93
  44. raging

    raging Professional

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    Oh C'mon Mainad I like being an armchair critic, retired from the game 7 years ago.

    That's the great thing about Talk Tennis, everybody has an opinion & should be allowed to have a crack.

    Sometimes it would be better to have a few facts in there but why spoil a good argument?:)
     
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  45. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Although i agree with Batz, Delpo is a clown who didnt actually think That still 6 months after the olympics.
     
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  46. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Do you mind if I ask what your ranking was mate?
     
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  47. Mainad

    Mainad Talk Tennis Guru

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    Don't worry, I wasn't trying to cramp your style. You clearly have a sense of humour and perspective. It will always be a pleasure to exchange opinions with you. It's just the humourless, hate-filled and/or relentlessly negative types that I was aiming at. For some reason, Murray seems to attract more than his fair share of them. They always manage to push my buttons. I guess I shouldn't allow them to so much (my Ignore List is already getting a bit chock-full).

    But I DO enjoy a good banter mixed in with some humour. Just so long as you remember to throw in the odd fact now and again!

    :)
     
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  48. raging

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    batz, I couldn't hit my hat!

    Another one of those dumb tennis coaches you keep going on about.
    Coached & played Team Tennis in germany in the vets.
    Knew it was time to retire when I lost in straight sets to a Brit. out in Oz at the world vets!
    Now I just coach.

    but I love this game & enjoy the banter on this forum.
    cheers to you & Mainad for making it a bit of fun.
     
    #98
  49. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    More than most of us can dream about mate. I make a decent living but I don't particularly love what I do. It must be fantastic to make your living from sport. That's just the coolest thing IMO.
     
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  50. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    correction. This is Murray 0.5, we are yet to see that 2.0 version. When that time comes, the other three will wish they were in another era..
     

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