Murray OVERRATTED

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by nadal, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. nadal

    nadal Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    It is not feelings but it is facts and here it is:
    The number of matches the top 4 faced one of the top 20:

    Rafael Nadal 15 matches (12 different players)
    Roger Federer 9 (7 players)
    Novak Djokovic 12 (9 players)
    Andy Murray 10 (7 players) won 8 (2 of them against injured Nadal in Rotterdam and against injured Verdasco in Miami)

    Even though he won tournaments and he wasn't tested:
    Rotterdam: Nadal played Tsonga and Monfils before reaching the final while Murray didn't play any top 20 till beating injured Nadal in the final.

    Indian Wells: Nadal played Nalbandian , Del Potro and Roddick before the final while Murray played Robredo(clay courter) and Federer before falling to Rafa in the final.

    I am also surprised of people tipping him to play well on clay and compete with Rafa, how come? His record is 11-14 and had never won a clay tournament.

    It took Nadal years to improve his hardcourt play and to win a slam although his record was far better than murray's record on clay and he had also won some hard court tournaments so how come murray be one of the favourites on clay all of a sudden as people say in a lot of forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Besides his movement is bad on clay and the ball bounce high and his serve is neutralized (Agassi was a good baseliner maybe better than murray and was not good on clay).

    On grass he will do well but not as Roger or Rafa, both are far better than him and also the ball bounces very low and won't help his defensive style.

    To cut it short murray is a hardcourt specialist and even his success on hard courts in the beginning of the season was kind of luck as he didn't face likes of Nalbandian, Tsonga, Monfils,Wawrinka,Simon and Gonzalez as Rafa faced.
     
    #1
  2. Ocean Drive

    Ocean Drive Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,714
    I like the way you say Agassi was "maybe" a better baseliner than Murray.
     
    #2
  3. cwalbridge

    cwalbridge New User

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    well murray is an overrated brit, tim henman was better than him:oops::shock::mad:
     
    #3
  4. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    Great post I have been preaching it for months.
     
    #4
  5. Serpententacle

    Serpententacle Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,561
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I can respect Murray's game, but I agree with him being overrated.
     
    #5
  6. JediMindTrick

    JediMindTrick Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,490
    I only agree that Murray is overrated because he hasn't won any majors. Once (if) he does that, then he has the right to be hyped.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
    #6
  7. Telepatic

    Telepatic Legend

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    7,167
    Location:
    Serbia, Belgrade
    Its only a bandwagon hype and all, you`ll see when clay season and grass come, he`ll be losing more stamina, and some confidence, and by hardcourt season, he will get big pressure to defend his big points so its just temporary in my opinnion.
     
    #7
  8. maximo

    maximo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,327
    Location:
    London
    Its Nadal, no wonder he's jealous of Murray
     
    #8
  9. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    Yep im pretty sure Rafa is jealous of Murray's zero slams whilst having 6 himself and Murray's substandard clay and grass game.
     
    #9
  10. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    Murray has never played a full season at the top of the men's game last year he did nothing in the first half of the year so he was fresh during the second half whilst Nadal, Fed and Djoker weren'nt this year he will be more tired and he has alot of points to defend in the second half of the year.
     
    #10
  11. Motherwasp

    Motherwasp Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    482
    Location:
    London
    One of the worst threads i've seen on here. You don't get to No.4 in the world and 3 masters series titles at aged 21 by being overrated.

    Your logic insults me.
     
    #11
  12. KFwinds

    KFwinds Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,319
    Most of your argument actually proves that he's NOT overrated...

    He got a pretty nice win yesterday as well ;)
     
    #12
  13. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    Well when you here things like he's currently the best player in the world when he has a poor record on clay and average on grass he is overrated.
     
    #13
  14. Motherwasp

    Motherwasp Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    482
    Location:
    London
    What is this based on?


    WHAT?!


    Are you kidding me? Agassi won the French open, made the final on two other occasions and made semi's twice, not to mention a Rome masters shield and 4/5 other clay court titles.

    Constructing a point and not playing as offensive as some other players does not make his style defensive. I suggest you watch the Nadal/Murray 2008 US Open Semi-final to see his "defensive style".
     
    #14
  15. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,602

    Possibly the most infantile, puerile, one-eyed assessment of Murray I've ever seen on here - and I've had the misfortune to read Cesc Fabregas' posts!

    This over-rated guy (over-rated in what way incidentally?), is he the same guy who since last year's Wimbledon has the best win loss record on tour (57-7)? The guy who has won 3 of the last 5 masters events and making final and QF of the other 2? Is it the same guy who has the best win/loss record on tour for 2009 to date (26-2)? The same guy who is the only man to win 3 titles and make 4 finals so far this season? The same guy who is the only player to have beaten 3 of the top 4 this season? The only guy to make back to back masters finals?

    Are we talking about the same guy? I think the OP needs to STEP AWAY FROM THE BONG.

    Please, for the hard of thinking, I know Murray hasn't won a slam yet, so please don't bore the @ss ofF us all by repeating this, like some kind of anti-murray mantra. It's just a matter of time. I know it, the rest of the tennis world knows it, and deep down, the OP and Cesc Fabregas' of this world knw it too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
    #15
  16. Babo

    Babo New User

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    Arizona
    Agree completely, does everyone just sit around and try to come up with new ways to make bad threads?
     
    #16
  17. tahiti

    tahiti Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    840
    Another load of nonsense. Murray is going to make you eat your words. I'm not saying he'll do well on clay, probably not as well as on hardcourt, but he has no points to defend and I think he'll fair well on grass.

    Murray has a great game, has been consistent of late and is beating a lot of top 10 players so where is that overrrated?
     
    #17
  18. crazylevity

    crazylevity Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,978
    And I might add, the only reason he hasn't beaten all 4 is that he can't beat himself.
     
    #18
  19. Federer4life

    Federer4life Guest

    Could not agree more
     
    #19
  20. gj011

    gj011 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,548
    Location:
    Back from prison
    Murray is neither overrated nor underrated. He is treated just about right.
    Djokovic is underrated, and Roddick, Verdasco, Tsonga and other heroes for the day are way overrated on this board together with the current Federer.
     
    #20
  21. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318


    Actually Nadal has

    Federer- At the Australian
    Djoker- Davis cup
    Murray- Indian Wells
     
    #21
  22. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,602

    I stand corrected Cesc - I'd forgot about DC.

    He's still beat the other members of the big 4; unlike a couple of other guys I could mention :wink:
     
    #22
  23. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,639
    Location:
    NC, USA
    he speaks of murray not having to play any top players.. how bout miami.. did nadal play anyone of caliber .. and win? um.. no.


    get off the nadal bandwagon and open your eyes.. murray is the one player on tour with a chance to catch and pass nadal all around over the next few seasons
     
    #23
  24. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    deltox how is Nadal a bandwagon the guy has 6 majors and is world number 1?
     
    #24
  25. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    6,231
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    quit being such a baby just because your boy got taken down by DelPo.

    I see Nadal on the receiving ends of a Murray spanking before the end of the year.
     
    #25
  26. skip1969

    skip1969 Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,467
    Location:
    Pleasantville
    give it a couple of weeks. then he'll be underrated. then he'll be overrated again. then underrated.

    every player on the tour goes through this here on ttw, depending on whether he won or lost his last match.

    *yawn*
     
    #26
  27. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,602
    Have you always been a master of understatement?

    Had any of those guys you listed achieved what Murray has by the age of 21?
     
    #27
  28. nadal

    nadal Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    guys he is very lucky, what if he faced Tsonga in IW or Nalbandian in Miami?
    he would have lost against both and if he passed them it would affect his run because it will be a difficult win.

    also what makes me angry his words that he will be number one!!!!!! only for winning best of 3 matches and falling in best of 5 what if the masters were like old days 5 sets
     
    #28
  29. SaintClaires

    SaintClaires Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    New York
    What about this guy?


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
    #29
  30. nadal

    nadal Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    also what will hinder him from being number 1 is his mentality, never admitting that the opponent was better like in AO against Verdasco the virus issue rise all of a sudden and in IW the wind was the reason as if Nadal was born on wind(it was a condition for both)

    he is short term thinking and this is obvious in his play he keeps running on all the points and this will exhauste him (just don't say Nadal do like him, Nadal runs on some points not all the points he doesn't run on overhead smashes like murray)

    also one of the things revealing his short term thinking what he did in the masters cup insisting to beat federer so not to meet him again and what he wants happen after being kicked by Davydenko(i missed this guy much)!!!!!!!
     
    #30
  31. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,602
    He had the worst draw out of top 4 when it was made. Anyway, if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle. Murray can only play the guy in front of him. Had he been winning titles without playing guys in the top 10 then you might have a point. Fact is he's beaten Roger, Rafa and Novak to win his 3 titles. You call that lucky if you like.
     
    #31
  32. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    I honestly think Murray is going to have a horrible clay court season he ground strokes aren't made for clay, his serve is too flat and his movement which is his best asset in worst on clay and see a lot of second and third round losses for him.
     
    #32
  33. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,602

    Murray had 2 second round and 3 third round exits last year on clay. You are basically saying that he will replicate last year's clay court performance.

    Cesc - can you REALLY not see that Murray is simply a better player now than this time last year?
     
    #33
  34. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    On clay no he has improved his serve, fitness and forehand but all those improvments were for his hardcourt game not clay.
     
    #34
  35. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,602
    So being fitter, having a better serve and a better topspin forehand won't help on clay then?:shock:

    OK.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
    #35
  36. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    His topspin forehand is nothing to get excited about and its the power element that has improved.
     
    #36
  37. shadows

    shadows Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    8,034
    Location:
    England
    lol such lies xD

    AO interview
    Q. Clearly you're not a hundred percent. Exactly how do you feel and how did it affect you during the match?

    ANDY MURRAY: No, I mean, I didn't feel terrible at all. You know, I had my chances. He served incredible in the fourth and fifth sets. So, you know, he deserves the credit for the win.

    I mean, you know, even though I didn't, you know, play my best, in the second set and the beginning of the fourth set, you know, I had chances to get back into the fourth set. Also had a chance to go up in the fifth set.

    You know, he served huge. You know, he started serving like, 215 plus on a lot of his first serves. The fourth set, I think he served like 93% first serves. Sometimes you've just got to say too good, and he played better than me.

    Murray clearly admitted that Verdasco deserved to have won and refused to blame it on being ill lol

    As for IW I didn't see the final, but from Murrays comments in the interview it seems he states that Nadal dealt with the conditions much better than him and that Rafas better footwork was vital for dictating the points. He doesn't say Rafa won because of the wind, he says he won because he played better in the wind.
     
    #37
  38. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318


    To Murray's credit he usually doesn't make excuses about loses.
     
    #38
  39. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,602

    You're forever posting that Murray can't generate power off his forehand, glad to see you've let that one go.

    I never said Murray's topspin forehand was anything to get excited about. I said that having an improved topspin forehand was A Good Thing. You seem to think that it won't make any difference.

    We'll see.
     
    #39
  40. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    5,435
    Location:
    England
    Well after reading alot of what nadal has to say in this thread, I thought he was probably lacking a bit of knowledge.. after reading his comment about the Verdasco match at the Australian Open i'm sure of it :|

    He's actually making things up now lol. Someone post a nice picture of a train before he comes up with something else.
     
    #40
  41. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    He has improved the power of his forehand but he does still struggle to generate pace look at when Nadal sliced to his forehand in the Indian Wells final.
     
    #41
  42. nadal

    nadal Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    sorry guys for wrong informations but his stuborness on beating federer in masters cup is true isn't it?
     
    #42
  43. ezdude1970

    ezdude1970 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    542
    Murray is a force in todays ATP, he has an amazing game that translates well on the hardcourts, also Miami's hard courts are as close to clay as one can find, and Murray did well there.

    Murray should simply do well based on the fact that other guys (Federer and Djokovic) are fading, so he only has Nadal to compete with. Murray showed so far that on his best he can beat Nadal.

    In summary we should see in couple weeks how well Murray does on clay. I would ignore Monte Carlo, because it is a true dirtballer tournament, and lets see how well he does in Rome where the offensive tennis usually excells, the same could be said about FO.
     
    #43
  44. ezdude1970

    ezdude1970 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    542
    IW should be ruled out from any kind of consideration, with the 50 MpH wind, Murray stood no chance.
     
    #44
  45. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    Miami is nothing like clay its medium pace and low bouncing Indian Wells is more like clay.
     
    #45
  46. ezdude1970

    ezdude1970 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    542
    he reached the final there as well, and it is my understanding there are different types of clay.
     
    #46
  47. BestLefty UK

    BestLefty UK Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    499
    Location:
    LDN
    Just be thankful that you Americans don't have to hear Mark Petchey singing his praises every other sentence... even when Murray isn't involved at all, you'll hear Mark Petchey somehow bring up the subject of Andy Murray and how "great" he is. I understand Murray is a good player and that he has potential to win majors but don't talk about him as if he is the best player ever to grace the earth.
     
    #47
  48. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    8,318
    It really annoys me when Murray is playing and Petchy doesn't give credit to his opponant other than that Petchy is a pretty good pundit.
     
    #48
  49. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,602
    He can go a bit OTT, but I guess it's understandable given their history.
     
    #49
  50. nadal

    nadal Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    56


    Monte Carlo is the same like FO, beside murray is good on hardcourts because he reacts to the shot needs no power while in clay he needs power to make the shot.
     
    #50

Share This Page