My forehand, any anything appreciated.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by pyrokid, Aug 21, 2010.

  1. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    I like it a lot right now. It's able to be very precise, flatten out, hit tons of spin, do basically whatever I want. And all while being REALLY consistent.

    But last time I posted a vid you guys posted things that my coach and I didn't notice that ended up helping, so I'll give this whole shebang another go.

    Comments appreciated.
    Back angle.

    Also, the scream thing at the end was some crazy five foot man on the other side of the divider between these 4 courts and the ones on the other side.

    Not me.

    Jus' sayin'.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
    #1
  2. GetBetterer

    GetBetterer Hall of Fame

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    Superb. But don't lie about that screaming moan at the end there, we know it was you. :D

    I've never liked that thing when people have their racket head parallel to the ground on the take-back simply because everyone I've talked to has always run into elbow pain, and whenever someone asks me to do it, I say no, even if it's a coach.
     
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  3. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Are you a table tennis player by any chance? Your FH looks a tad like a ping pong FH loop swing -- the hips and torso tend to have the very same rotation. For a tennis FH, the hips and torso are somewhat offset -- the motion is a bit more of a sequence of overlapping links rather than a single rotation.
     
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  4. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    pyrokid - nice ball smacking. you'll be a bit more efficient if you rotate thru the core more. it's probably not a big deal now but prolonged rallies with good competition will drain the tank quicker.
     
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  5. ttbrowne

    ttbrowne Hall of Fame

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    If you are not going to play all of your matches flat-footed, practice on the balls of your feet, moving just like you would in a match.
     
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  6. hawk eye

    hawk eye Hall of Fame

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    Very much a table tennis fh loop indeed, with a some more extension and follow thorough. To SA's comments I would add, from your backswing on you should drop your racket head a little bit more naturaly to trace a c-shape kind of loop. This can help you gain momentum and fluidness in your stroke.
     
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  7. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    Do I do that? I couldn't quite tell. Isaw it go parallel for a second, but then I didn't see it any more.
    Haha no I'm the worst table tennis player you'll even see. So I should try to separate the shoulders and hips?
    It does look like less rotation than I usually hit, I'll have to remember to take my shoulders through more consciously... I wonder what caused that. I hope it was just because I was tired.

    I was totally drained at this point.
    The only reason I was filming here was because this was one of the few times my dad was willing to use the camera and film me, so I wanted to take advantage of it. If I had had a choice I would have picked a time where I was fresher, but I just needed to see my strokes and this did that.
     
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  8. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    pyro - were you hitting against a backboard or something like that?
     
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  9. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    Ball machine.
     
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  10. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    My forehand has been changed a lot lately so it's still really in transition, so different parts show at different times. I was hitting a bit flatter that session. That might have had to do with not enough drop down.

    I started off hitting with more of a loop, but I started hitting it late for some reason so I went to less of a loop.

    So I should try and keep the loop I guess?
     
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  11. AhmedD

    AhmedD Semi-Pro

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    I think you need to go under the ball for more topsin and to get more net clearance, from what I'm seeing your playing very flat and your not brushing under the ball much.
     
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  12. Cross-court

    Cross-court Rookie

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    That's one weird-looking forehand.
     
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  13. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    I was hitting flatter than usual that day. But it was still nowhere near flat. Those FHs cleared the net by about 4-6 feet at around 70 MPH. I don't usually hit that hard in a match, but it's a ball machine so I was working on getting my average speed up.

    Do you want me to get a gun out on my next vid so you can see they're just going a little fast to come down quickly?
    Maybe set the cam up where I hit the balls so you can see the kick off the bounce?

    It's not an insane amount of topspin, but it's more than the vast majority of juniors I play. It's where I get my consistency from because I really am not that great at height control.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
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  14. coyfish

    coyfish Hall of Fame

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    Big forehands but if you really want quality opinions than you should upload a video of you rallying or a more involved ball machine pattern. You are waiting for the ball and hitting hard enough to make you stumble a few times. My opinion off that vid is that you are twisting too much. Not an efficient shot that will be very difficult to utilize when you are moving in a point. Look at pro forehands.
     
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  15. theZig

    theZig Rookie

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    your stroke is good, your understanding of spacing and "chain" mechanics are great, but the one thing you're lacking (and note i'm speaking in ideals, you're still eons ahead of most people) is weight transfer.

    your weight transfer goes from your outer foot (left) to your inner foot (right) on just about every shot, and that's not entirely wrong. as you already know, and will most likely argue that you are already doing, your weight should be going forward through the ball. to give you an idea in a diagram, the weight should be going forward like this | but at the moment your weight is going like / .

    what's the difference, you ask? your weight IS going forward, afterall. and you're right, it is. the point is, however, that you want your weight going forward and most importantly where you want it to. to get an idea of how to accomplish this, go ahead and stand up right now with your feet and shoulders width. transfer weight between your two legs, by lifting one leg up, leaning towards that same side, put that leg down, and then switch. it'll kind of feel like a penguin that's waddling, but going side to side. this is essentially what you are doing on a tennis court. stand up again, and this time when you lift your right leg up (left leg for you righties reading this) and lean forward (almost like you're going to fall) and then catch yourself with the right leg; it should feel similar to a lunge. notice the position your feet are in; it's very similar to the / position (although much more extreme than in a tennis stroke, remember this is just to illustrate an image!), non? but what's the difference between what you are doing normally and what you just did?

    what you normally do is set your feet at an angle / and then transfer energy from your left to your right leg. very good, better than what most people can do, but still not perfect. you can make this shot even better by instead of planting both your legs, only plant your outside (left) leg, and put all your weight on it. your inner (right) leg can be on the ground, however all the weight should be on your outer leg. when you're going to hit, make your weight go FORWARD (like when you were "falling forward") while hitting, and then catch yourself with the right leg. it may LOOK very similar, but it will FEEL very different. you'll know you're doing it right if you're maintaining everything else (keep your form the same, this is just a weight transfer issue, and it's a pretty minute change at that!), but your shots feel like they have more penetration/weight.

    the reason i point this out is because while your stroke is great, if I had to split up the "points" you have, a majority of them are in the pace/weight category (aka if you had 100 points, like 70 points are allocated there) which is fine, but I feel your game has much more to offer. By adding power/weight/pace with your weight transfer you can reallocate some of those points to things like spin, placement, and control. the whole point is to relieve your arm of the responsibility to produce pace, and get more of your body involved in that process. one of my mantra's is that the body should be the powerhouse, while the arm should be the control tower (and while i'm not saying you can hit 90 mph balls swinging like a snail, I am saying you can produce pace easier than you are at the moment). by having more power from your body, your arm can focus more on control. can you imagine how your game would change if you could hit the same pace, but hit wherever you wanted to, whenever you wanted to? you can do it!

    PLEASE note I am not saying you have no control, or have no pace, or anything negative! I am quite impressed with your stroke, and you are, again, better than the majority! I am only saying things i KNOW will help you be a bettER player! with that being said, i do hope you take the time to think about this and best of luck with your game!!

    -Zig
     
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  16. pyrokid

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    Wow zig, thanks.
    I'll try that out tomorrow.
     
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  17. theZig

    theZig Rookie

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    anything you'd like explained in more detail?

    I've added my AIM to my tw profile in case anyone needs immediate help.. I'll do what I can if I'm on
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
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  18. pyrokid

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    You're right, my running forehands aren't as good.

    But I think most of the stumbling was a footwork issue. My coach pointed out I only do it when I'm unbalanced.

    How could I make my forehand more efficient? Especially on the run.
     
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  19. coyfish

    coyfish Hall of Fame

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    I agree with zig. You torque yourself laterally so much. Your footwork wasn't bad but with you waiting for the ball so long and so much twist it isn't a good perspective.

    I think if you focus on moving into the ball instead of twisting laterally things will come together nicely for you. You will get more easy power. Your forehand looks like roddicks with the high takeback and closed face. He gets more behind the ball and moves forward though. But that is coming from the vid you posted. If I try and bomb forehands off the ball machine I will probably do some stuff I normally don't do.
     
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  20. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    Haha I wasn't bombing them, just trying to get another 5-10 MPH out of rallying strokes. Unless that's what bombing means. (deep, placeable.) I do need more fluidity though. It looks really forced. It's weird because usually in matches my strokes feel effortless. Maybe they're different, or maybe I go zen in matches?
    So just work on 'falling forward' more like zig said?

    how do I do that? any tips?
    Wouldn't it be hard on the run?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
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  21. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    how would you do that?...with very good balance. hard on the run?...for sure. does it take a lot of energy and focus?...absolutely. :)
     
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  22. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    First off, I think it looks real good. The main issues have been stated..weight transfer and real rally situations over a ball machine.

    Also, try and hit relaxed...make it look easy..Usually this is done by hitting at about 80% of maximum power.
     
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  23. tennis_pr0

    tennis_pr0 Semi-Pro

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    Looks good to me. I wouldn't change a thing. If I had to nit pick, and this would really be nit picking, I would say maybe be a little more relaxed on the take back, let the wrist lay back a little more. This is really nit picking, like I said, looks great to me, I wouldn't change a thing.
     
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  24. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    I feel like I get much more pace on the ball when I'm relaxed.

    But I can't set up with my feet to hit like that for as long as I was hitting.
    So it got easier to muscle it.
    Guess I need more footwork drills, rats.
     
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  25. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I don't like the way you point the hitting face of the racquet toward the back fence/wall on the backswing. I know a lot of players do it, but, it doesn't make sense to me. It adds an unecessary variable to your swing and makes it more difficult to time the face angle at contact, and therefore, to control the height and depth of your shot.
     
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  26. darthpwner

    darthpwner Banned

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    OP who is that MadBanana guy on Youtube. He is a total D1ck m0ther***er. He left reetarded comments on my Youtube channel also.
     
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  27. darthpwner

    darthpwner Banned

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    BTW nice forehands. Strange you would use a western grip though since indoor courts are really fast.
     
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  28. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    It's actually SW, I just have big hands.
     
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  29. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    jeeze dude, you smack the living day lights out of the ball!!!!
    i dont have much to say, well i dont have anything to say except i wish i played at your courts. that is causes a wicked sweet sound at impact!!
    keep it up man
     
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  30. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    I dunno.
    I just treated him the way I do most trolls, because they get bored if I don't care.

    I bet it's someone on here though, just because he got both my videos but not my old one, which wasn't linked in this thread.

    EDIT:
    Haha, they got the old one now. He's clearly on here.
    This guy makes me chuckle.
    Someone should teach him to make his trolling less obvious so people might actually pay attention to it.
    Jeez, I don't think I've actually ever seen an unsuccessfull troll before. Even 10 year olds can do it well on accident.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
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  31. Outlined

    Outlined Rookie

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    looks very good, what is your NTRP rating ?
     
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  32. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    No idea.
    I usually bagel 3.5s, and I usually beat known 4.0s fairly soundly.
    Every now and then a crafty 4.0 will give me a run for my money.

    I start losing when I play 4.5s. I only know like 3, and I'm pretty even with one, slightly better than one, and a LOT worse than another. Which makes me think the other two are lower 4.5, or else the other one is a sandbagger but I doubt it.

    I actually play fairly smart now compared to 6 or so months ago, and that helps a ton. I mostly learned the stuff from here. I started doing some S&V this week, and it worked really well even off of my less than excellent serve.
    I also slice a lot more, maybe 20% of shots. Really throws off most juniors I play, but the older guys just shrug it off.
    So I play a little better than my strokes and serve might make me look. I'd imagine I'm still far from an on court genius, but compared to most juniors I'm a tactical whiz. Or at the very least annoying to play.

    Also, I'm in the MIDway northWEST, because I know all that NTRP stuff is regional.
    (I bolded it because it's blocked because of the competitor rule.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
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  33. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    Haha I know the sound is great!

    I love it when tournies are hosted there because you get the indoor courts for like $1.50, the outdoor price.
     
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  34. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    how's the bh?
     
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  35. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    Oh, and also I went out for a few practice sets today. I worked on S&V and my forehand. I'm trying to get the racquet face perpendicular to the ground. It feels pretty weird now, but when I got it the shots were more consistent. Less variable racquet-face on impact maybe?
    And when I set up and did the whole 'falling into it' thing, I could just crush those things with like a 50% effort stroke! I've never hit so many approach FH winners! (or missed shots that spectacularly. Dang, I hit some fast misses. =P. I'm still learning though.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
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  36. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    Not quite as good, it's much better looking than a few months ago but still not up to my forehand level.
    I'm working on getting more body into it and getting the 'falling into it' thing going. But it's flatter than my FH. The nice thing is that I can get sharper angles, and those do well when flat.
    It is pretty consistent though.

    I'll try to get a vid up soon, but that won't happen for at least a month. My video camera privileges could use a lot more work than most people's tennis games.
     
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  37. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    1hbh or 2hbh?
     
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  38. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

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    2 hander.




    .
     
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  39. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    the 1hbh works nice with the "falling" thing...not sure about the 2hbh.
     
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  40. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    That's good. I would suggest taking practice swings in a mirror to see if you are doing what you think you're doing. Then, practice without looking in the mirror and try to memorize/internalize the feel of it. I think you'll be more consistent that way. Great forehands like Federer, Nadal, Soderling, close the racquet face a little bit, toward the ground, on the backswing, but not nearly as much as guys like Djokovic, Gonzalez and Roddick who have power, bu, lack consistency and depth control by comparison.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVZVQMsb1AY&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JivAVMB37c0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soADAL_uGs8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8AJYfkJ4hc&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-D32RwsD_w&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFibX-inICg&feature=related
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
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  41. theZig

    theZig Rookie

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    i'm glad to hear you're improving! keep up the good work and give me a message or something if you ever want me to look at more of your stuff, i'd be glad to help
     
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  42. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah I am right there with you. It is so much easier to muscle it. But I have been making myself chill out and just play more relaxed. The surprising part is that I still can crush the ball, but it is just more consistent. I also have more energy and can move my feet throughout a long point. I think having consistently great footwork is harder then hitting a heavy ball. It is a real challenge.

    Try hitting at 80% and really thinking about your next shot..where you need to be and then getting there. It is tough to do on a ball machine. It makes you comfy with staying in the same spot sometimes. You want to play more attacking tennis, especially if you can hit those nice corner shots consistently.
     
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  43. darthpwner

    darthpwner Banned

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    Yeah he's probably on here. What a dumbass.
     
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