My Hitting Video-Advice Welcome Pt.2

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Ballinbob, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    I disagree. Hitting videos are very good at showing how the player approaches his rally ball and showing his technical fundamentals. Match videos show how the player constructs points and how his technique holds up in live situations. Both have a purpose.
     
  2. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Both have a purpose.
    But point play also shows rallyball ability and technical skills.
    We all know plenty of 4.5 hitting players, who fall apart and play at low 4.0 levels once score is kept.
     
  3. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    This this this this this. Finally someone that says exactly what I am thinking.

    The forehand is simple if you really want it to be.
    Nearly every pro does the same thing so copy them or pay a coach to tell you to copy them.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    How many more Bob? How many?
    Prepare, then legs, hips, core, chest, shoulder, elbow, arm, hand, wrist, hit ball, congrats you have achieved a distinction in the ATP forehand.
     
  4. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, US born and raised, so maybe we are on different kinds of English...that is fine. These are posts and often from phones, so don't confuse them with fine literature. Where are you from?

    Your translation is close and maybe useful to him, but "through the ball" has a connotation from traditional instruction meaning thru the ball down the target line, so I don't use that phrase for a reason. You can get "strongly into the ball" while hitting up and across the contact.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  5. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Possibly, using "45 degree" is an exageration.
    More like 20.
    Now, you will show a vid of Nadal using the 45 degree swingpath. Not applicable here, because Nadal is a pro, he swings much harder, and he only does it occasionally.
     
  6. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Well, not exactly.....IF you worked more open, or with the neutral stance compensations of the pros, and got more comfy with the "up and Across"

    If you look in that hard hitting vid, you should see that most of the better shots you made were from at least semi open based on the target line. Most where you stepped to full neutral and beyond to closed did not go well.
     
  7. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    Open is best for Bob, but he should be able to use all if need be. He needs to fix his preparation first before he worries about balance or stances or anything else.
     
  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    "BEST" ????????????
    Every good player uses a different stance in different situations.
     
  9. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    Yes but certain technical styles cater more to different stances.

    Murray or Ferrer or Hewitt or Granollers are players who have technique which lend to them hitting mostly open stances. Open is best for them.

    Cilic, Federer, Berdych, Pospisil have forehand technique which lend them to hitting mostly neutral or closed stances. That is best for them.

    It depends on some minor technical aspects of your swing style which dictate this.
     
  10. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Ok I hit on the ball machine for an hour today.

    When I extended my elbow away from my body (ie. fully extended) like in post 103 by MMI I hit some awesome shots. I knew I was doing something right because I was getting really easy power. I just focused on keeping the elbow away from the body during the takeback and going to the outside when starting my swing versus back behind me

    I saw some great results. I hope soon I can use this in matchplay. Hopefully a new vid Saturday btw
     
  11. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Longer lever creates more RHS.
    But remember, don't lock the elbow straight. You need margin for error, and a slightly bent elbow is best for minute changes in incoming ball location.
     
  12. shindemac

    shindemac Hall of Fame

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    Yes, we speak the same English.

    I'm not blaming you. Coaching is a difficult job. Sometimes a coach has to explain the same thing multiple times before a student gets it. If he still doesn't get it, maybe the coach has to explain it a different way or use a different analogy. It may take a few different explanations before one sinks in. Or maybe the coach has to demonstrate it himself and hope the student is a visual learner.

    A good coach should be able to pick the right teaching style, pick up on if his student is getting it or not (even if he says he is but isn't), and make adjustments.
     
  13. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, especially on here with post knocked out in 1-2 mins:)
     
  14. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    Just a note of praise for folks who are gracefully receiving some criticism that is maybe a tad harsh, and perhaps debatable.
     
  15. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Anyone know how many repetitions it takes to commit something to muscle memory?

    I've been doing a lot of shadow swings and practicing but in match play I revert back to old habits for the most part. Guess there is no quick fix, im in this for the long run
     
  16. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Here are some pics of my contact point from yesterday:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm flying in some of these lol...
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Good things are worth waiting for.
    Nothing worth gaining is gained instantly.
    Who knows? For now, start your change, keep your old forehand for rallyballs when you NEED safety and margin for error, but hit the new forehand mostly.
    If it's meant to be to change to a more aggressive style, it will come.
     
  18. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    I agree. I've said before that I can hit with 5.0s and keep up with them just fine. If you record me, someone might say "gosh, those two look like really good 5.0s." But, the 5.0 is hitting right at me, with significantly reduced pace. The minute he starts to play a match, he's going to increase pace and rarely hit right at me. That makes it extremely difficult to keep up with.

    The most telling vids are when people are playing real matches. That's when we see "the real you.".
     
  19. dknotty

    dknotty Semi-Pro

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    I don't know if anyone else noticed, but in that video, you're hitting with your back foot slightly off the ground Bob. It seems that you have a habit of hitting with one foot off the ground. Easier to get away with in a neutral stance but harder with an open stance!
     
  20. dknotty

    dknotty Semi-Pro

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    A lot! I think forming new habits that last in stressful situations (such as matches) can take several weeks.
     
  21. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    3000-5000 swings
     
  22. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    I did indeed notice that. I think it's because of my loading phase and bad unit turn. That's currently what I'm working on along with extending the elbow more, so it will be interesting to see my balance after those are fixed. BoramiNYC made a good point, I shouldn't stress too much about balance- it will come on it's own eventually after I learn the proper technique I think


    Thank you
     
  23. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    If I extend my elbow and my left arm more during the backswing am I good in terms of the unit turn? Djokovic has this down perfectly

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  24. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    Bob this position you are in now is pretty much textbook.

    Sure, straighten left arm more if you like and right arm a little more but it is not essential, it will vary a little depending.

    If you want to really hit hard you will usually straighten it a bit more.

    You have some problems with timing the release of the kinetic chain.

    You tend to sometmes push the racquet through the hitting zone like Topspin Shot instead of having the racquet always lagging behind. After the leg drive I like to pull my left arm down and tuck it into my body to start the release of my chest and right shoulder, then arm and wrist. Try it.

    It takes time to learn how to time the kinetic chain well but when you do you will have a flowing forehand and can generate easy power like Fognini.
     
  25. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Easy power is what I am after. You are right that I force things too much, I dont feel natural hitting my fh. I push through the contact zone

    I'll try your tip and report back tomorrow with a video (and maybe a set, too)
     
  26. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    I said it but every good player in the globe does it. Pulling left arm in to body opens up chest to initiate the swing.
     
  27. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not sure which vid you are working off of now, but the contact point was all over the place in all that I watched. Just getting the contact point correct will put so many things to rest. Much of what you do that is inefficient if forced because of a constantly changing depth on your CP. This is the first step towards easy power Imo. You can't even find your balance till you get the CP more consistent.
     
  28. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Yeah when I watched my most recent video in slow mo I noticed my contact was indeed all over the place. It's so hard to defend the contact point against better players though...I have no idea how to do it. They hit too fast and too heavy. Against a 3.5 pusher I can have the contact point near perfect. Every shot seems to have a different contact point, it's tough to keep them all in check IMO

    I noticed when I do a proper unit turn and stretch the left arm it helps me with the spacing required for a good contact point though

    I think I am working on too many things at once:-? My pro told me to work on the contact point for a reason probably...should really ditch the elbow stuff till that gets worked out I think. Idk
     
  29. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    Double bend forehand contact should be to the side and a little bit in front. Moreso for cc and less so for dtl.

    Contact point is different for Nadal, Simon, Ferrer, Del potro.

    I dont think its a worthwhile teaching point in this case. The key is to hit the ball out in front and to the side with elbow away from body so you are not cramped.

    Let him get the correct prep and swing through the ball, the contact point is just a case of swinging earlier, let him change his swing first and then we can worry about him timing it correctly to hit the ball out in front.
     
  30. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    We will just have to disagree on that. I believe it all starts with the contact point and builds from there. Without it, prep has little function purpose and there can be no timing. I guess BB can decide for himself, but I think his coach is on target here.
     
  31. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    His contact point is not perfect. He needs to make sure to hit out in front of him a little more.

    But that is a minor thing, no point having a perfect contact point if he has issues with his swing, which he does.

    Preparation is the most important thing in a stroke.
     
  32. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Well, maybe that would make another good thread like your tactics overrated thread? Maybe ask for comments on which is more critical...excellent contact or excellent takeback prep?
     
  33. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Why is your contact point so high all the time? Is that where you want to make contact?
     
  34. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    Always contact point first then prep depending on the swing shape and speed. For shadow swinging it's a good practice to start from the racquet at the contact point then prep for the hit. You can do this for real hitting as well for practice. Like golfers addressing before a swing. This really stretches muscles when you prep. Without this it's easy to just bring the racquet to the prep position without stretching the necessary muscles, which is critical for ATP style fh.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  35. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    If you have a funky swing, you lose out on rhs, which means even if you hit the contact point perfectly you wont hit a good ball.

    Perfect prep wont give you a great contact point, a great contact point doesnt mean you hit a good ball either.

    Take walking, I am saying lifting your leg is the most important part to walking, you are saying placing your heel to the ground is the most important part, they are both important!

    If he gets a perfect contact point now, with his funky swing then good for him but if he ever changes his swing he will need to find a new contact point, so the work finding a good contact point now will be futile. That is why I believe he should work on the fluency of his swing and technique and when it is down, then he can work on contact point.

    He may develop a swing style that fits with a contact point far in front of him, or he may develop a swing style that fits with a very late contact point.

    Lets see how how his stroke (stance, prep and mechanics of his forward swing) develop and then assess his contact point.
     
  36. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    I'm glad you asked. Everyone I hit with hits a pretty heavy topspin ball. I CAN lower my contact point if I take these balls early but that's hard for me to do. I prefer to take the ball higher since the ball has lost some of it's hop and is moving slower.

    In short, I don't know how to take heavy topspin balls early so I opt for a higher contact point when the ball is moving slower. I hope this makes sense.. This is hurting me and causing me to jump upwards sometimes
     
  37. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Not true! Your flaw was here in your first comment. You can have a funky as heck swing with a great contact point....and actually EVEN GAIN rhs! What you risk losing is control, not rhs.
    Good technique/prep offers control and will even sacrifice some rhs to do it.

    The idea is to maximize rhs with control via technique. You can have perfect prep and still whif, but with great contact you will have at least a ok shot. Imo the whole purpose of Prep is to get to the contact point in good shape.
     
  38. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    Why don't you just let the ball drop some? You don't need to take a heavy topspin ball early all the time. Stand back a little, give the ball some room, and let it drop into a more optimum hitting zone.
     
  39. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Especially for balls where you want to add major top spin. Do you agree it is easier to add TS on a dropping ball?
     
  40. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Because I like to come in when I can and moving back doesn't allow me to do this. Also if I move back that will make me an even more defensive player than I am already

    I'm stuck with learning to take it early... Lol
     
  41. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    Ok, when I think about it it makes sense, I could swing like a caveman and still get insane rhs.

    My point is just that I think Bob needs to get his swing down first, I truly believe if he can just prepare like his earlier shot and swing with whole kinetic chain firing each part after another from legs to wrist like a rocket, then he can work on the other things after.

    Is my take similar to that guy Heath Waters with the millenium forehand??, wasnt he trying to get all the juniors to look like a pros and making them all utilise a takeback similar to Federer.
     
  42. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    Dont need to take it early. You can be aggressive like Fed (hit early) or aggressive like Nadal (hit harder)!
     
  43. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal runs around 8' behind the BL much of the time and still is one of the best at stepping up to attack. You should be able to give some room and still get there and mostly forward then, with less concens of backing up for deep corner shots (which got you at times in the vid)

    On the other hand, crowding the BL is a tactic many like and works fine with the right type of strokes. That is maybe the best part of the help you are getting towards hitting with a flatter trajectory. That is generally what you should do from in there & taking things on the rise and stealing time from the opponent. Makes little since to step up there, then give the time back by looping it up.
     
  44. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks, takes a fair guy to say that.

    Heath does push the pro swing, but he is going to build that with the good contact point, much like what we said about tactics. They really go hand in hand much from the start.

    In BBs case, I'd just like to see what his swing is without all the compensations for the various poor contact points. He is all over the board from late, to reaching way out there at times. I'm pretty sure it will smooth out lots of the concerns. Then at that point, you can do the finishing touches on his true foundation or rebuild if you don't like what you see by correcting the contact point. I'm convinced that currently he is in compensation mode on virtually every Fh.

    I'm not saying you are wrong or that it won't work. It's just my opinion that the CP approach is more appropriate in most cases like this one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  45. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    How does one defend the contact point out front against heavy topspin balls? Any tricks besides using the non-dominant hand for spacing purposes? I really struggle against these shots and every shot I hit will have a different contact point. I have no idea how i even manage like this

    And I really want to stay close-ish to the baseline, I feel comfortable there even though my contact point doesnt suggest it
     
  46. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    you mean when they kick up or kick out.?...2 different ways a heavy TS ball can perform.
     
  47. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    No problem with that choice and it matches well with what you are working here to learn....hitting a flatter trajectory shot.
     
  48. MeMyselfandI

    MeMyselfandI Guest

    Bob, you can dictate and defend the contact point and stay on top of the bseline against 3.5s maybe even 4.0s, against 4.5s you get pushed back and occasionally hit late, 5.0s bully you and rush you and you hit late a lot even if you stand behind the baseline.

    You ask for improvement for a lot of things you shouldnt be worried about. As you get better and adjust to the speed if better players you will improve your ability to stand on baseline defend contact point and dictate.

    I have played guys previously around 400 ATP and the make me look like a rec hack that hits late on loads of groundies.

    Guys I had good games with a year ago I can know just step up on the baseline take the ball early and hit loads of winners. Try to always hit the ball out in front of you and practice with players who hit harder than you.
     
  49. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    The kick up is what I'm concerned with.... They are very awkward for me to handle, especially if they are deep
     
  50. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    THey are the tougher of the 2 and especially if you play in tight as you prefer.
     

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