My new additions: Head PT280s

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by anubis, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    I don't often lurk in the classic racquets section, but I've had a hankerin' for the "real deal" for a loooong time. I wanted the original Prestige! I've had many IG MP's and Pros through the years, but nothing beats the original.

    I picked these up from a friend. Probably paid too much, but at least I can trust the source. They are both in good condition, one better than the other. I have Liquidmetal MP CAP grommets and new replacement grips on the way, since they need some attention.

    They both came with the original non-CAP grommets, which were eaten up pretty bad. I had a spare TGK238 CAP grommet lying around, so I stuck that on one of them so I can take this out for a spin on Friday night. But it doesn't *quite* fit properly, so as soon as the LM MP CAPs come in, I'll be replacing it on both.

    I strung it up with a full bed of Prince Premier Control 16 @ 58/56, eager to hit with it. I hit briefly with them a couple of days ago, but they didn't have a CAP grommet, so the swing weight was low.

    Took a pic of the weight too, 360 grams. It's extra high because i have the CAP and two overgrips on it. There's no lead anywhere lurking.

    The balance is between 6 and 7 points HL.

    http://imgur.com/a/jtFzv

    Sorry for the crappy image link. I manage over 200 servers in multiple tier 3 datacenters and I can't even figure out the internets.
     
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  2. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yup, best flat serving racket I've ever used. Never could figure out how it can serve so fast, yet be comfortable and somewhat flexible.
     
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  3. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Why did you throw an iPhone cover on it? :(
     
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  4. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    what do you mean by an iphone cover?
     
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  5. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Nice, however, they are Made in China. Sorry to say, but you will not experience the real feel of the 630/280 that made them desirable...
     
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  6. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    So are all of the pro stock TGK frames that pros like Berdych uses.

    Oh, and I also found an older thread where vsbabolat claimed that the 280 and 630 are the exact same racquet, regardless of the place of manufacture. After 2005, he said, Head moved all production to China, so all sticks from the 280/630 mold (which they are still making for the pro stock sticks) are still made in China.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
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  7. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    The 280 and the 630 are the same racket. 630 was the european version, the 280 the US version (because of the Trisys marketing scheme.) Same racket, different decal. Same is true of the Pyramid Tour 630 and the Pyramid Tour from the same time period as the Pro Tour. I guess Head figures Americans can't handle metric-based names.

    Like any racket made over a number of years, the differing vintages have subtle differences. I have all the versions (even Designed in Austria 630's) like them all and use them interchangeably without problems. The ones you bought are great rackets but might be a point or two stiffer (which some people prefer) than some of the earlier versions. Still great rackets, regardless. There are no bad Pro Tours IMHO.

    The pro rackets may still be made in Austria because of the custom aspect. More of a boutique than a factory. Low volume/custom versus mass production; two different things. Some 280/630 were made (or finished) in the Czech Republic. Head moved production around to take advantage of exchange rates and lower labor/production costs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
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  8. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Thanks FF. Will be taking one out today for a hit with a friend, will report back my findings. All of my previous retail Prestiges were considerably stiffer than this one, and I've actually never in my life used a stick with a flex of less than 62, so I'm very curious how that feels.
     
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  9. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    I think you will like it. You will be able to take a full cut (assuming some top spin) and still keep the ball in. With stiffer rackets, I have to spin it like Nadal to keep the ball in play.

    You might notice the flex but compared to some rackets, it is not that noticeable. Go hit with an old wood racket, or a Head Vilas or a Rossi F200 Carbon and you will really notice the flex.

    I like flex for the feel, the touch, and I feel like I get more spin on the ball. I hate stiff rackets, the ball just seems to bounce off them.
     
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  10. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Actually, there is a considerable difference in how they feel. I don't think the Chinese version has any twaron in it, however, I am not a 100% sure.

    To FF, te 630 and 280 are the same mold (PT57A) and same composition but they have their differences BEYOND the decals. THe 280's do come with the IDS, which are thin rubber things under the pallets that change the feel of the racket. The 630 does not come with that.
     
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  11. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    BTW, the TGK/TGT rackets are the Pro stock versions of the Retail sticks and they are also made in China, same composition. I am not saying either is better/worse, it is just different.
     
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  12. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    They were still manufacturing racquets for the Pro's after 2005 in Kennelbach. It was retail production that was shutdown in 2005.
     
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  13. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Twaron, Swaron, marketing IMHO. Head never stated that they put x percent of twaron (aramid fiber like Kevlar) in the mix. The Chinese versions still feel muted/comfortable to me, regardless. Any differences are fairly minimal IMHO.

    I have re-palleted far too many Pro Tours over the years. Went from IDS to no IDS and never noticed any difference at all. I notice strings, overgrips, grips, balance and weighting a lot more than any subtle differences between any of the Pro Tour vintages. But, to each his own.

    I traded a 280 straight up for a 630 once with a guy who felt the 630 was way too flexy for his game. I received the 630 expecting it to feel noticeably different somehow, it didn't, at least not to me. I concluded he had himself convinced of something based on a decal (and what he read on this board.) He loved the supposedly much less flexy 280 that I sent him and I sort of laughed to myself but was glad he was so happy with the trade. To some extent, one's expectation becomes one's reality, I suppose.

    We probably aren't going to agree about this and that is okay. It is a horse beaten to death long ago. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
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  14. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    HEAD Claimed back in 1993/94 it was 80% graphite and 20% Twaron for the Prestige Classic and Pro Tour 280/630
     
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  15. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Whatever they are made of, I like them. One of my favorite rackets.
    The head size, the weight, the balance, the flex, the 18x20 pattern, all good. :)

    Same goes for the Prestige (and Prestige Tour) Mids. (The red ones.)

    Wilson 6.0's, I think said right on the frame that they were 20%(?) Kevlar.
    Head never did that though, did they?

    I remember the Electra (late 1980's?) had a little marketing graphic inside the throat that trumpeted the damping benefits of Twaron. 50% less vibration than camel dung or some such thing. Admittedly, I am pretty immune to marketing drivel having worked in sales and marketing for years. I know the game all too well, I guess. New and improved, blah, blah, blah. Next year, the rackets will have Unobtainium in them. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
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  16. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Those clear CAPS look like a phone case.
     
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  17. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Ah. it's a Youtek Prestige MP cap. Doesn't quite fit right, but it was all I had lying around at the time. I had to replace it, I couldn't string the frame with the stock grommets: they were 20 years old and falling apart.

    I have two Liquidmedal Prestige MP caps on the way, I'll use them as soon as they come in. I think they'll fit better, and look better. I just hope it doesn't mess with the weight and balance too much.
     
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  18. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Again, twaron or not, I did not say one is better than the other. The feel difference is there, like it or no.
    And yes, same goes for PC600 and PT600. The Prestige Tour 600 comes with the suspension grip which in fact alters the feel (vibrations) and the weight of the racket...
     
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  19. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Preliminary review time!

    OK, keep in mind this is coming from someone who is barely a 3.5, so take it with a grain of salt.

    I went out and hit for two hours with a friend (another 3.5). He was testing racquets too (has some demos from TW). The first 30 minutes was just straight back and forth hitting, but after that we were practicing ending points and hitting winners, really trying to move each other around the court.

    Wow, what can I say? It's an amazing stick. It's light years beyond anything I've ever used before.

    The first thing I noticed was the flex. Never felt anything like that before. I used to use IG Radicals, and I though they were flexy -- boy I was wrong. If you can time that "bend" correctly, you can not only use the racquets momentum, but you can also use the flexibility of the racquet to sort of slingshot the ball.

    Second thing I noticed was the feel. I thought I knew what feel was, but I guess I didn't. I knew the moment the ball touched the strings, and the moment the ball left the strings. Sometimes with my Extreme Pro or Pure Drive, I don't even know the ball is on the strings. However, I'm not yet advanced enough to understand how that can help or hurt my game, so I'll just leave it at that.

    Third thing is directional control: I never had it with any other frame. With my Extreme Pro, I have a +/- 5 foot area of where I'd like the ball to go. So basically, every shot is within 10 feet of where I want it to go. But with the 280, it felt like every shot was within 2 feet of where I wanted it to go.

    Every time I went to hit either corner, I was able to do it -- during the whole hitting session. I hit so many hard, flat shots to either corner that my hitting partner eventually gave up and said he couldn't do anything with those shots. That's something he's never said to me in the two years we've been hitting partners. I've never been able to take control of the rally and move him wherever I wanted. It felt really good.

    Another nice thing about it was hitting flat shots. So, you take really good directional control and add very little top spin, and you get shots that bounce low and slide over the court. I feel like I was hitting with more pace than before, but even more than that was that sliding aspect of the ball: the ball doesn't slow down after it hits the ground, so it makes it harder to hit back.

    He told me that when I was using my high powered frames, i'd hit with a lot of topspin which would slow the ball down every time it hit the ground. that gave him extra time to get to the ball and return it. but hitting flatter sort of "stole" time from him, in a way?

    Last thing is injecting pace: I've never been able to generate my own pace before. I'd feed off of it if it was given to me, but if you gave me a slow sitter, then I wasn't able to create my own pace. But with this stick, for the first time in my tennis playing career I am able to increase the pace.


    Now, to the negatives:

    The racquet does nothing for you -- you have to do everything yourself. I found that as I got tired, my footwork suffered. then I started hitting easy shots for him to kill. So, footwork is key: you have to be properly positioned to hit every single shot. as long as you are, and as long as I properly transferred my weight from back to front, then i was able to hit with enough pace.

    Also, like I said, it produces very flat shots. I found that if I'm behind the baseline, then I can take a full, flat swing and it almost always went in. But if I was in NML or approaching the net, my normal stroke always sent the ball long. I had to modify my swing and use an extreme windshield wiper finish, which produced more spin and kept the ball in just fine.

    So, I just need to consciously keep in mind that as I transition in front of the baseline, I have to hit with a windshield wiper finish in order to keep the ball in. I've never had to do that before, my normal stroke always had enough topspin to keep it in play. but i'm fine with that, no bid deal.


    I've got a doubles match tonight, and a 4.0 singles match tomorrow morning. I'll report back my findings :)
     
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  20. TheRed

    TheRed Professional

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    Yes, I have the same experience too and can't figure out why. I regularly get 10-15 mph more out of this racquet. It was never known as a big serving racquet. In my early 20's, I used the Austrian ones and regularly hit 110-120mph and I'm only 5'8". There's just something about the balance and flex of the racquets I suppose. I barely break 100 with other racquets.

    I used to think I served big only because I was younger and played more. I barely break 90 these days. I acquired some Austrian ones a few months ago and guess what, when I served, I was bombing them again. I have no idea why.
     
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  21. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    The WOW effect may be a part of the Honeymoon experience, so, I will not comment on that.

    However, you got it right -- it is a very demanding racket with "low" power and not a huge sweet spot. If you mistime it, it will look like crap. If you time it right and hit right at sweet spot you and your opponent will know it!

    I actually like the access to spin this racket allows. I found it a great spin 18x20 racket, much more than MG/YT/IG Prestiges. Where is shines is the control and ball pocketing. And of course, the feedback and the feel.

    It is simply a cure for me -- all of my (elbow and shoulder) pains are gone, now, I am only dealing with the hip issues :)
     
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  22. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    You know, I test so many racquets that I sort of miss the "honeymoon" period. I've play tested probably close to 15 in the past year, and have only been completely blown away during the first hitting session with three of them:

    Babolat APD
    Technifibre T-Fight 315 Ltd
    Babolat Pure Drive

    All the rest were "meh". I stopped using the Babolat sticks because I have wrist pain when I play. I stopped using the F-Fight because I'm dumb and I want to lose (it was a great stick, I regret selling them).

    But the 280 absolutely slays the 315 Ltd.
     
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  23. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I've hit with the 280 and it didn't slay the 315 to me. In fact, I prefer the 315 because it's lighter and has more power.
     
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  24. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    I'd like to try the 18 mains someday. Have you played with that one? I only used the 16 mains.
     
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  25. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I played with both. The 18 is close enough to the 280 that unless you grew up hitting with it and are really anal, it would be fine.

    I prefer the 16 personally. I love a stick with great feel but my days with a 12.5 plus racquet ended in the 90s.
     
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  26. retrowagen

    retrowagen Hall of Fame

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    The PT630 / 280 is an iconic frame. Really spans the classic graphite era with the modern; such a versatile tool.

    The impression of the player having to do all the work is accurate of many of the older frames. The payoff is that the racquet is indeed a tool which is far more versatile - hit topspin, no problem. Hit flat? again, no problem. And it, in stock form, has sufficient weight and is a nice, friendly flex, so as not to start joint or muscle problems.

    No wonder so many people who hit tennis balls to earn their living have used this racquet (often disguised as other models!)...

    I personally think the Chinese-made models have a more "tinny," less plush feel, and may have been minutely stiffer, but mostly felt as though they shed vibration differently.

    A related racquet which offers more power in an otherwise nearly identical mold is the green metallic Tour Xtralong, made in Austria. This is my favorite midplus Head frame.
     
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  27. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    What is your favorite racket is like what is your favorite color or favorite beer; a very subjective judgment.

    Glad you like the 280's, anubis, not surprised. Pro Tours are great sticks regardless of vintage. I have known guys who played on the satellite tour that played the Chinese versions and one who used Austrian and Chinese versions interchangeably. He agreed with me that the differences were slight especially after customization. All a matter of taste, I suppose.

    Bad hip, Dr325i.? Probably a result of an open stance forehand. Very common problem. That is what did Guga in. I've had a touch of that off and on. The only cure I know is to play less tennis. And yes, relatively flexible, relatively heavy, preferably head light frames will cure a lot of the arm/wrist/shoulder problems caused by using frames that are light, stiff and head heavy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
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  28. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    That may be it, although, I blame my age :) THough, people say 42 is still young to play 5x per week...
     
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  29. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I know what they were, and those clear CAPS were the 2nd biggest Head has made in recent memory. A distant 2nd behind the killing of the Prestige Mid.
     
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  30. souledge

    souledge Semi-Pro

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    Clear CAPS much?

    [​IMG]
     
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  31. Gellin

    Gellin Rookie

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    Not to hijack your thread but I just recently picked up some PT280s myself. (Austrian/Czech)

    Although they could be in better shape cosmetically, they still hit like a dream.:mrgreen:

    Does anyone know which non-CAP grommet set fits the PT280's the best?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  32. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    The i.Prestige MP XL is how Tennis-warehouse has it listed. You could also use Ti.Radical MP/ i.Radical MP grommets.
     
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  33. Gellin

    Gellin Rookie

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    Thanks vsbabolat.
    Would you be so kind to share your thoughts on CAP vs non-CAP for these racquets?

    Any big pros/cons that one should take into account?
     
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  34. TheRed

    TheRed Professional

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    Especially by today's standards, this racquet is heavy enough. CAP's add too much swingweight without creating a truly targeted customization. I prefer to add lead at only 3/9 for stability. The 280 wasn't made with CAPS in mind. I've tried it with CAP and didn't like it. I've yet to play with the 630 but my guess is that it's grommetless balance is different since it was designed to use the CAP grommets.
     
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  35. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    CAPs add about 10 grams versus regular grommets.

    I did not notice a difference. Hell, an overgrip adds 6 grams at least.

    Amazing how 3.5's can feel a spec of dust of their racket. (Not directed at anyone in this thread.)

    CAP's do a great job of protecting the frame. If you want to experiment, just add head tape all along the upper hoop; same effect.

    A bare 630 and a bare 280 of the same vintage will spec out the same. Unless a decal makes a difference. There were 630's that were made non-CAP. All 280's were made non-CAP. If your 280 grommets are shot, CAPing is a good idea IMHO. It saves the sides of the frames from getting trashed. (I like heavier frames though.)

    Tracy Austin probably used a 14 ounce wood frame when she was a 14 year old girl. Generation Woose complains about anything over 11 ounces. Eye roll.

    Hey ya go, Dr325i, Guga using a painted Pro Tour and aggravating his hip injury.

    http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/.../hip_injuries_openstance_forehand_public.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
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  36. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    But the 280 is the same as the pt630 which was sold in Europe, and it had CAP grommets.

    FWIW, 2nd and third outing, horrible results. Played a match with a 4.0 and lost 0-0. Made 40+ unforced errors, every shot sailed long, had no topspin whatsoever.

    Playing with this stick also threw out my timing for all my shots. Played another fun match with a friend and switched back to my Pure Drive. Couldn't maintain a rally longer than 2 shots: all hits went long.

    On the third day , stuck with my Extreme pro. Couldn't hit rallies longer than 1 shot, all hits went long or went into the net.

    have had the worst 3 or 4 days of tennis in my life, which is very unlike me... I'm known for being consistent. I may just hold onto these sticks as an investment and use something else. I've never not been able to maintain rallies of greater than 2 or 3 shots.
     
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  37. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    We call that a Honeymoon phase as I pointed out.
    Now, keeping them as investment will not pay for the kid's college, however, you may break even in 10 years :). They are sweet rackets to have as collectibles or to pull out sometimes and have a fun hit (if you don't use them regularly).
     
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  38. SOY78

    SOY78 Semi-Pro

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    I also just got a hold of a PT280 with original grommets and it felt heavier than my Volkl C10 Pro Tours which are close to 12.5oz/355 grams. The plowthru is amazing for this stick. For the people who grew up with wood racquets this is a great stick for flat hitting and some top spin shots mixed into the mix. Flat serves were great too I had many aces hitting flat then ever before. The thing is that this stick is a little on the heavy side and I couldn't play with it for the whole 2hrs of singles. I think it is for me time to hit the gym ;)
     
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  39. noro

    noro New User

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    i agree that, i play with a pt630 trekkie and a tour xtralong and to me is easier co place deeper shots(and specially returns) with the xtra. A beautiful and underrated racquet
     
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  40. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Hey FF, can you please contact me at
    Dradic011@ hotmail com

    Thanks!
     
    #40
  41. SOY78

    SOY78 Semi-Pro

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    Are PT280's with Designed in Austria and Head Barcode Label Inside from China or Czech? Also are the beams of the PT280's are the same as twin tube? Because I can pretty much see the seam on the beam/throat of the racquet.
     
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  42. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    based on what i've read, the Designed in Austria PT280s with the Head Barcode Label Inside on them were all made in Kennelbach, Austria and finished in Czech.

    i compared one of these to a Made in Austria PT280 and i couldn't tell any difference.

    the PT280 and TT Rad MP beams are both 20mm.
     
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  43. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    Yes, thats right. You got it!:)
     
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  44. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    thanks, vs! i am certainly no expert on the classic head racquets so i'm sure you can guess where i got this info, right? :lol:
     
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  45. SOY78

    SOY78 Semi-Pro

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    Yesterday I had a chance to hit with my PT280s one MIA with no CAPs strung with full 1.10mm poly at 35# and one DIA with CAPs
    with 18g s.gut mains and 1.10mm poly crosses at 35#. All I can say is wow. The power and spin coming of the strings were just
    insane. Also my elbow was not in pain afterwards at all. Those thin strings made the racquet just a little more head light so I was
    able to up the racquet head speed, resulting is wicked spin and power shots. Should be interesting to see how long this setup lasts
    until something breaks. :)
     
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