my new mile time.

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by babolatchaznike, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,110
    The reason I think that you are not 6.4% is just simply becasue that would give you a height adjusted LBM of about 7-8 more pounds than Ross (given your 205 - 209 weight).

    As I said, Ross was a maxed out natural. What does that mean? It means that he gained all of the muscle that is theoretically possible for someone of his size and bf%. You are basically his size, yet you are claiming significantly higher LBM numbers. It just simply isn't possible (without steroids).

    Let me simply ask you, do you look anything like the picture of Ross? You should look MUCH better than he does given that you're carrying significantly more muscle and less bodyfat. I have to say that for all of the people that make outragous claims (usually on bodybuilding sites), when they post pictures, for some reason they don't quite look like what they claim.

    Yes, I know that modern bodybuilders compete at much lower bodyfat. Ross competed in an age when 8% was pretty much the standard. I'm not just guessing at his bf%. I pulled it from the book I linked to. And looking at his picture you certainly wouldn't mistake him for someone with 2-4%. He looks nothing like those veiny creatures of modern bodybuilding.

    But as you say, it really doesn't matter. If you want to be 5' 10.75" and 209 with 6.4% bf I think that is just fine. It just simply means that you have somehow exceeded what any natural bodybuilder has achieved (and by a significant amount).
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
    #51
  2. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    755
    Juice

    To tell you the truth I cannot and never will compare my body to a bodybuilder pic. First the lighting and olied up and they do a wacky water and soduim loading thing before a show and take "diuretic" pills to rid their body of water. That does not seem healthy to me but you should have seen the results they look freaky ripped.

    Four trainers I use to watch them get ready for their "natural" show is a joke it was a poly or **** test anyone can beat I don't think any bodybuilders are not on the juice they just take less and get off early for the natural shows. Steroids have been out since the early 1930's so for me show me a pic before 1930 I would like to see the difference.
     
    #52
  3. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,110
    This is why I chose Ross as a comparison for you. He won his major titles in the late 40's. Most agree that it wasn't until 1935 that researchers even discovered the association between anabolics and muscle accumulation. Steroids in usable form didn't become part of the scene until the 1954 Olympics.

    You can argue that guys were using steroids in the 30's and 40's, but if true, they pretty much would have had to have been making it themselves in their basements or something. It just simply wasn't around yet from everything I have read.

    And yes I agree with you that there are very few (if any) 100% life long natural bodybuilders. "Natural" competitions are a joke.

    It is not hard to tell a natural from a steroid freak. When you look at stats it is even easier. Using a mature man as a base (by mature I mean a guy that has fully "filled out" as we say), men have the natural genetic potential to add in the range of 33-40 lbs. of additional muscle (when measured at a bf% of around 10%. You can gain more if you get fatter).

    Well, if the subject interests you, here is an interesting article.

    http://www.weightrainer.net/maximum_potential.html
     
    #53
  4. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,777
    Location:
    Mallorca.
    My best mile is 4:23.

    I ran a 1:57.7 today in an 800m, but I'm 37 with dodgy knees. My mile time is due a rewrite this season.
     
    #54
  5. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    I need to see how you're measuring your BF, because as someone who went from:

    [​IMG]

    to:

    [​IMG]

    with just diet and exercise and I am at 13% BF in that second pic at 165 from ~235-240, I know what it takes to cut fat properly and being 200lb at sub 6.5% is on the level of Frank Zane:

    [​IMG]

    or Frank McGrath

    [​IMG].

    What method are you using?
     
    #55
  6. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    755
    Juice up

    I was reading another thread you said you lost 45lbs over the winter, nice work were you out of shape? What is your current age weight ,height and bodyfat if you don't mind me asking? Testosterone was first invented in the 1930's but then I read testosterone was first discovered in a lab in the 1860's. So its possible to have juice heads have been around as since the late 1800's.
     
    #56
  7. tennis005

    tennis005 Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,293
    Location:
    Texas, USA
    I ran a mile in 6 minutes in 115 degree heat at 2 o'clock in the middle of the summer. :)
     
    #57
  8. ubermeyer

    ubermeyer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,176
    Location:
    Texas
    9.4? That's pretty high for a bodybuilder, I met a bodybuilder who claimed his bf% was 1...
    I myself am 1.9% and I eat lots of fatty foods.
     
    #58
  9. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    755
    Type

    I have the Skyndex calipers top of the line 469.00. I use the Jackson/ Polack which for men is pectoral, abdomen and thigh. I check the cal before I use them every time and as a Master level trainer for 20 years experience using them. Those two pics they both look juiced up to me. How did you measure your bodyfat? So you went from 240 to 165 nice job how long did it take you 37 weeks?
     
    #59
  10. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,929
    Location:
    Oakland
    No wonder you are quick. Take a look at Tyson, and how he preloads by jacking backwards first, and then forwards into the punch. Same tech. I use on my power volleys. Speed kills in tennis, and blubber kills. I see you took a great deal of blubber off. Same thing I need. Any advice for how I can lose 50 lbs, given my age? I'm not going to be dangerous again until I can do that.
     
    #60
  11. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,110
    I decided I wanted to add some muscle to my body, so I bulked for a year+ and just cut this winter. I'm down to a reasonable 15-16% bf. Looks like I'll end up with about 15-18 additional lbs. of muscle over my untrained self. Pretty much what I was aiming for.

    I'm about your age (37 years old). 6' 1" and about 210 - 215 lbs. I'm trying to get down to 195-200 lbs. That would put me in the 10-12% bf range. Fit and liveable. I'm in no real hurry to lose these last 10-15 pounds. I'm basically fine where I am.

    For the next year I am concentrating on getting my cardio back so I'll probably be logging some miles on the track / road. I also switched from weights to doing mostly bodyweight / gymnastics type exercises.
     
    #61
  12. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    755
    Sweet

    Sounds like you in pretty good shape what are your measuements just to compare? Your bodyfat is in the fit range anything under 10.8, when I was 9-10 perecent last year I thought I was pretty lean like you. Now that I cleaned up my eating and eating less plus no snacking and eating after 5pm I really leaned out never thought it was possible. It was hard at first not to eat after 5pm once I did it for a few weeks my body got use to not eating so late I feel lighter and sleep better. I did cheat two times eating after 5pm but guess what I did not enjoy the food so I guess I retrained my body for good. I look forward to getting up early and eating breakfast!!
     
    #62
  13. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,110
    Makes no sense to compare really because I am 15%-ish bf and you are 6.4%, so much of what I am measuring is fat, not muscle. I am also taller.

    That said, here you go. These are all "non-pumped" and non-exaggerated (and not impressive):

    Chest (relaxed): 44

    Waist (illiac): 35

    Waist (abdomen): 35.5

    Calf: 16

    Leg (measured about 2-3 inches below groin area): 24.75

    Forearm (arm straight; fist clenched): 12.5

    Upperarm (arm 90 degrees; fist clenched): 16.25

    Neck (just below adam's apple): 15.5

    Shoulder girth: 50.5

    I am a pretty small boned guy in the upper body. My wrist (measured to the hand side of the styloid) is only 7.25 which (compared to a sample of other 6' 1" guys) is really small.

    On the other hand, my ankle (measured at the smallest part, usually just above the ankle bone) measures 9.75 and is somewhat large compared to other 6' 1" guys.

    These measurements will all decrease (fairly significantly I think) if I manage to lose another 15 pounds.

    As I said above, I still find the combination of your weight / bodyfat / measurements hard to believe. As I demonstrated, that would put you above drug-free world champions from the 40's. But that is neither here nor there really.

    My goal was not and is not bodybuilding. I decided to bulk up a few years ago. I had found that my "natural" LBM is 160 lbs. I had cut down to 10%-ish bodyfat and about 178 lbs. Had I cut down to 175, that would have put me at 8.5% bf, the same as the picture of Ross I posted. He was 8.4%.

    Anyway, I simply thought I looked small and felt I needed to get stronger. I now have about 178 LBM, but I expect it will decrease slightly if I cut 15 pounds. Probably to around 175 LBM. That would give me a 195 lb. bodyweight and about 10% bf. At that point I can decide if I want to add anymore muscle. I doubt I will. I'll probably just continue with the bodyweight / gymnastics type training and running.

    I'm back to cranking out 7 min. miles and doing 45 min runs at that pace 4 or 5 days a week. I also managed to do a few sets of 5 handstand pushups last week and a few sets of full, standing ab-wheel rollouts (and other interesting bodyweight exercises). I can hold a frog-stand for a minute+ and am working on going from a frogstand and pressing into a handstand.

    By the end of summer / early fall, I hope I can add rings to my routine, but some of that **** is really hard.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2010
    #63
  14. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    755
    measure

    well I got you by 2 inches in the chest and one and half inch smaller waist but you got me almost an inch upper arm but I got you one inch forearm. Pretty small neck for your size but maybe you don't have a block head like me. Calf and leg are the same size. I would trade you an 18 inch neck for 16 1/4 inch arms always wanted 16 inch arms maybe next lifetime.
     
    #64
  15. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    Frank Zane isn't juiced up, I'm sure of that. McGrath I'm not too sure about. Zane was a 3x Mr. Olympia because of his perfect aesthetics, not sheer mass and vascularity as was popular and still is.

    It took me far too little time because I cut improperly the first time. I ended up bulking a bit on a 10 week cycle then cut again. The first time I went from 220-170 between May and August of '07. The next time I went from ~ 185-165 between December-April.
     
    #65
  16. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    The only thing preventing people from losing weight is desire. You have to want to become a healthier person, not become more attractive, or not get a beach body, or any other nonsense. That is why all diets and I mean ALL diets end up failing because people restrict their intake to get to a "goal", but once they're at the goal, they haven't the faintest idea as to how to keep it there. They still have the mindset of their heavier self.

    I told myself that I did not want to be overweight anymore, and just went and did whatever was necessary. The same goes for the workout program DVDs you see being advertised. You can't do that program for the rest of your life, so what happens after the 90 days are up? Will you still look like that 90 days later? What about a year later? It's all about changing the way you live, and if you want it, and I mean WANT it, then the weight flies off.

    If you just want to lose 10lbs or any other useless goal, then you really don't want it. That's the exact reason why people who go on diets end up a year later heavier than they were before starting the diet. I know; I've tried them all and they're all useless. Cardio, light weight lifting, high protein diet, cut out all unnecessary sugar and fats, and write down what you're eating each day. That way you know how much you've taken in and how much you need to cut back.
     
    #66
  17. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    755
    Drugs

    So are you a bodybuilder because you used the words bulking, cut and cycle.
    I know these words from trainers and friends who juiced up. So you went from 220 to 165 in about 9 months. Frank Zane and all other bodybuilder can say they are natural but I doubt it. Test, Hgh and roids have been around since the 1930's. Some say as early as early 1900's or late 1800's. For me natural and bodybuilding are two words that don't go together.
     
    #67
  18. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,110
    If I lose 15 lbs., I'll shrink. My measurements will drop by .25 to .5 or so.

    When I weighed 255 my arms were over 18, leg was just shy of 27, but my waist was 45.

    My goal was to try to hit the so-called "Greek ideal" measurements. This is (obviously) what the Greeks considered ideal measurements and proportions for males. It shows up in art (Michelangelo's "David" and da Vinci's "Vitruvian man" for example).

    [​IMG]

    Real life guys with these measurements and proportions are basically fitness models (perhaps slightly larger), looking something like this (probably most like 431 in the photo. He is 5' 11"; 185 lbs. Looks to be about 8% bf I would say):

    [​IMG]

    My "ideal" measurements for my height (6' 3/4") and bone structure @ 10% bf are as follows:

    LBM = 179.67

    Waist = 32.42

    Hips = 40.52

    Chest = 45.9

    Bicep = 16.52

    Neck = 16.52

    Forearm = 13.31

    Thigh = 24.32

    Calf = 16.51

    Shoulder girth = 52.45

    Shoulder width = 21.22

    I think if I could add 5-7 more pounds LBM, I could be at some of these measurements @ 10% bf . I might go for it over the winter. It will take me around 9-12 months I think to add the necessary muscle and cut the fat. I would be 200 or so lbs. @ 10% bf.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
    #68
  19. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    755
    Size

    Your calf, upperarm and neck should be the same size. Both legs should equal your chest and waist should be 12 inch less than chest. Don't remember when or where I heard this but it seems to make sense.

    #431 looks leaner than 8 percent his skin looks paper thin is that you? Is that a "natural" show? Wow 255 is huge and 18 inch arms but like you said 45 waist not good. The only difference for me going from 185 to 205 was I wore 32 waist jeans loose now 34 waist jeans. Chest went from 44 to 46. My arms have always been 15 1/4 to 15 1/2 So I did keep the 12 inch difference from my chest to waist. I once went up to 223 but my 34 jeans were to tight on the waist not good.

    I have a large frame so I need to weigh aleast 196 too much cardio and my weight drops to 192 I feel and look skinny. I can't image going back to 185lb in high school I was the same height at 138-158 I looked like Jolly. Good luck getting to your goal body measurments, weight and bodyfat.
     
    #69
  20. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,110
    For calf, upperarm, and neck, that is what I have heard too. They should be pretty much equal.

    Chest should be about 1.4 times your waist. Both legs = chest would put me at a 49 chest. Not even possible.

    Shoulders should be about 1.6 times your waist.

    #431 looks similar bodyfat to the pic of Clarence Ross I have on page 1. He is 8.4%. If you look at his legs, they aren't "ripped" and he is not "veiny". I would say 8-9% actually. Remember, he is "pumped" and oiled and under perfect lighting, so he looks better than he really is.

    These guys could easily be natural. They aren't that big. I think this is a fitness model competition, so in addition to being pretty well built, they were also blessed with great natural proportions (and probably work out so as to maintain / enhance that). People who are proportionate look much better than huge bodybuilders (to most people anyway).
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
    #70
  21. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    755
    size

    1.4 does not seem real to me. I would stick with 12 inches bigger then your waist. For me it's hard to tell bf until I measure them.
     
    #71

Share This Page