My quest to 5.0 - help me out

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Jakesteroni, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. Jakesteroni

    Jakesteroni Rookie

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    Critique it. All honesty is appreciated. My fitness is definitely not there as it is something I am working on this year. Lost all fitness and footwork when I stopped playing for 2 years.

    I laid off tennis for quite a while due to relocating and work and have been trying to get back to a 5.0 level. You could say this is the beginning of my journey to that point thanks for being apart of it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMs4-aPOXfw

    I should rename this thread to "looking for hitches"
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
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  2. peoplespeace

    peoplespeace Semi-Pro

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    Aussming ur the guy closest to the camera, things look nice, we rally at about the same level although i would say my 2hbh is a bit more penetrating. What is the purpose of the vid, looking for compliments? If u wanna improve ur fh try hitting more through the ball and get less spin on it, just for variation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
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  3. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    #3
  4. Jakesteroni

    Jakesteroni Rookie

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    Compliments no. Advice yes. I am the guy closest to the camera. I'll try your advice next time I'm out. Thanks for taking the time on helping out. Greatly apprecaite it.
     
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  5. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    The stokes and prep are 5.0 if your black shirt guy. Footwork will come back, it's the serve that usually takes work.
     
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  6. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    What is your tennis background like? Junior play?
     
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  7. Jakesteroni

    Jakesteroni Rookie

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    I started playing freshman year in high school. Went on to play 1 yr in Junior College. I had probably 5 lessons from actual coaches, but I was just joining my friends private lesson so I wouldn't say I really got coached. I am mostly self taught. I just invested a lot of time during my high school days, I would play anywhere from 4 to 6 hrs after school. Watched lots of tennis studying and mimic players that I idolized.

    After 1 yr of college moved up to Nor Cal and stopped playing for 2 years. Gained 25 lb and here I am now.
     
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  8. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    True, there is no coach will let you execute your forehand that way. The in and out of your forearm, the wristy movement of your hand will break down once in real match and high speed ball. I do not see any pro hit the way you hit.
    I'm sorry
    Your backhand look solid and very good.
     
    #8
  9. wings56

    wings56 Professional

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    things look good from the baseline. the balls out of the strike zone or on the move were a bit more shaky. backhand looks technically sound and forehand doesnt look bad, but it seems there is a lot of extra motion in the backswing that might be partially to blame due to the extreme grip. with that being said, the more you continue playing, im sure youll find a groove and be able to bring your game back to where it was in college.
     
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  10. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    Agree that his BH looks more solid and that in a match, especially if he wants to play at 5.0 , I could see that FH breaking down under duress. For just rallying, you start off hitting well but after the first minute or so you start to get a little wild so I'd like to see you work more on prep and consistency. The guy in the white seems much steadier and has nice clean strokes. Looks like he would be a good hitting partner to work with. I think you'll be alright once you get back into playing regularly. Hardest part of shaking off the rust is getting your legs back.
     
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  11. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Something weird going on with the so called "Lock and Load" postion in your forehand. It looks forced and unnatural.

    Maybe some posters can figure it out but I'd like to see a side view camera next time.
     
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  12. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    you don't belong here, OP, this forum does not need people who can actually play posting videos

    begone with you!
     
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  13. forthegame

    forthegame Hall of Fame

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    I'm in no way qualified to tell you how to hit but, your backhand looks as if it has a 'hitch' of some sort. I think your backhand is themore likely shot to break down. Of course, your real-life experience may be different.
     
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  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Your strokes are yours, and judging the way the ball goes, is good enough for your target level and more.
    Some say your forehand is wristy, but it's the way YOU hit it, and you hit it solidly and consistently.
    You can trounce any 4.0 with even an underhand serve, so you're 4.5 right now. 5.0. Just conditioning and some more wide backhand practice.
     
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  15. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    I would focus on getting a little more on the toes, more knee bend. Footwork/balance does look shaky of the backhand side (shots off balance/ a lot leaning back/bending down at the waist to get low balls instead of bending the knees/etc.).

    I think your backhand could be a lot better if you loosened up
    and got some more left-to-right weight shift. Right now, it looks like you are stiff and are using mostly your arms to force the ball back (not a lot of racquet head speed on that side). Being your toes more might help a lot.
     
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  16. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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  17. Jakesteroni

    Jakesteroni Rookie

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    Thanks a lot. I couldn't really see what the members were talking about until that breakdown. My backhand is actually my weaker side, but I think its because the technique is simple which may make it look more consistent.

    I'm going to get out to hit tonight and will focus on my elbow positioning. Would you mind taking a look at Andy Roddicks forehand, I would think my forehand is closest in comparison if to anybody pro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ17FZrzkEY&feature=fvst notice the elbow.

    I appreciate everyone taking the time for the feedback. No apologies needed as I take this as constructive opinions.
     
    #17
  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I'm at a much lower level than TBalla, but I think since your goal is 5.0, not 7.0, your high elbow forehand is just fine, IF you hit it hard, it goes in, and it stands up under pressure. Some top 10's have a forehand "hitch" like yours, Andy, DelPo, and some other guys just out of that level.
    Right now, you hit it hard, it goes in, it looks like it goes where you want, but we can't predict how it holds under "pressure".
    We all hit our individual style.
    If JimmyConnors would post his strokes here.....
    If JohnMcEnroe would post his strokes here....
    If ChrissieE would post her strokes here....
    We'd say...." you maxed out your stroke production, now change it so you can hit harder with more spin and hopefully get better".........:):):)
    A groundie forehand matters, but only a small part of the total equation.
     
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  19. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Your stroke production looks good. But, your footwork and shot preparation are a bit ponderous and inconsistent, although, it's a bit better on your backhand side. I didn't like your closed/neutral stance forehands. Hustle more and get set up with an open stance on the forehand. I also don't think I saw you hit a single cross court forehand and only a few crosscourt backhands. I agree with Balla that your forehand windup is too complicated. IMO, Roddick isn't the best model to emulate. I much prefer Nadal and Djokovic's FH's to emulate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
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  20. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Fh is his better side, but footwork is too slow, weight too high, not enough weight into the shots launching forward, not enough back wards coil. Where are you located? I'm in Oakland if you want to hit. You need better practice partners to reach 5.0.
     
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  21. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I agree with Lee here, your strokes are very good. I guess there is always something people can find that looks a little unusual. But like Lee points out these are your strokes and if you ask me you have very good ones.

    Like others have said get in better shape and start playing some matches.
     
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  22. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I think balla has some pretty good stuff on your Fh above, but would have to see how hard it is to disrupt your Fh to be sure. If that Fh does not break down on you and you have excellent confidence in it, I would be reluctant to change much.

    To your OP about getting to 5.0, It's going to be a lot about getting wins at this point. After you decide about that Fh, your basic rally looks pretty strong, so if you have similar with other strokes, it will be more about execution and strategy. Your strategy will dictate your tactics and your tactics will dictate your targets. When you work thru that process mentally, you can then choose targets for each of your strokes that fit with your tactics which are part of your overall strategy. I would suggest to set priorities on the tactics/targets you expect to employ most in building points and spend 60-80% of your time with them and the balance of your time on the lower priority items.

    For example for an all court player, he could spend 75% of his work on execution to strategic targets for Fh/Bh rally shots (including slices), strong second serve, serve rtns, and mid court attack shots(including slice and dropshot). He could use 20% of his work on 1st serve, volleys, overheads, and half volleys. The remaining 5% left could be allotted to phys training like CrossFit.
     
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  23. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Roddicks forehand has a couple things different, which make it smoother. His elbow is higher as well and his racket points forward. I have no problem with either, however in your case as I pointed out in the video your racket is completely parallel with the baseline with the buttcap pointing to the side fence. The difference with Andy is, his racket head is still more or less pointing up where as in your case your grip and your racket head are at the exact same level and and parallel to each other and thats where the problem lies in my opinion.
    When you watch Andy's backswing his racket head is always above his grip, and then he initiates his forward swing and has that semi C shape leading up to his contact point. Hope that made sense.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
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  24. kengan

    kengan New User

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    Your forehand looks a lot stronger than your backhand, but I do believe that people have a case. With the grip and the swing motion that you have now, you probably won't be able to handle the actual match shots.
    Just out of curiosity, what level do you see yourself as of now, and is that a semi-western grip? It looks to be something between SW and Extreme.
     
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  25. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    Stop running around your backhand.
     
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  26. Jakesteroni

    Jakesteroni Rookie

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    I see now when I compare it. Thanks.

    I play 4.5 now, its a western grip.
     
    #26
  27. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    You also are not concentrating on the "shield" in front of you, the point of contact varies without thought. (If you place your arm out high up, with elbow straight, and then lower it to waist ht., notice how that contact point is father out in front, than the higher or lower positions if you raise or lower your arm.) Your timing has to be more cognizant of the "shield". Wait longer for the low balls and high balls to come into perfect range than the medium balls. Roddicks fh is considered a sub par one on tour, due to its overly spinny nature and lacking in penetration.
     
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  28. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    You've gotten some tips and suggestions which should help. I'd like to add some input. don't get mad. just my opinion and trying to help...

    You have good control and can hit top fairly well. but...

    Wimpy shots. You shots don't penetrate the court. You swing fast/hard and the camera angle is at an advantageous angle so a lot of ppl here might think you are crushing the ball. But the actually those shots you are hitting are soft.

    If you look at your partner he's standing directly on baseline. He doesn't have to hit on the rise. Almost every shot he takes is when the ball is falling. That means your ball is not rising as it crosses the baseline. Also another indicator is look how much time he has. It looks like he has a loooooot of time to set up and return the ball. Also he's not shifting his weight into the ball and he's getting them all back. That means your shot has no weight to it. He has a lot of time to set up, he has a leisurely slow take back, a casual swing, not hitting on the rise and doesn't require any weight shift to fight off your ball. That equals wimpy ball.

    Now I can tell you are putting a lot of effort into your swing and all that so let's not go with the 'i was just rallying' reply. You need more power or a heavier ball or however you want to look at it. If I were rallying with you I'd be stepping inside and crushing those balls back to you. Hard.

    So I think one of the things you need to work on is getting some heaviness in to the shots. I think if you play an experienced 4.5 at this point you're going to have to work hard for a win.

    Plus that little hitch in your fh will most likely to cause problems come crunch time.

    So... get to it! good luck.
     
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  29. 0d1n

    0d1n Hall of Fame

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    Have you ever watched yourself on video ?? (Playing tennis, not in other "athletic circumstances").
     
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  30. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Wrong. Jack Sock hits the same way. I would not change it.

    And unless peoplespeace posted a new video that I am unaware of, he is not close to your level. your strokes look very solid and consistent to me.

    I also disagree with Cheetah. I don't think he understands how clean you are hitting in this video for just getting back to things.
     
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  31. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    You have no idea whether or not it would break down in a match. I doubt it would, even though it's a bit idiosyncratic.
     
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  32. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    dont listen to many of these guys like cheeyah. they shouldnt be on here giving advice they arnt coaches and they arent at a high level.

    im a 4.5-5.0 i think ur strokes look fine. there is no way for anyone to determine if how they would manage during a match. but my guess is it would be just fine...would like to see your serve you should post that.

    but again dont listen to some of these people are full of it
     
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  33. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I think being over concerned about your Fh is a great way to not get to 5.0 quickly. You don't see the value of working on a method to develop your overall game? If you think getting to 5.0 is about mainly having a couple of excellent strokes, then that will be the biggest block to getting there imho. You already said the Fh was your better side.
     
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  34. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    I'm not going to add much as Balla has pretty much said it already, other than to say I actually prefer your backhand to your forehand. Your backhand is tidy and compact, and but for a bit more extension with your left arm through contact, I really like it comported to your forehand. I'm not a huge fan of elbow led forehands, as there can be timing issues, and I think, as Balla said, that's where that 'hitch' comes from in your swing.

    However, I think you're generally doing a great job so far, so keep it up.

    Cheers
     
    #34
  35. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Your groundstrokes are fine for 5.0. Just more practice will get them back to where they were. The main thing you need to do is work on the rest of your game. Volleys, half-volleys, short balls, approaches, lobs, drop shots. These are shots you need in a match, but may hit rarely. Therefore, you aren't naturally going to get much practice on these so you have to make a point of working on them.
    As always the most important shot is the serve. A couple of baskets a day, at least.
     
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  36. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    yes i know video makes it appear slower than it actually is. It makes the ball look like it flies slower. It doesn't make ppl appear to move slower tho.
     
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  37. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    I said he is hitting well. Clean doesn't equal power. Most of his shots do not penetrate the court. That's a fact. and look at the guy he's hitting with. He's standing right on the baseline. He's not 5 feet behind it. he's not even 1 foot behind the baseline. he's standing on the baseline. Have you guys ever hit with someone who you'd consider "hits hard"? Do you stand right on the baseline when you hit with this person and have a lot of time to execute a casual stroke? I don't think so.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012
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  38. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Nice video. Nice that you took time to do that for him. That's worth $$ right there.
     
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  39. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    lol..ok man. His partner is prepping rather well and many times is hampered on his return due to his positioning. Plus they are rallying, not hitting hard.

    You sound like a guy who likes to hit hard when he rallys. Thats great. Doesn't translate to match play though. Do you play a lot of matches or still just do rallys like you said before? Because I think you are the guy who claimed to be a 4.5 and then admitted you barely ever play matches.
     
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  40. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Pace doesn't translate to match play? Really? Giving the opponent less time to react has no impact on a point? ok.

    Opponent can prep well because he has a lot of time. OP arms a lot of shots and is not transferring weight into the ball. If you can't see that then look at balla's video. And opponent is definitely not 'hampered many times'. He mishits a few times because he's hitting with a casual stroke. OP's forehand is a little on the slappy side. And slapping without proper weight transfer is going to equal soft ball.

    It doesnt matter if I am a 3.5 or a 5.5. The points i've given stand regardless. And it doesnt matter if they are rallying or hitting hard. You can clearly see the op is swinging hard. He has good racquet speed. Are you saying if he decided to 'hit hard' then his form would look totally different and he'd be driving through the ball and bending his knees more and have a more pronounced left hand extension and have a lot of weight transfer and rotating more into the shot?

    The fact is most of the balls are barely or not rising when they reach the baseline on the other side. If he wants to get to 5.0 he has to change that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012
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  41. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    It does if you can do it consistently and under match pressure.

    And even if it doesn't translate well right now, if you hit hard with good form you'll eventually get consistency with practice. I personally think it's a lot harder to have consistent but poor form and try to develop higher level pace and spin.
     
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  42. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Let me know when you can hit as consistent did as the OP under match pressure at any level. It is not easy. He is just rallying so it's not the same as a match. You want to get a groove going with your partner and work on timing and footwork.

    OP has really good strokes. I would not look at them and classify them as wimpy.
     
    #42
  43. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    ok wimpy was excessive. let me reword.
    OP, you have good strokes. I think you need to have a little more penetration on your shots.
     
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  44. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Do you like deep shots? Because there is a huge discussion on if more shallow balls placed closer to the alleys are the better option.

    Just something interesting to ponder. I am used to hitting deep, but I have lately been hitting more shallow and heavy with angles. The shots are safer, but still very hard to attack.
     
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  45. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Yes he is rallying. So why are you asking if I could hit with the same consistency under match pressure? What does it matter? Do you think the OP could? The thread is about the OP. not about what I can do or how well you can hit heavy angled short balls that can't be attacked.
     
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  46. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    Nice analysis there

    The racquet tip being above the hand throughout the takeback is something I've noticed many pros do. It's something ive been working on trying myself since the racquet tip for me was also more in line with my hitting hand. Curious as to your thoughts on the benefits of keeping the racquet tip up are?

    Thanks

    edit: doesn't have to be a comprehensive analysis or anything as I don't want to hijack the thread, but what are your thoughts on my takeback and what the racquet head is doing? I.e is it dropping too much?
    http://youtu.be/YVcWXW4Lcis
    It's just against a wall but it's what my latest swing looks like.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012
    #46
  47. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Tip up at the takeback allows the C loopy takeback, the key to a smooth fast swing from low to high.
    You can take it straight back and down, but you need to stop the rearward movement and transfer over to forward movement, something like ChrissieEvert, AnkeHuber, and some pretty good ATP 100's hit.
    All would be better than whatever we do right now.l
     
    #47
  48. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    ^ I actually wasn't really referring to the tip up at the start, I do this, but more so maintaining the tip up even at the completion of the takeback. The tip of the racquet would tend to drop to parallel with the ground for me like balla mentioned the OP is doing. Unless you were alluding to the entire takeback?
     
    #48
  49. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Tip up thru the whole process of rackethead takeback is what I"m referring to. That allows the tip to drop when the forward swing is initiated, not before, for a little extra rackethead speed and flow.
     
    #49
  50. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    ^ interesting, thanks
     
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