My serve. 100 + MPH with video and radar

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by drakulie, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Drakulie's serve may or may not be 200mph, but you sure-as need to grab a dictionary the next time you try to prove a point :/
     
    #51
  2. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, no problem it taking readings. However, If you serve away from the radar, for example out wide and the radar is set in the center of the court I noticed a slight curve in the reading.
     
    #52
  3. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    It takes the reading as it crosses a certain plain/bubble in front of the radar gun. So, it has to come into a ceratin area for the serve to be clocked. I guess the answer to your question is it does not measure it immediately after contact, rather as it approaches a "that area" in front of the gun.
     
    #53
  4. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    So really, some of those serves could be in the 110s. Nice. Although, as some others have commented, it just doesn't look that fast, but I realize that it's a low quality vid and would be much faster in person.
     
    #54
  5. emcee

    emcee Semi-Pro

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    I really wonder if I could serve 100 now. 90 is probably more likely. Aarghh, I need other people interested in my area so we can split the price!

    Nice serve. Seems really relaxed and fluid. Honestly, it doesn't look 107-fast, but hey you have the radar gun, I guess it's the angle/cam/other stuff.
     
    #55
  6. emo5

    emo5 Rookie

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    Yes, sadly, anything recorded and played again is slower.
    The only way see true speed is to be there LIVE.
    I believe you because once you watch tennis live the ball speed is 10 times faster.
     
    #56
  7. Roforot

    Roforot Professional

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    Nice serve. I agree that it looks slower, but part is b/c Drakulie's motion is very relaxed and it doesn't look like he's muscling it. Besides the Radar Gun :), another cue is to look at where the ball bounces off the back fence.
    If you have the time, would you mind showing us some kick serves as well?
     
    #57
  8. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    Nice serves. You are right about 3.5 and 4.0s having 80-90mph serves mostly. The 5.0-5.5 guys I know have 115 mph serves. I was radared at 110mph and next time I get to the baseball place with the radar guns I will take my racquet and camera. I didn't realize nobody had yet shown video of their serve with radar proof. Nice ground-breaking stuff there.

    Your ball hits the fence about the same height as mine so I definitely believe.
     
    #58
  9. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

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    Dictionary?

    dude your lame
     
    #59
  10. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    Drakulie,

    Nice of you(not to mention courageous) to share the videos with us.

    This low end Radar device would understate the speeds.

    One reason has already been mentioned, that the reading is taken at some distance after contact, by which time the air resistance has slowed it down.

    The other reason is that these Radar guns can only measure the component of velocity directly TOWARDS or AWAY from them.
    According to my calculation the angle you have understates speed by 1.5% to 2%, or about 2 mph.
     
    #60
  11. ZPTennis

    ZPTennis Semi-Pro

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    Its true that a hard hit serve will hit the back fence after one bounce. But more importantly, after you have enough speed the amount of topspin you have on the serve will greatly effect how high it hits on the fence. Topspin is what brings a ball down in to the court. The more topspin you have, the more downward force you have which then propels the ball higher after the bounce.

    I've noticed the biggest change, when I bend my legs a lot more on the serve and the ball hits a couple feet higher than normal. So unfortunately, you can't measure your service speed by the ball striking height on the fence.
     
    #61
  12. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    I'm starting to incorporate the leg bend into my serve as well, albeit, not that successfully. I've notice I don't have to try at all and my serves are hitting as high as they were when I was "arming" it at my hardest. Also, since I'm relaxing my wrist and grip, I can't feel how hard I'm hitting it either. It doesn't feel like I'm hitting it hard, but recipients say it was just as fast as before, but with more kick.
     
    #62
  13. no skillz

    no skillz Rookie

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    Pretty sweet serves, buddy.
    I hope this weekend your leg will be better and my ankle healed, so I could get a go at the radar. I am expecting probably 60-70mph serves, but interested to see what i can do.
    The video does the "sound" of the serve no justice. Because being on the receiving end of the serve you hear a "buzzing/whirling" sound as the ball makes contact with the service box and flyes towards you.
     
    #63
  14. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Hey No skills! Thanks for the input. Hopefully we will both feel better so we could play this weekend.

    To clarify what No Skillz is talking about, we have played before so he knows first hand what the serve actually sounds and feels like to return it live.

    The serve has that "crack" sound like a gun shot everyone is talking about. In addition, I put a lot of spin on all my serves so when you are on the receiving end you hear that "buzzing/bzzzzzzzzz sound" as the ball aproaches you, and explodes off the ground.
     
    #64
  15. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Sorry I did not respond last night I did not notice your post. Definitely email me when you are coming into town. I may be leaving to the Keys in the next few weeks, but if I am in town hopefully we could have a hit.
     
    #65
  16. no skillz

    no skillz Rookie

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    I played with some people at school the other day and it feels like their serves were floating through the air at a leasure pace towards me, compared to the bullet pace of your serve.
    I found that after I was able to return a fraction of your serves, I was able to return 9 out of 10 serves from other people. Even the serves that I used to have trouble with.
     
    #66
  17. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah I noticed the last time we played as you got more comfortable and use to the pace you were getting better timing and returning much better. I may have to make some adjustments.

    How are you liking those new strings?
     
    #67
  18. no skillz

    no skillz Rookie

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    Probably the best out of everything I have tried so far on this racquet. They retain tension, and still bearly moved. I get sweet spin with them and I am pretty sure because they are 15 gauge they will last for a while.
    I am still searching for a ps85 but no luck so far.
     
    #68
  19. ucd_ace

    ucd_ace Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, so many people think they can serve 100 mph. I'm guessing that most people who serve around 75-80mph and up think that they can serve over 100mph. They just don't realize how fast that actually is, and, usually, they've never seen anyone who really serves that hard. I, on the other hand, am well aware of the fact that I can't serve over 100mph. Mostly because I used to be able to before I hurt my shoulder, and I know that I'm nowhere near where I used to be even though I'm serving the ball plenty hard enough to win free points off of it.

    Your serve really doesn't look like it's going over 100mph, but videos on youtube of tennis never look like the ball is going that fast. That's why everyone on here thought that the video of DI tennis players (forget which school) were like 3.5-4.0's.
     
    #69
  20. tennis91

    tennis91 New User

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    well isnt it faster than that if u count it in tennis tournaments because they measure the mph right after the ball hits and leaves the racquet. And therefore the ball could lose half of its speed when it actually gets across
     
    #70
  21. jackofromalsager

    jackofromalsager Semi-Pro

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    i will try and post my serves in good quality with a radar gun. i am 13 so dont take the mik and hit 101mph in and 104mph out and my coach says u shud at 10 onto it
     
    #71
  22. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    If that radar gun was moved closer to the server, will you get an accurate reading?
     
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  23. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    No, the ball would be traveling at too much of an angle to the line of sight.

    If he placed it on a step ladder such that the serve would travel a foot or two above the device, and placed it about 20 feet inside the court, that would be optimal. I used to have a very similar model when I played Cricket. It picked up the speed when the ball got within 15 feet of it.
     
    #73
  24. TacoBellBorderBowl1946

    TacoBellBorderBowl1946 Professional

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    lol, if the OPs serve is 108, mine has to be 120
     
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  25. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Here are some serves from a different view. They are all to the deuce side. I placed the camera facing away from me directly on the opposite side of the net a few feet off the floor. The radar gun is also on the opposite side of the net, and half way up the T.

    98 MPH:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBOV9zsrps

    92 MPH up the T (How sweet it is to hit an ACE!) :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvs1-q9ip5E

    84 MPH Topspin (this one was a little long):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cH4w0H1V5c


    Enjoy!
     
    #75
  26. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Mav, thanks for your comments. yeah, as I said, most people tell me it has a +/- 2-3 mph difference. As you state, it does not measure immediately after impact, rather as it reaches a ceratin "area" in front of the radar.

    Also, I did notice a slight "curve" in the speed when you hit away from it.
     
    #76
  27. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    I think this angle gives a better idea of the pace of the serve, and the kind of action the ball bounces with. Definitely better sound from here too. It's easy to see that these are very well-struck serves, for those who had a hard time believing the first vids you posted.
     
    #77
  28. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    There will always be non-believers in the powers of the Force! LOL
     
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  29. dave333

    dave333 Hall of Fame

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    that really doesn't look like 100 at all....maybe the camera, but if thats 100, i must be serving around 100 too...which shouldn't be possible.

    edit:
    neva mind, didn't see the other set. lol mines only about 75 tops which was measured at my tennis camp. i wish i could serve 90 mph so much. but then, i just upped my swingweight up by a lo.
     
    #79
  30. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    A gunshot, a buzzing sound and an explosion? We are still talking about an 'only' 100-ish mph tennis-serve aren't we? ;) Let's go easy on the hyperbole....

    (For the record, and I have been trying not be a doubter here (in fact I haven't been a doubter), but some of the higher paced serves I've seen you hit do not have "a lot of spin on them". It's not a bad thing, but perhaps we should stay realistic here. They're great serves, timed over 100mph, but they're not massive kickers or twisters. I've been timed above 100, and even 120 once, but I'm not about to claim they were loaded up with spin because I know they weren't, and we can see your serves aren't!.)
     
    #80
  31. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Orangeone, here is a post (post #63) from someone who has played against me. Everyone I have played says the same thing. They could hear the buzzing as the ball approaches them. All my serves have a lot of spin.

    Here are some vids I posted today, so you could get a better perspective. As Fitzroy pointed out, you could really see the action on the ball.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBOV9zsrps

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvs1-q9ip5E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cH4w0H1V5c
     
    #81
  32. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    no 7.0 i think you lied :p. so thats 172 km/h. pretty good...i guess..
     
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  33. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    7.0 ???????
    You lost me.
     
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  34. str33t

    str33t Professional

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    just wondering where you can get a radar ?
     
    #84
  35. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Really sorry mate, but my issue is with the word ALL and the word LOT. From which perspective do you want me to reply?

    Raw Speed

    Notice how your speed dropped by over 20 mph from your bombs to your topspin serve you've just posted? (108 to 84?). That's the spin. That's some of your effort focussing on rotating the ball instead of just propelling it. It's the ball taking a curve through the air, instead of just ripping through it. It happens to all of us.

    Serves you just posted as proof

    Looking at the three serves you just posted (which were all slower than your big bombs from yesterday / the day before), the 84 was the only one that was really moving, although the other two did have some bite. They're still down 10mph on the flat bombs from the day before.

    Many years of playing

    Someone who has been playing for many years doesn't read the ball as much as they read the serve. You need to read the serve for a serve such as yours (or mine, or many other people with big serves), because the ball is on you too quick to just read the ball. Watching your serves from yesterday again, that was a motion that produces a pretty flat, fast ball. I've seen it before, I know what to expect.

    For the record

    You have a nice serve, that seems very solid & (from what we've seen) you have good placement control too. It's got pace, it's been timed at over 100mph, and (to me) it seems that fast. You also have a nice topspin serve. But all I ask is realism - ALL of your serves do not have a LOT of spin on them, a quick look at the motion and the trajectory reveals that. That doesn't make it a bad thing, it just makes you human like the rest of us (including Federer). Our fastest serves have not too much spin on them, and the more spin we add, the (relatively) slower our serves get.

    Want the flip-side? If ALL of your serves DO have a LOT of spin on them, why haven't you gone out and cracked a 120 flat bomb, which should be easily possible if you can put down a 108 with a LOT of spin? (I'm not being a hater here, just trying to show the devil's advocate side).

    As for:

    I'm off to email some mates and ask some club-mates on the weekend if they've heard mine buzz, I'll also be listening carefully to the serves of others. Thankfully there's an Open on too - so there'll be some 200k monster-servers present to stand on the fence for and have a listen to!
     
    #85
  36. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Orange, thanks for the input. I agree with you to certain degrees. A couple of things to keep in mind. I'm not tall, I'm 5'9". If i hit completely flat serves with very little spin, I wouldn't be able to get the ball in the box very often. I would have to hit serves that barely skim the net. Just a fact of life. (sucks to be short).

    Second thing is that although the serves I posted today are slower on the radar, you need to keep in mind the radar is much further away than the ones I posted yesterday. The radar on yesterdays serves are a few feet in front of the net facing me. The ones I posted today, the radar is halfway up the service line on the other side of the net. That is a huge difference, as this radar does not pick up the speed immediately after impact, rather when it approaches an area in front of the radar. So you have to account for that.

    I too have hit against guys who serve 110- 120, etc. Some of them hit extremely flat and you hear that loud pop, but in these cases if they do not put a lot of spin on the ball I don't hear the buzzing.

    On the other hand, I have hit with guys who hit in the 90's with ridiculous spin and I could clearly hear the buzzing.


    Just something to think about. Peace, and again thanks for your input.
     
    #86
  37. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    Looks like your were inches away from having a bunch of small pieces of plastic for a radar gun.. sure that is yours?
     
    #87
  38. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Point taken :). I'm 6'2.5", and cranking big serves comes easier. There's downsides too - fitting in aeroplane seats / small cars / many beds / etc etc - I'd rather be you than me!

    Yup - I see and agree with what you're saying here.

    I am known for saying I'm a bit deaf (and maybe I am :)), so I really can't wait for the weekend to listen carefully and ask some people.

    Right back at you. I like discussions that can be had in detail with sane people, sometimes they're hard to find on here. Now.... I need to find myself a radar gun. That toy looks way too cool!
     
    #88
  39. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    #89
  40. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    #90
  41. superbooga

    superbooga Rookie

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    Overall the serves are very good.

    About the second set of videos, putting the radar gun at the service line will drop the speeds by at least 10mph.

    For those people who want to know if you can serve 100mph, you can ask yourself these questions:

    1. Is my motion smooth and relaxed?
    2. Does the racquet drop all the way down when I start the swing?
    3. Do I have good shoulder rotation?
    4. Do I have good pronation?

    If you can answer "yes" to all four questions and are male, then you should be able to serve 100mph with moderate effort. Now the problem is most recreational players just don't have all these components.

    For a 100mph serve, the ball should hit the ground at about the same time the racquet bobs upward after the followthrough.
     
    #91
  42. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    the thread "what nrtp rating are you". You and 2 other idiots said 7.0 :D
    On another note though..at work we have one the same as yours. Whenever i pull it out it just continuously shows random figures..is there something wrong with it?
     
    #92
  43. shrakkie

    shrakkie Semi-Pro

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    wow going by the OP's vids my serves must be above 100mph aswell,haha!:mrgreen:
     
    #93
  44. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Actually, I mistakenly hit the wrong button, and it does not allow you to go back and change it. Here is my post from that thread:


    You have to put it in "pro mode" or it will pick up every movement. A hand, someone walking, etc.

    Turn the machine on. Push the mph and recall button at the same time and it will only show movements going over 35 mph. In my videos, you will notice when the mph light blinks, there is also another light blinking underneath where the numbers are displayed. This means it is in pro mode.
     
    #94
  45. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    I used to have one that looked and worked exactly like this, except it had the brand name SpeedCheck. I used it for cricket, which is what I played until last year when I switched to Tennis.

    I felt it understated the speeds(or the speeds you see on TV are overstated). I have a good throwing arm, can throw a cricket ball(roughly like a baseball, but fractionally heavier and harder) 75 yards(225 ft) in the air, but the best throwing speed I could ever clock was 74 mph.

    In terms of bowling speeds, the fastest in my team was only 68 mph, and a "first class"(cricket equivalent of a NTRP 6.5) fast bowler reached only 71 mph. But when you watch international matches on TV, the fastest bowlers are between 95 and 100, and even part-time bowlers who just jog in and turn their arm are in the high 70s.
     
    #95
  46. no skillz

    no skillz Rookie

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    Can you also measure the speed of groundstrokes with that little machine?

    I would be interested to know how fast some of my forehands and backhands are.
     
    #96
  47. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah, you could measure them as well. I'm sure some of your ground strokes are in the 60-70's. We'll find out next time we hit.
     
    #97
  48. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    You could do it in warm ups if you have a ball machine or a consistent hitting partner. Place the device behind you , and hit your shot in a direction perpendicular to its face.

    Note that it picks up the first object in its field(at least 15 ft, may be more) that is moving faster than 35 mph(in pro mode) . The incoming ball and your racket should be slower than that. Most ground strokes slow down to less than 20 mph by the time the opponent hits them.
     
    #98
  49. no skillz

    no skillz Rookie

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    I will probably be all set to hit saturday morning.

    I am playing at school today, I will see how my leg feels after.

    I am not going to play safe today, I will try to put pressure of the opponent and use more pace, since this is only a practice match.
     
    #99
  50. dave333

    dave333 Hall of Fame

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    me and some friends had some fun with those and measured our racquet speeds!
     

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