My serve. 100 + MPH with video and radar

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by drakulie, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    I read essentially this statement in the Howard Brody book, which BTW is essential for every Tennis geek.
    They say racket "power" and string tension makes makes no difference to pace of serve. I wanted to say this earlier when someone suggested Drakulie try a more powerful racket with lower tension.

    But I didn't say anything because it seemed (to me) to contradict with something else in the book. They say the serve speed will be pretty much equal to the racket speed is at point of contact. I have some issues with accepting this, because it implies that you should use a long, feather-light, stiff racket that you can whip through very fast.
     
  2. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    i find ZP's to be the fastest, drak's to be the most effortless. I also think drak's would be harder to return.
     
  3. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    The 115 sqaure inch racket is practicly feather weight. It is really light and head heavy. I still couldn't swing the racket any faster. I did get a higher average using my 13.4 oz i radical os though.

    I'll try disabling pro mode next time because that was the only time I thought I saw a 101.

    I accidently dropped a c battery on the gun when I first got the gun. The last time the gun suffered an impact.
     
  4. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I read a similar article/study once, which mostly focused on baseball bats (Aluminum vs. Wood).

    The study showed that there was no difference in how far a ball will travel off either bat with the same pitch speed. Each bat had the same length and weight. The only thing that affected the distance the ball travels was the speed of the bat, and where on the bat you hit the ball.

    The study also "touched" on tennis. It said more of the same. However, also stated the tension of the strings (the range in each racquet used, ie. 55-65) did not effect the speed. However, if it was strung tooooo loose, or under the recommended range there would be a drop in the pace.

    My opinion is that this "new technology" doesn't give more power or control. I have seen guys who have every radical. Each time Agassi switched to the new Head radical they would go out and buy the "new and improved, more powerful, more control" Head Radical. Guess what? I never saw an increase in thier pace. You would think if the new technology really worked, these guys with the same swing speed as before would be hitting harder with the new racquet.
     
  5. amit_ace

    amit_ace New User

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    I am not questioning ur wisdom...but what makes u say drak's wud be harder to return... have u -played any one of them..or u r judging by something else??
     
  6. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    I put my radar up a hill and performed some close range serving on the fence. The gun clocked 1 serve at 103mph and 4 at 101mph. Hit another serve putting the gun by the net and scored 101mph. The 101 I managed to hit landed in right down the T standing from the deuce side. After I got the 101 I stopped serving.

    Racket Yonex RD Ti 70 ( 88 ) mid
    String: Freshly strung Luxilon 5 Star at 56 lbs. (Strung same day the serve was hit)

    Pro mode on the gun was disabled in this session cause nothing I hit seems to go over 99mph when it was enabled.

    I'm not sure if I can serve significantly faster than this. Most serves hovered around 86 to 90s. An occasional serve would get into the upper 90s or break it and reach over a 100.
     
  7. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    skuludo congrats. Why did you disable pro mode? I find when it is not in pro mode it becomes a task, becase if I walk in front of it, it clocks me walking, or if a ball rolls by, etc.
     
  8. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    My new max is 104mph. I walked very slowly to the gun when I hit a 101 earlier today. Practlicly human snail speed. I think it took me about 3 minutes moving very carfuly to the gun. Next I would enable pro mode and then walk to the shade and press the recall button, so I could see the number.

    I disabled pro mode because for some reason I couldn't get over 99mph. I'm not sure if this might've been the cause, but when I just got the gun I accidently dropped a battery on the gun when I was standing up. Never got to use the gun and that happened. It was the last time the gun suffered an impact.

    When I hit the 104 it was just dark enough to see the numbers clearly from where I was serving.

    Used the Ti 70 mid that had 4 week old Babolat Pro Hurricane Tour strung at 50lbs.

    I tried clocking my racket swing speed for a serve and generated 14mph (1 of 2 swings. 2nd swing didn't get detected.). Have you tried clocking your serve swing speed drakulie?
     
  9. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, but I will try that. Never thought of it. I will post it when I do.
     
  10. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    14 mph is too low. The racket tip speeds are very close to the serve speeds, according to the Howard Brody book.

    You can't measure bat/racket speeds with this gun. It picks up the first thing it senses moving faster than its cutoff speed, for which there are two possible settings, prod mode and standard mode. If you are accelerating something over a short distance, you have little hope of it picking up the max. speed.

    Also 14 mph is a speed any Tennis player can run at. If you run full speed from the baseline for a drop shot and hold your racket rigidly, the resulting shot gives a good idea of the kind of serve a 14 mph swing would produce.
     
  11. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well, it took a lot of different tries, but I did get the radar to clock the swing speed on a few serves at over 80.

    But as maverick said, who knows what exactly it is "picking up" because one swing would be 30+, then 50+, then 35, etc. You get the point.
     
  12. takeuchi

    takeuchi Rookie

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    I played skuludo today, and he brought his radar. I must say that thing is pretty nifty. Haha I never knew how hard it was to break 100mph! Good job drakulie and nice vids!
     
  13. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    takeuchi, if you don't mind me asking.....answering honestly, how fast did you think you served before the radar? Did you feel you could hit 90? 100?

    And, how fast were you able to get with the radar?

    Thanks.
     
  14. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    Drakky are you serving continental? Prior to today I was serving eastern, and when I tried continental I couldnt even get it in the court. It also felt extremely awkward.
     
  15. takeuchi

    takeuchi Rookie

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    Honestly I thought I could probably hit around 100mph consistently with the possibility of hitting harder-1st serve with spin.

    When I tried the radar I was averaging in the 90s on the first serve, and low to mid 70s on the 2nd serve. My fastest was 102.

    So I was able to break 100....but that was pretty tough to do, I doubt I would be able to do it in a match. I'm guessing I'd be serving high 80s in a match on first serve, and in the 90s if I went for a little bit more.

    This just lets me know that I need to work on my serve more often.
     
  16. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    i think you'll find once you play a lot of talented servers, it's easier to return fast paced flat serves as they are very predictable after the bounce, whereas, serves with lots of spin and decent pace tend to catch you off guard as well as force you to hit outside of your comfort zone.

    that's my take
     
  17. fedbandian

    fedbandian New User

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    ur serve has great techniuque until u hit it if u watch the frames u have wats a called a "waiter" maybe you should show your coach this and your serve could be much faster if its calredy that qucik now
     
  18. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    isn't the waiter position promoted?
     
  19. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes continental. Going from the eastern to a continental for the first time is a little tricky and uncomfortable. But keep at it and you will see it will improve your serve immensely.
     
  20. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    "Waiter"? I have no idea what you are talking about. Please explain.

    By the way, I don't have a coach, but am certified to coach others.
     
  21. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    This is a good point, but what a lot of people here aren't realising also is that a flat serve is going to lose the most pace after bouncing.

    Really all measurements should be taken from where the opponent will return.

    With the addition of spin the ball will end up faster at the ending point, and as mentioned more unpredictable.

    I stoped the "speed trap" a long time again, the faster it got the more points I lost.

    Once I focused on spin and placement my serve is far more effective, higher percentage in, easier to perform.
     
  22. takeuchi

    takeuchi Rookie

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    He's talking about "waiter's wrist" when in the takeback and throw the wrist is layed back robbing the server of power.

    HOWEVER, I disagree with the original persons statement as it does not look like you are doing this. I think you should ignore his post.
     
  23. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well, if that is what he meant his observation is horrible as I don't do that at contact like he stated.
     
  24. fedbandian

    fedbandian New User

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    noooooo not in britain it isnt

    in the long term it leads to tennis elbow and shoulder problems
    on top of that it is harder to get vareity
     
  25. fedbandian

    fedbandian New User

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  26. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    fedbandian, I see your point. However, you stated earlier I have a "waiters wrist" at contact, which is completely innacurate. You are correct when you state a "waiter's wrist at contact" will decrease the power, and variety.

    However, in picture 4 as you point out, my wrist is laid back as a result of a relaxed arm, and wrist. Doing this enables me to hit with power, and is technically correct. Not the other way around as you are promoting. Having a stiff wrist would actually deprive you of power.
     
  27. Swissv2

    Swissv2 Hall of Fame

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    I think its about time other people send in videos of their serve being recorded :D - Drak took the first bold step.
     
  28. War Safin!

    War Safin! Professional

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    Drakulie - what's the setup spec. of your Prostaff, i.e. lead-tape, string tension, etc?
     
  29. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    approximately 4 inches of lead at 3 & 9.

    String: Ashaway Kevlar Crossfire II - 16 gauge.

    String at 70 lbs.
     
  30. Voltron

    Voltron Hall of Fame

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    Pffft, like I'd know
    Wow, great serve even with an injury.

    Voltron
     
  31. War Safin!

    War Safin! Professional

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    Nice setup.

    I tried the 'Sampras setup' on my Prostaff Original (China), using Babolat Natural Gut 17 @65lb and with 24g of lead tape at 3 and 9 o'clock on the hoop....the power and control I got from that was awesome.

    Unfortunately, that gut costs a bomb and doesn't last very long!
     
  32. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I actually don't have a clue how much lead weight I have on the racquet. I just started with lead from 1-5, & 7-11 and worked my way down until I like the way it felt.

    As for gut, it is real nice string but cost way too much and does not last long at all. Here in South Florida with the humidity, it loses it's feel very quickly.

    In addition, I like the "boardy" feel the kevlar gives, the control is extremely good, and volleys are solid.
     
  33. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    welp, i took the plunge and bought one of these puppies (SpeedTrac Hands-Free radar gun). you were right drak, much harder than I thought.

    My fastest clocked at 111 mph, but i had to revert back to my old "arming" with minimal leg action method of serving in order to achieve that. My new, hopefully more technically sound serve was only capable of mustering up a 96 mph. I placed the radar behind the net to protect it and on average my serves broke 100.

    Can't wait til my back heals. I'm aiming for 120, if possible. I'll make sure to post video next time.
     
  34. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    Wow! you got these numbers and you say "much harder than I thought" ?
    Did you expect to be serving 120+ ?
    If you averaged 100 with the radar gun behind the net, the true speeds must be 105+. Do you realize how good that is? I am just trying to crack 90 once in a while.
     
  35. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    maybe he meant his serves were harder(faster) than he thought...I hope otherwise I'll be very upset :D
     
  36. no skillz

    no skillz Rookie

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    Drak,
    How are you? Long time I havent spoken to you.
    I was just able to start to play this week, and I started to really focus on my serves. But I am going to Orlando to play against UCF this weekend.
    How is your foot?
    Hopefully we will be able to start playing again.
     
  37. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    heh, i'll just shut up then :), I don't want to upset anyone.

    However, I AM aiming for 120 mph on the radar gun with it placed behind the net by about 3-4 inches. Once my back heals, I'll give it another go. I strained it a week and a half ago and last night was the first time I've served since. I probably won't be able to put in another session until next week because I have matches this week and a tournament this weekend.
     
  38. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    oh, and P.S. maverick, most of them were clocked at around 105, give or take 3. I hit 109 several times--first serves, that is
     
  39. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    Sounds similar to my experience last year at the baseball place with the radar. My numbers were like 110, 110, 109, 109, 108, 107, 106, 106, 106, 105, 104, 104, 103, 102, 102, 100, 98, 98, 97, 95 but in a random order.
     
  40. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Congrats! Definitely a lot harder than people understand. As with mav, I'm surprised you sad it is hard but yet say you hit 111, and your serves broke 100 on average.

    Were they landing in?

    Now all you have to do is video it. Myabe you could be the first guy on the boards with a 110+ serve with video and radar.
     
  41. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    No skillz, I'm better. Glad to hear your ankle healed. I'm going to try and play this weekend for the first time since we last hit. It has been about a month right?

    Good luck at UCF this week. When you get back we definitely have to hit again.

    I'm going to try and video my serve from an angle to show pronation. If the video is able to clearly show the swing, I will post it.
     
  42. scez

    scez Semi-Pro

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    You just got the same radar gun as Drak and have an 100+ mph serve, post videos already!
     
  43. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    The fear is to measure your speed and then find it is only ~50mph LOL Now that would suck but I am sure even I would be suprised.
     
  44. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    woof, there was this kid who came in today and registered a 119 mph with the radar behind the net. he's gonna get to 120 before me.

    and to answer your question drak, I actually can't remember. I was just hitting them and looking at the number display. I can tell you with my old serve I usually got in about 50% of my first serves, so to answer your question, there was a 50% chance that it was in ;)
     
  45. julianoz

    julianoz Semi-Pro

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    Are australians always douchebags?

    Whats with the people on this board?
     
  46. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    Your not going to get a 50mph serve unless you try to hit it. To get a speed under 20mph you need to hit the ball with your frame causing underspin by hitting the 12 o clock position. You need to almost compltly miss the ball to achieve that speed (Make sure the ball does not make contact with the strings.) I did it and the serve was so slow that it never registered on the radar gun. After the bounce the ball didn't move, so it must've been 0mph. I used a western forehand grip to hit the serve. The ball hit the tip of my racket by accident.

    I am still waiting for my stomach to recover, so I can hit overhead serves again. I'm not going to play in overdrive mode and serve through the pain again.

    I'll post a video once I am setup. I still need to install drivers for my video capture card.
     
  47. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    Nah Aussies aren't douchebags. Take me for an example! :D
     
  48. scez

    scez Semi-Pro

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    Well he has used it on his college team and himself and has seen that his serve is 100+ mph.
     
  49. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    It was a joke buddy LOL notice I included myself ;)



    As for the other poster how did he get 119mph if it was measured at the net?
     
  50. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    LOL, classic.
     

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