My serve, critique away.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Say Chi Sin Lo, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
    #1
  2. Giannis

    Giannis Rookie

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    Technique looks good, you could try transfering your weight more to the back foot before the toss, but i dont think it would change much. If you can serve with more pace and get 60% in, then its great.
     
    #2
  3. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Can't view. "Tennis" Album asks for password from me.

    When I click on the video I get this.



    This is a Private Album

    Please enter the password from album saychisinlo to view this private album.

    Private Album Password:

    Note: cookies must be enabled and not blocked
     
    #3
  4. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    toss further forward (current toss is over your head).
     
    #4
  5. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I think your serve looks good. The one technical change I would recommend is to to turn a little more and get your right elbow a little further back, away from your body, at the peak of the toss, so that your opponent can see it sticking out behind you. That will give you a longer windup for more acceleration. Just a little more than you are doing now. You don't want to overextend on the windup.

    The other advice I would give you is to practice hitting both sides, and down the middle, of each service box. In a match, you want to know that you can hit first and second serves to your opponent's forehand, backhand, and right at him, as needed.
     
    #5
  6. ondray

    ondray Guest

    All that precious potential energy in the bent knees fizzles.
     
    #6
  7. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Thank you. I'm barely trying here (hardly using any arm). I think I am transferring my weight more to my back foot, I push off of my back foot and jump into the court. I'll try the "before the toss" thing though.

    Try it again? I clicked on my own link without signing into photobucket and I can see the videos.

    Toss is forward, probably couldn't tell from the behind the back angle.

    About the longer windup/more acceleration thing. I'm not sure if I'm comfortable about it. I've had two shoulder surgeries and since then, I've adopted my original motion into the current form. It's the least stressful for me. And like I said, I'm barely trying here. I usually practice all four corners and the body serve. I just wanted to make a quick video to allow people to critique my motion.

    Not sure I know what you mean by that. Are you saying it's good that I bent my knees or are you saying even with bent knees, the serve don't look all that impressive :) ? If the latter, please keep in mind I'm barely trying and these balls are dead.


    Thank you thank you!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
    #7
  8. ondray

    ondray Guest

    Sorry, I was just joking around.

    Yea, you have an excellent knee bend but it seems like you are not turning it into a more explosive movement upwards/outwards.

    If you explode more upwards, you can hit the ball at higher heights and get more variety in angles and spins. Legs also contribute to the pace of the serve.

    My thoughts anyway. Cheers.
     
    #8
  9. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Can't agree with you more. When I'm practicing serves, I never go all out. I rather serve more balls per session. As to why I still bend my knees while practicing? I don't know, I guess it's just part of my motion. It's kind of awkward if I were not to bend my knees.

    But in real matches, I do jump more upwards and into the court.
     
    #9
  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Looks OK at the C or 3.5 level.
    You are not solid on the prep position.
    Your swing is actually not bad.
    Your racketpath is doing something weird, like not going into the ball.
    You have no pace, shown the the short bounce before the backboard.
    You basically can't or don't swing fast enough, and don't/can't use your whole body to move thru the serve into the court, twisting and ab crunching to add rackethead speed.
     
    #10
  11. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    still can't view your video

    Same result. I see nothing but a blank Photobucket page. it has your account and / "Tennis", when I click "Tennis" it says private album...password... .

    I believe that have I viewed something on PB recently. ?
     
    #11
  12. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    That would explain it. Best of luck.
     
    #12
  13. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    toss further ahead and a bit more to your right. Look at your body position at contact - a lot of the time your tilted to the left.

    otherwise, looks like a great motion. Good fundamental positions, and very loose and fluid.
     
    #13
  14. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    You're right, I'm not solid on the preparation position. It's not consistent enough. And for the x time, the balls are dead. I could spike them and not much will happen after the bounce. Also because I'm just practicing, I don't put everything into each ball. I rather serve more balls than to serve myself out. HOWEVER, there is some truth to your last statement, maybe I don't use enough abs. I definitely don't "clamp" down my midsection. Thanks!

    Thank you for pointing that tilt to the left thing. I'll try to work on it. The ball is tossed ahead, maybe not far enough? But I don't want to be chasing the ball at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
    #14
  15. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    Hard to tell the depth of your toss, so might not be a problem. But definitely the tilt to the left thing needs work :)
     
    #15
  16. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I think it's because my body naturally follow where the racquet head end up. That's my only explanation. Otherwise I don't know why I tend to end up on my left side. :confused:
     
    #16
  17. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    probably because your toss is too far to the left!
     
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  18. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Haha, noted!
     
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  19. Giannis

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    When you are in trophy pose, you should push off mostly your front foot.
     
    #19
  20. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    LOL I didn't know I had a trophy pose. I'll note that as well, thanks!
     
    #20
  21. Ben Hadd

    Ben Hadd Semi-Pro

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    Looks nice. Have you tried pointing your chest more skyward?
     
    #21
  22. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    technique is good. you are keeping the same motion each time. it looks a tad slow but thats probably just video/angle stuff. good serve!
     
    #22
  23. klementine

    klementine Hall of Fame

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    There are so many things you're doing right. It depends on what is comfortable for you and work on getting the most out of it. Just look at the ATP.. so many different styles and techniques on serve.

    This is what I like to do when serving.

    -I always rock my left toe to heel before sliding with the right and springing up a bit. This helps shift my body weight forward.

    -I always hold the ball with three fingers on the placement of the ball... or the toss... I like to refer to it as placement. The three finger technique helps me control the placement better and ensures that the ball is right in the zone. Whether out in front for flat serves or up and out a little for kickers.

    -I always keep my chin pointing high and nice during placement of ball and through contact, this ensures that I keep my posture straight, chest and arms extended. The chin seems to be a focal point for the upper body movement for me.

    -And very important for me... I always make sure to extend my left hip out a bit upon placing the ball. This helps store the energy needed to come around quicker and for some reason helps with pronating that wrist. Really gets some power.
     
    #23
  24. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    thats what you do......not what everyone should do. why dont you post a video for us to watch klementine
     
    #24
  25. klementine

    klementine Hall of Fame

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    ^ Not a bad idea.

    I know that's what I DO.. That's what I said in my opening comment. Referring to varying styles. Never said that he should 'do what I do'... just what I like to do.
     
    #25
  26. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Klementine79, I can see what you mentioned would work with a lot of people. Here's my take on your suggestions:

    1) I never shuffle my feet. I don't like happy feet when I'm serving. It's too busy and to me. To me, it's another thing that can go wrong. I have tried to shuffle my feet, but it just didn't work. Planting my feet works far better.

    2) I hold the ball with my fingertips, so I can just sort of release the ball, instead of chucking the ball up.

    3) Chin thing is a very good suggestion. I'll try it, however it already sounds difficult.

    4) Sort of lost about the hip thing... :confused:
     
    #26
  27. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    Looks pretty good, technically its solid. Toss a bit further in front and try to uncoil more into the ball. Deeper knee bend combined with a heavier shoulder rotation will get that ball into the back fence after one bounce (flat balls or not).
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
    #27
  28. klementine

    klementine Hall of Fame

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    I paid good money for those tips.. :smile:
    You're already keeping your chin high. Hence you're making good contact. Don't worry about that!

    Yeah, I try not shuffling my feet and it doesn't work.. Federer also has a 'foot-plant' and doesn't shuffle... actually it looks like you've watched some vids of Fed serving. But he does something with his feet that subtle, not a shuffle exactly, it's a subtle motion that helps get more body weight forward.

    About the the left hip sticking out. Watch videos of Sampras serving, you'll see what I mean. Although I haven't figured out how to stick my hip out and get that nice knee bend you have at the same time. Sampras does this very well. It helps provide massive momentum when you uncoil and for some reason puts you in a perfect position to snap the wrist more naturally.

    I simply wrote what I like to be conscious of when serving.. a mental check list if you will.

    The last thing you need is to have to think too much when serving and lose the fluidity of your serve.

    That's why I suggested to get better at the things you do well. Besides no matter what any of us say or suggest, nothing beats on-court coaching and tweeking.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
    #28
  29. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Well that's nice to hear, similarity between my serve and Mr. Federer's serve. Thank you thank you :)

    I like Federer's serve, but I didn't model mine after his. It just sort of evolved into the current form.

    Left hip sticking out, do you mean an excessive back arch?

    Fluidity is key for me, it's just so much more efficient and easy on the body. Each time I practice serving, I usually serve 250-300 serves. I'm never exhausted afterwards. I can have serving sessions on consecutive days and not be in agony. The latter part means a lot to me since I have had two rotator cuff surgeries.
     
    #29
  30. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Archer's bow, effected when you hold the tossing hand really high for a longer than normal time, your hips go towards the opponent, allowing your stomach muscles to contract when the body turns forwards to face opponent during the actual forward swing.
    That, a high hand, high elbow finish just after ball strike, and a much more aggressive swing even if you're just goofing around doing 300 serves.
    Practicing slow technique only makes you play like that in a tight match.
    You practice half speed, you WILL play at half speed.
     
    #30
  31. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    High elbow finish, as in the Sampras motion?

    Although I practice at half speed, I do not play at half speed. I definitely serve harder in matches than I do in practice. I see why that may be a problem, but I don't. I'm able to switch gears so to speak on the fly.

    I just don't see the merits of killing my shoulder in practice.
     
    #31
  32. q4short

    q4short New User

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    looks good to me! you don't need any work, lets just play lol
     
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  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Sorry, practicing at half speed means you play at half speed, period.
    NOBODY can up their game 50% or even 30% over what they practice at.
    THINK about this. WHY would every top player alway look for other top players to practice against? If your theory hold true, a 7.0 Pro would only need a good 5.5 to practice with.
    BUT THEY DON'T. They need other 7.0's to practice with AT FULL SPEED.
    Serving slow just tells your mind that you serve slow. You cannot increase the pace on demand. You are not a machine that can be turned up. You are what your practice.
    But if you don't care, or disagree, keep doing what you're doing. It works for you, so be it. However, you'll be stuck just where you're at.
     
    #33
  34. q4short

    q4short New User

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    @LeeD: So your logic is that you should always practice at 100% if you intend to compete and improve 100%. I disagree.. partially.

    Practice is practice, you work on different things and try different "gears." Different situations, drills, or goals of each practice calls for different intentionality. I agree that never practicing your higher, 100%, gears is not a good idea, but who's to say Say Chi doesn't practice harder serves in practice games or drills?
     
    #34
  35. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    There are merits of going 100% during practice, but I think one should only do it for a limited of time. I'll train and hit the gym hard, but I refuse to go full blast 100% at 100% of the time. If I'm just blasting everything, I'll never get the chance to work on my timing and fluidity.

    I think there are various definition of "practicing hard". I believe one can practice hard in the physical sense, mental sense, and finally reflection.

    Physically, yeah you want to be able to practice so when it's time for you to put away a ball in a match, you can do it without thinking too much about it.

    Mentally, I'd like to think about how I can hit a better shot. For example: before I used to hit a slice serve out wide once in a while. And it's completely accidental. So I think about it. Alright, I know I can hit it, but how did I actually do it? Now it's become my go-to serve on the deuce side and because I know it's going into the corner (or close to it), I'm prepared to come in and put away an easy winner. Or just get a cheap point out of it :). My backhand, it used to be flat and not very pretty. I needed more topspin. I realized I was straight-arming my backhand instead of allowing my arm to sort of "uncoil". Now, while it's not as big of a weapon as forehand, but it's a weapon now nonetheless.

    Reflection, I'd like to see what's working, what's not working, and how else can I use my shot making ability to end points early. I'm fairly confident in my return game. So I used to go after EVERY (1st and 2nd) serves. But I was giving away more free points than I was cracking flat out winners. Now, I react to 1st serves and if I can get the racquet on the ball, I try to place it deep instead of cracking a winner when I'm stretched out. Then I rely on my baseline game to either setup a putaway, come into the net.

    To me, that's practice. It's not just go all out until I'm exhausted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
    #35
  36. ahuimanu

    ahuimanu Rookie

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    Technically, it looks like a sound service motion. However, I think you need to "load" (hold in the backswing and creating tension primarily in the legs) longer and aggressively extending upward and outward "attacking" the ball (e.g. Nadal or Fed). I see a little deceleration of your swing at the end (not helpful) and you actually want to go slow (load) and explode into the ball.

    Otherwise, its OK for casual or social tennis :)


     
    #36
  37. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    if you practice it properly, at least occasionally, there's less risk of injuring your shoulder when you "switch gears on the fly" during match play. i imagine you'll be even better at finding your higher gear.

    LeeD is right in this case, you should put in a hard practice at least once in a while.
     
    #37
  38. mbm0912

    mbm0912 Professional

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    I'd be willing to bet he needs more ISR :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
    #38
  39. maggmaster

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    This post is 2 years old?
     
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  40. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    #40
  41. samarai

    samarai Rookie

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    very nice looking serve. your serve looks a lot better than some of the 4.0 and 4.5 players on my court. and these players go to state almost every year.
     
    #41
  42. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    first things first, he needs high speed video......then an analysis of his ISR
     
    #42
  43. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Excellent form.
    World's slowest, most least energy expending swing ever.
     
    #43
  44. vic59

    vic59 New User

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    keep your eyes more long time on the ball and
    leaning on the ball with body weight and more follow through
     
    #44
  45. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Biggest problem, good form with very little swing, so nobody can tell what happen's when he swings like he would in a match.
    Dead balls are fine, it's the speed off the racket that counts, not the landing speed.
    Slow swings.....if that is how you swing in a match, you have very good form, you like to stay back after serving...and with that weak swing you'd have to....
    Now let's see you swinging at some serves.
     
    #45
  46. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    ... I wasn't aware this was brought back to life... -.- Haha, thanks for embarrassing me guys.

    I've got recent practice match videos coming, take them apart guys.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
    #46
  47. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    #47
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Very Federer looking game.
    Very nice, average serve, which you can improve with a slightly longer swing before impact, and of course, a faster swing.
    Lots of safety in your strokes, and good depth from both of you.
    Solid 4.0, can move up with just better targeting.
     
    #48
  49. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Some generally nice hitting.

    What strikes me still is how you still almost completely arm your forehand - there is almost no core involvement at all. After the previous discussion on the topic can you not recognise you're doing this?

    You have good timing, good prep and swing path - if you engaged your torso you would be nailing forehands. The guys you play against would barely get any of them back. As Lee D commented on above, I think your abbreviated take-back is part of it. If you took a longer swing it would force you to engage more of your body.
     
    #49
  50. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    It's a nice game. Not much activity from the feet, not very aggressive hitting is really the only critique. Get a 98!! j/k.

    If you were looking for any impressions or TT tips, mine would be to get more aggressive in your hitting. Also on your serve return, step in a little and split step on contact before moving into the serve. That will really help you get more pressure on the serve returns.

    You have a really nice serve motion, but are not getting the power potential from it still. I think that could come with a bigger swing to contact from the racquet drop.
     
    #50

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