My stringing woes and adventures

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by djNEiGht, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    I was lent a stringer (ATS Super Stringer drop weight) for a good length of time as he now has a crank set up. It has some nice upgrades to it. I did my first racquet in a 2 piece doing the 50/50 pattern with Volkl Classic Syn Gut.

    My primary racquets are Boris Becker Londons with leather grip and just enough lead at 10/2 to bring balance back to stock. Current string job is Solinco Tour Bite/NXT Tour. Should be just over 12 ounces. The racquet I strung up was a stock London.

    I had some set backs while reading the instructions and watching YouTube videos. When I started the mains doing the 50/50, I didn't realize I was off by one hole until I was about done with the 1st piece. I was able to start over and in having to do so, I guess you could say that I pre-stretched the string. :-| Doing the crosses went better (also doing 50/50) with the exception of the weaving. Watching the experienced stringers do the crosses seems like it is much easier than it is.

    I cut the string with about 1 inch left over for precaution should the knot slip. I had the drop weight set at 57#s. Racquet Tune said it was at 49.3#. The sound of the string bed sounded dead...or at least more dead than I expected. I haven't hit with Syn Gut for a while as I've been on multi and poly/multi set ups for some time. Hitting the heel of my palm also sent a weird sensation compared to my other racquets I had strung up by the local shop or other experienced stringers.

    About 9 hours later I checked racquet tune and it said it had dropped to 48.1#. I cut the extended string closer to the knot and took some pictures to send to my friend who lent me the stringer.

    He already told me to expect mistakes when stringing. Obviously knew of my incorrect string pattern to start but didn't notice I had missed one weave on the last cross string. It was on the home stretch and I was then stringing with one eye opened. :oops:

    I hit with it about 20 hours later. It took some getting used to playing with a lighter racquet and in a string bed that didn't bite as much as my main set up. The action and feel at the net made up for my dismay at the base line and service. It had that nice crisp feeling and sound.

    I played one set with it and then went back to my standard set up for the remainder of the night.

    Afterwards I told my play mates I had just strung this up and shared my embarrassment of missing weave. It was then the joke as to why I played so bad. I then compared my racquet head and noticed that it was wider than the other racquets. I guess the tension wasn't as tight as it should have been or the string was slipping within the clamps.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    My question to the stringers
    -how long do I let the drop weight stay active
    -do I reposition the drop weight should it drop when I remove the clamp (flying)
    -how tight should I set my flying clamps?
    -what type of string should I use for practice YET has decent play-ability for the price?
    -my friend might give/sell me the stringer but if he doesn't, should I look at upgrading to a crank? it's does cost more than I am ready to spend right now. Currently willing to spend about $300ish.

    Those are it for now. I'll keep adding my adventures. I have another racquet in my closet that I'll do laater today if I can pick up some cheap string to practice with. I want to save my nice strings for when I get better or take it to an experienced stringer.

    Cheers
     
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  2. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Wow long post but I read most of it. Why would you want to do a two piece 50/50 on a BB London? As far as to why your strings felt dead I am not sure but my guess is you over stretched the sting playing around with the youtube video you were watching trying to string the racket.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
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  3. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    It's against the rules to play with a missed weave Racquet. Not sure how much effect the last cross has on the actual play but if you were playing in a tournament or a USTA match and your opponents or an official spots the mis weave I think you can be disqualified. For casual play... who cares... cut it out and redo it... only cost you another ~$15 and some time...
     
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  4. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    thanks for your effort :)

    I went with the 50/50 as it seemed the easiest to understand (and it was the 1st pattern i found) and I like playing hybrids.

    Now you hear about pre-stretching.

    -What strings do you pre-stretch and how? Do you let the drop weight sit a bit longer?
     
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  5. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    It hadn't crossed my mind about the rules. I would also play with my other racquet that was done by an experienced stringer also for match play (casual play or tournament).

    $15 string job? I want to practice with something cheaper before I start trying out the pref strings. Any favorite economical strings you could recommend? I've hit with Gosen OG Sheep and will prob get some sets of those. I will consider some other similar priced sun guts.

    Thanks
     
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  6. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    Well the BHBR seems to be the gold standard in the "cheap good string" category.

    Tennis Warehouse had a sale on the Volkl Cyclone for a few weeks and while it's back to the regular $7.99 price, it's good value.

    I'm trying out the Leopard Plus Control 16 now ($6) and so far it's been fantastic. Good spin and control with a decent amount of power and comfortable too. I have a stringer as well so durability isn't a big concern (I cut the strings out to try something else before any appreciable tension loss). My USTA match racquet has Ashaway Dynamite soft 18 ($12) now...
     
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  7. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Nothing wrong with hybrids but I would not string the crosses from the center of the frame out like a 50/50 pattern does unless I was stringing a Prince racket with side O ports. The only string I pre stretch is gut. And the reason for that is to remove some of the memory or coiling so it is easier to handle. I hold one end with a starting clamp on a weight bench and pull the other with about 40 lbs pressure for about a minute.

    Holding a string on a drop weight for a long time really stretches a string and the longer you stretch it the farther the string is stretched resulting in a tighter string bed. Do that with poly at high tension and you will have some dead strings. I like poly strung at lower tensions.
     
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  8. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

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    ahh... watched your mr10sstringer video on 50:50 last weekend

    Earlier was just staring at the Air-O wondering how to start & if I can 1pc it :twisted:
     
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  9. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Not sure what you're referring to when you say Air-O. If you're talking about a Prince racket with O Ports on the side and a one piece 50/50 then no it will not work.

    EDIT: When stringing a racket with O ports (or Wilson rollers) there will be two strings in each port. The bottom string in the port must enter the port from the inside and the top string from the outside when stringing from top down and the opposite is true when stringing up the racket.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
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  10. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Make TT better, use the Ignore List!
    You can buy a reel of Forten nylon on TW for $17 which is about $1 a set.
     
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  11. colowhisper

    colowhisper Semi-Pro

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    A couple more practice rounds and you will be hooked! I bought a stringer recently and had some trials and tribulations too, mostly with knots. But after about five jobs it gets much easier and I feel a lot more confident now. As a matter of fact I dont trust anyone else to string my sticks now! You may get spoiled on the finer points of stringing, like pulling different tensions in the outer strings, or fast pulling gut and slow pulling poly on hybrid jobs etc. it's fun to experiment. If you want some really cheap practice string go to uatennis dot com.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
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  12. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

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    it's an orange & silver Prince stick labelled "Air-O Impact" landed on my bench
    Friday, can't find too much about it nor stringing pattern instructions

    Got some hybrid mix of staggered O-ports on side & none in bumper.
    Appears to be factory strung & not the neatest 2pc job...
     
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  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Is this it? Strange for a Prince but look where it is coming from. 16 mains skip 7&9 head and throat so the mains will end at the throat. Now comes the tricky part. Are there two tie off holes on each side at the bottom? If not string it one piece bottom up. You could probably do an ATW and go top down, but I would not.

    EDIT: Make sure you get the short side right before you tie it off, or you are going to have issues to deal with none of which are good. The side with the most regular grommets on the bottom is the long side.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
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  14. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    My guess is the mains tie off at 6T and the bottom cross at 8T. I would switch them though or put the softer string in 6T if you are doing a hybrid. That being the case string two piece top down. The reason for tying off the mains at 8T is so you don't have two strings blocking hole 7T which is the bottom cross. It also makes a neater string job on the bottom corners as you never have 3 strings running parallel.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
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  15. pvw_tf

    pvw_tf Rookie

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    for each string you do, the same amount of time.


    If the drop weight is going down when you remove the clamp you loose tension, which will happen with free clamps more easy than with fixed clamps. But as long as it is consistent over the whole job........

    As loose as possible. But the string should not slip in the clamps. (Very) tight clamps can damage strings. Slipping is not good also, some clamps will damage strings too.

    Peter
     
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  16. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    I have yet to hit with a Tourna string other than the BHB7 from the demo a few months back but will keep BHBR in mind.

    I have considered Cyclone as a next level up string from cheap synthetic strings. I was at the local shop today and they had a 660 reel of Volkl Classic Synthetic for $40.
     
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  17. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    I spent more time reading and watching some stringing tips. I'd like to learn more patterns. I did a 1 piece today on my nCode nTour 95. It took me about an hour to do and I didn't have as nearly as many hurdles as my 1st racquet. Also seemed to have done a more

    I dont' see myself stringing gut for a while till I learn how to string properly :)


    Just having started stringing, I'm not sure if I heard correctly. Isn't the L-Tec method something along the sort of letting the string getting stretched for a long period of time? Not that it matters to me now as I want to learn the basics of stringing before I try and altered/different technique.
     
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  18. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    I thought about nylon but decided to go with the volkl classic. Thanks.

    I think I am hooked. It's rewarding (all the mistakes taken with a grain of salt) like doing reloads of ammo or building a bicycle wheel. I saw that uatennis a bit late and picked up something already...
     
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  19. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    Should the weight drop after removing the flying clamp, would it be okay to lift the drop weight till it it level again?
     
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  20. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    1 hour is not bad for a new stringer especially with flying clamps and a drop weight

    Good idea but many other string could benefit from pre stretching to make them more manageable

    L-Tec is a brand of string promoted by the JET (John Elliot Technique) Method. The JET Method uses low tensions for poly string and long pull times especially on the crosses to overcome the friction on the mains and crosses. Longer constant pulling stretches the string more and even thou you have lower tension you get a stiffer string bed because of the longer. You also neve over stretch the string. But hitting a ball over stretches the string when you play so if it is that bad to over tension may you should not play with the racket either. The JET Method uses a system of proportional stringing which tension the outer (shorter strings at lower tensions except for tie off strings where the tension is raised. I don't think it does a lot of good but it could i guess. If you haven't tried maybe you should. But with a drop weight it could add a lot of confusion for someone learning.

    Not sure if it should but it does. If you lift the weight and level you are tensioning for a longer period of time like the JET Technique. Doing that will increase the string stretch and string bed stiffness without making any change in tension. When you hit the ball it is not the tension you feel on one string but the overall string bed stiffness.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
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  21. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    Irvin - high five!

    I forgot where I heard or read (or if I heard/read correctly) that one shouldn't do the crosses from the bottom. I thought back on the 2nd racquet I did and I did a one piece where it ended up with the crosses starting at the bottom. Should I have done an "around the world?"

    Did I hear/read correctly? Is this a concern?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
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  22. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    Not knowing how long I will be able to keep this string machine, I'm window shopping for stringers. I don't think I mind staying with a drop weight and see myself maybe spending around $400 or so. The fixed clamp stringers seem to look real appealing.

    Alpha Pioneer DC, Gamma X-6FC, Gamma Progression 602 FC (what's the difference between the two Gamma's?) have been on the radar for something new.

    I saw an Eagnas on 3bay that was used but was told that the parts aren't that great. Some Pro'sPro stuff also on 3bay but it's coming from over seas (UK). With international shipping, it's about the same as a similar model from Gamma or Alpha.
     
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  23. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You heard correctly some manufacturers do not want you to string a racket from the bottom up. I have heard when you string a racket the pressure moves in the direction you are stringing the crosses. Because the yoke is in the bottom of the racket the yoke makes the bottom of the racket stronger than the head of the racket. Some manufacturers allow the racket to be strung from the bottom but recommend it be strung from the top down.
     
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  24. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    There was a guy on here just yesterday wanting to sell an Alpha Revolution 4000. It is not a drop weight but a crank but could bein the ball park of what you're looking for.
     
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  25. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    So should I have done the around the world or a x2 piece with the Wilson?
     
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  26. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    If I could jump in, I've been told by folks "in the know" that you should always string a frame top down. There's nothing special in a Wilson or a Babolat that makes it better/stronger, top down is always preferred.
     
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  27. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Would prefer two piece and ATW would be my last choice
     
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  28. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    jump right on in!

    I'll be re-doing my London (will try x1 piece this time or a x2 piece non-50/50) and nTour 95 (x2 piece this time) again this week for more practice and hopefully a better string job.

    Why would an ATW be a last resort?
     
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  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    There are many different ATW patterns that you could use. Many of them cause blocked holes, hard weaves, difficult weaves, counting strings, short sections of frame supporting a transition for mains and / or crosses, uneven tensions on outside mains, and an extra long long side to weave through the mains to name a few.

    You see manufacturers that allow one piece or two piece string but I have not seen any that suggest using ATW patterns since Wilson did about 20-30 years ago.
     
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  30. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I don't find any of the problems Irvin suggested above. I used an ATW at a pro tournament a couple of weeks ago unless specifically asked for a two-string pattern.

    IME, an ATW is easy to do and doesn't require counting strings. if the frame has and odd number of crosses, the 1st cross and last cross should go over/under the same mains the same. If a frame has an even number of strings, the top cross and bottom cross should alternate; in other words, the bottom cross goes over, the top cross should go under the same main, etc.

    The way I do ATW is pretty simple. String the short side all but the last main. Tie the next to the last main off. On the long side, string the last main, it will end at the bottom, tension and clamp. String the bottom cross, tension and clamp. String the outside main on the short side, tension and clamp.

    Using the above, determine how you should begin the top cross. String the remainder of crosses. I find tension on the outside mains to be consistent and the string bed is as good as a regular one-piece or two-piece.
     
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  31. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    rabbit when you get down to the next to the last cross how you you avoid a hard weave?
     
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  32. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    rabbit did you string any AeroPro Drives at that tournament? If you did where do you tie off with that pattern you suggested. I didn't even mention that issue.
     
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  33. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    rabbit when you string most of the Babolat rackets you only skip 8 H and T. How do you go from the outside main in 9T to the bottom cross in 8T to the other outside main in 9T to the top cross in 8H from 9H without having a short section of frame supporting those three transitions?
     
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  34. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    rabbit when you have the bottom cross ran in it will be hold half the mains up and hald down. When weaving one ahead it is easier because you are weaving over the high and under the low unless for some reason half of them an always being pulled down anyway.
     
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  35. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Rabbit if you long side has to be longer so you can weave in all the crosses and an extra main how is it you don't hacpve a longer section of string to weave through the mains. if you use one end of a two piece to weave the top three crosses and the remainder of the string the remaining crosses doesn't it stand to reason you are weaving less string thought the mains.

    Need I go on? Forget it you just make up what you want.
     
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  36. pvw_tf

    pvw_tf Rookie

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    Long time ago I did string on a drop weight machine, and had to use flying clamps. Most likely I did adjust again if the drop weight was to down. But in timely matter.
    There is somewhere on this forum a posting about calculation how much you loose if the drop weight is not vertical.

    With a drop weight you can do 3 in a hour. But it is a lot harder when you have to go to 30 kg.


    Peter
     
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  37. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    No, by all means continue this is funny stuff!

    I stand by my post regarding ATW. You can cite exceptions all you want and pick fly **** out of pepper. Fact is, the racquet in question isn't a Babolat and the pattern I cited will work perfectly for that frame.
     
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  38. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    The problems are still there. Fact is the OP is using a drop weight with flying clamps. Do you think he is going to figure out how to hold tension on the top and bottom crosses with nothing to clamp them to. Not to mention the fact that he likes playing hybrids.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
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  39. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Problems only for you it appears. All your "objections" are so contrived as to be funny. Fact is, millions of stringers use the ATW with none of your "objections". Fact is, the ATW is a solid, proven method of stringing a racquet whose mains end at the throat. Fact is, the ATW is approved by manufacturers to string in lieu of two-piece.

    And there is nothing stopping the OP from stringing 3 crosses at the bottom to hold tension if he is using a drop weight. He does have to string crosses at some point, yes? He will face the daunting task of holding tension on the crosses regardless, yes?

    Take a Valium, dude, seriously. Why do you have to be the authority? If millions of stringers, far better than you or I, use the ATW and recommend it, can you consider the possibility that you may be wrong? I know it's tough, just give it some thought.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
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  40. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Why do I have to be the authority? LOL Evidently that is just the perception in your mind, I don't consider myself to be the authority. I have just tried to help out some new stringers by making some videos to help explain how to string. I was directly asked why I did not like ATW and I answered. If you are looking for a racket stringing authority maybe you should go to the USRSA for some insight.

    http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2013/04/18_racquet_stringing_is_two_be.html

    EDIT:
    For the record I didn't say one should not use ATW patterns. I stated what I don't like about using the various patterns when asked a direct question. And yes there are several ATW patterns because there is no one ATW that will work on every racket so you have to know when it will and will not work. For a beginning stringer finding out the hard way when you're almost done stringing the racket is frustrating. If you have something constructive to add please do, all you negative comments isn't helping anyone but me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
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  41. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Now Irvin, quit making stuff up.

    I was very constructive in explaining how to do an ATW for the racquet in question. I explained very clearly that you do not have to count strings, etc. The simple fact that you and I disagree on more than this leads you to call me negative which is just not true.
     
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  42. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Now you are accusing me of making stuff up. ROTFLOL Let's see who is just making stuff up. You were (by the way) very constructive in describing a very good method of stringing a racket using the your preferred ATW pattern. But did you or did you not say:

    Did you string any Babolat rackets that skip 8H and 8T at that tournament? If so then you went on the long side from 9T to 8T, on the short side 8T to 9T, and also on the short side from 9H to 8H assuming you used the pattern you suggested. I said one of the reasons I don't like ATW was because there are short sections of frame supporting transitions from mains to crosses and vice versa.

    When using your suggested ATW pattern do you not end up with a hard weave on EVERY RACKET YOU STRING using that method? I said I did not like ATW patterns because of hard weaves.

    When using your suggested ATW pattern do you not have to weave all your crosses and one main with the long side? Won't that require an longer string being pulled through the bottom and top crosses at the very least? I said I did not like the ATW patterns because it requires an extra long weave through the crosses.

    You said:
    But aren't their exceptions? You did not mention any exceptions like I did for the APD.
     
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  43. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    I'm a fan of using an ATW pattern as well when the mains end at the throat. There are advantages to doing either 2 piece or ATW, but I still prefer ATW. Mainly because I think the advantages of 2 piece stringing are easily overcome by being careful and just paying attention. However the advantages of ATW are not readily overcome by doing a 2 piece string job. Of course, due to all the hybrids we do these days, 2 piece is my only option.
     
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  44. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    I did my London in a 1 piece. The first time I strung up a racquet was this London and I noticed that the head shape was more round than oval like my other racquets. This time being a x1 piece vs a x2 piece both 50/50 patterns, the head shape was more oval. It took me about an hour again. Will hit with it tonight after it has sat about 2 days since being strung.

    I also did my Wilson x2 piece. I used a fishermans knot (think that's what it was called) for my starting knot of the cross. I will probably try a dead man's knot next time on my starter. Will probably hit with it tonight as well.
     
    #44
  45. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
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    40 feet for a pack of string, so I've taken the same amount from the reel. I have about 5 feet or more of string left over. I know you need to have that extra length for varying racquet patterns and designs but I want to get things dialed in for such so I can get the most out of my reel.

    Would string length needed for use change should I do a different pattern (x1/x2/atw/etc)? I am leaning towards no.

    I will start keeping a journal prob documenting such things
    -racquet & pattern
    -x1/x2 piece
    -tension
    -length cut to string
    -length left over
    -knots
    -prestretched
    -type of string
    -incidents/problems
    -racquet tune

    Any thing else you think I should add?
     
    #45
  46. Dags

    Dags Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    952
    With 1-piece you can get away with a foot or two less than 2-piece. The reason for this is that every end of the string has to have enough extra length to reach the tension head. Two tie-offs therefore require less string than four.

    With time, you'll find the right balance between not cutting too much and wasting string, and not cutting enough and wasting almost half a set. After you do that the first time, you decide it's not so bad to leave yourself a little extra.

    It's worth noting that different types of string require different lengths in the same racquet. A typical poly does not stretch as much as a syn gut or multi, so you need a little more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
    #46
  47. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
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    12,298
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    Marietta, Ga
    I would not go so much by how the racket looks whether it looks rounder or oval. Go by actual measurements. If you measure the unstrung racket length let's say it is 27". When you mount the frame it should also be 27" and when you finish stringing and take it off the stringer it should still be 27". You may want to give the Tension Advisor a try. I doubt it matters if you string one piece or two piece but varying the tension on the crosses seems to have some merit. Worth a try anyway.

    By the way 1 hour on a drop weight with flying clamps for a beginner is a very good time don't worry any about that.
     
    #47
  48. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

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    I took a quick look at the "tension Advisor" and will read into it more...thank you.
     
    #48
  49. djNEiGht

    djNEiGht Professional

    Joined:
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    how accurate could I expect the drop weight to be? I know that the string get's tensioned a couple times till the drop weight is level so I guess that some stretching could occur.

    ---Should I get this calibrated or is it pretty spot on and improved technique will help with my stringing?

    ---I want to start venturing into some poly's and multi strings. Any thing weird to expect coming from the Classic Syn Gut I've been practicing on?

    I hope to get a bit more comfy and string up a couple nice hybrids for a doubles tourney at the end of May.

    Have a good weekend everyone!
     
    #49
  50. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
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    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    Any tension mechanism is only as good as the clamps that hold it. :)

    Poly on a drop weight is backwards from syngut. It is easier to lift the arm rather than go down.
     
    #50

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