Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Agassifan, Dec 28, 2012.
Re: The bolded part: Agassifan meant that Djokovic ruined Nadal's chance at "GOAThood" not his own.
Nadal's goathood is already established thanks to clay and I don't think there is anything Djoko (or anyone else) can do about that. As for USO 2011, we cannot know for a fact that Rafa would have won the final vs Fed. We can assume he would have (based on past results) but we cannot categorically decide that Fed had 0 chance to win (especially at USO).
Is that a response to me or just a general opinion? Because for the record I agree that Nadal's goathood is well established and nothing will take it away at this point. I was just clarifying what Agassifan said for someone else.
We agree then , great.
Watch 48 minutes of a love fest for Borg? Like THAT will ever happen! Greatest Sports Champions? Is that a joke? You wanna know what quality great sports champions share? They bounce back from adversity: Jordan took his lumps from and had to learn to beat the Pistons, Celtics before overcoming a title laden Lakers team, and was able to reel off 6 championships in as many finals. The Red Sox overcame a 3-0 deficit in a best of 7 series-first and ONLY time that's been done in baseball-not to mention 86 years of bad history in general and against the Yankees, the team that was up 3-0 against them, in particular, to win that ALCS, the Series and another World Series just a few years later. Ali not only avenged two losses twice over to Frazier and Norton, respectively, he faced two fighters who were both considered to be invincible, TEN YEARS APART, NO LESS, Liston and Foreman, and beat both of them decisively. Now, contrast all of that with Borg, who, like I said, ran home to momma and quit like a little ***** the moment things got tough-not to mention is virtually the only one of the top Slam winners in the modern era to never win the US Open, which I consider the greatest Slam of all. And, we are to believe that he didn't retire because McEnroe kicked his ass and took away his top ranking, why? Because BORG himself told us so(and, like I said, I'm not watching 48 minutes of crap, why don't you tell us where exactly he said that)????? Well, THANK for clearing THAT up!:grin:
Well at least you are still around. I do enjoy your masterful artwork.
He destroyed Federer once at RG, 4 sets isn't destroying in most cases and the finals in 2006 and 2011 certainly weren't destructions.
Also I would say overall Nadal is a better clay player but I don't think it's by as much as people think. Borg only lost twice at RG and to one person, one of these losses was his first time at RG at an age when Nadal hadn't played RG yet (Borg was born almost exactly 30 years before Nadal down to the month) Borg lost at his first RG when he was 17 and won the next year at 18. Nadal didn't enter til he was 19 (before anyone corrects me, I'm rounding up to his age at the end of RG since he usually has a birthday during the last days). So borg has an extra loss but if Nadal had entered in 2003 he probably would have lost, there was a fair chance he'd lose in 2004 too depending who he faced. Borg also played his last RG (and won his 6th) at age 25 in 1981, Nadal won his 6th RG in 2011 at the same age. He beat Borg's total at RG at an age when Borg had retired. No excuses, the numbers back Nadal but doesn't automatically mean Borg wasn't good enough to win 7. That we'll never know, but we should still respect Borg. He didn't fail, he just didn't try. Have to give Nadal the credit for trying where Borg didn't, but also respect that up until Borg retired he was matching Nadal for RG titles. I am sure if Nadal retires now or doesn't make it back to full health people will say "ah but he would have won more" etc.
Also worth noting that Borg overall as a player, won 11 slams by 25 whilst hardly playing the AO. Had he played it every year and carried on into his late 20s I think it's possible he'd have had 13-16 Slams, maybe more.
man you sound like those idiots who don't count some of Federer's slams :lol:
Clarky, it's 2013 now! :lol:
some good points. I do agree that it takes mental strength to come back and make a match when you're getting thrashed, and also people marvel at Nadal's physical ability like it's an achievement but treat Federer's ability to keep healthy as luck.
On clay yeah, but on grass Borg serve and volleyed more than any top player today. He was in a way more agressive than the whole tour is now.
That's fair of you Vero. based on the form of both players that year I think Nadal would have probably won in 2010, Federer would have had to play better. But who knows how that final would have gone down. In 2011 it's a tougher call as I thought Federer was playing pretty well, I usually give to edge to any match after 2008 to Nadal though.
Separate names with a comma.