Nadal and Federer helped make me what I am today

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by cronus, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. cronus

    cronus Professional

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    [​IMG]

    The past month will have brightened Djokovic's outlook for sure. By the end of February some critics were concerned about the Serb's form, and his lack of an ATP title was seen as a possible symptom of a lack of confidence and spark. However, an Indian Wells/Miami double has put Djokovic back at the centre of attention and he now looks capable of returning to the top of the ATP rankings.

    His rivalries with Federer and Nadal have been given a new lease of life this season. He won one of his two recent meetings with Federer, and extended his winning streak over Nadal to three matches by picking up the Miami title last week. Following his recent wins over the duo, Djokovic took time out to praise them both for the role they've played in motivating and inspiring him to become a better player.

    "I think that the big challenges I faced in my career had a good impact on me, they made me stronger," remarked the World No. 2. "In a sense, is thanks to Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal that I am what I am today. When I reached World No.3 and I won my first Grand Slam event in Australia in 2008, I had to fight a lot with my doubts and insecurities in the following years. I had to work on my mental approach to the game."

    "All the matches I played against those two guys, were really good for me, but I never managed to win them. Thanks to them I understood which aspects I had to work on in order to improve my game. I worked hard, and results have come over the past 2 years or so."

    "Obviously is not easy to play against such kind of tennis players in all the finals of the tournaments, but in order to be the best, you have to beat the best. You have to beat the best players in the world. That has to be your greatest challenge."

    Source : http://www.livetennis.com/category/...-helped-make-me-what-i-am-today-201404030011/
     
    #1
  2. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    Nole is both lucky and unlucky to be playing with the two of the greatest players of all time. No doubt it has pushed his game to new levels and over the past few years he's had epic victories over Fedal. On the other hand he has suffered crushing losses to both, and definitely lost some big matches and titles. In the end, I think the presence of Fedal will enhance his legacy more than if they didn't exist at all.
     
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  3. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Nole elevated his game and improved his mental strength to the really top level in the face of top 2 competition never seen before.

    It is for this reason , he should rank above all other 6-8 major holders.
     
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  4. wangs78

    wangs78 Hall of Fame

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    And similarly, Nadal owes a big part of who he is today to Federer. Federer however, owes no one, IMHO. He set a bar that no one had seen before, not since Laver, anyway. What Nadal and then Djokovic have done is match that bar - but Fed is the one who set the standard.
     
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  5. zam88

    zam88 Professional

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    You have to figure in the absence of Fedal that Djoker probably has 12 majors and is starting to close in on Pete
     
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  6. cronus

    cronus Professional

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    amen brother.
     
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  7. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

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    So downright humble of Nole.

    Great guy.
     
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  8. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Very interesting. Note that he does not say: in order to be the best, you need to have the #1 ranking for 5000 weeks, make 645 consecutive semifinals, beat Alejandro Falla 103 times in a row, etc. You have to beat the best. This is the way, IMO, to look at the Fed-Nadal GOAT issue.
     
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  9. Fed_Djoker_Fan

    Fed_Djoker_Fan Banned

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    Federer owes it to the weak era. He is motivated because with lit bot hard work work there are slams for cherry picking. If he faced the challenges like Rafa or Nole faced, being the mental midget he would have folded his career without any slams and retired for a long time now.
     
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  10. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

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    oh yes definitely that was a weak era... compared to the era of today where a 36 year old Haas is still in top 20.
     
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  11. Fed_Djoker_Fan

    Fed_Djoker_Fan Banned

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    You are right. Bhagdatis, philipoussis, roddick, hewitt and 50 year old Agassi makes it the strongest era.
     
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  12. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    But not winning slams. The only ones winning slams are Nadal, Djokovic and Murray.
     
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  13. clayqueen

    clayqueen Hall of Fame

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    Fed has done nothing for Nadal. Nadal beat him when he was 17 for the first time and has always owned Fed.
     
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  14. ledwix

    ledwix Hall of Fame

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    This is the lamest statement. Nadal was #2 for a record amount of time. Who was he chasing during those years? I guess nobody. Athletes don't try to get better than their competition or anything. Nadal was already the best, even in 2004 right.

    Further, there is the slam record. Nadal wants it, and Federer is trying to defend it. They motivate each other.
     
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  15. Fed_Djoker_Fan

    Fed_Djoker_Fan Banned

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    Right. So how many times did Federer beat Nadal in slams while Nadal was no2?
    Thats right the overall record is 9-2. I would bet Nadal leads the h2h in slams right from day 1.

    He was never struggling to overcome Federer. Just natural evolution and took some time like EVERYONE else to master all court types.
     
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  16. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    He'd be less talented but have more titles if they didn't exist. Wrap your brain around it.
     
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  17. mike danny

    mike danny Hall of Fame

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    2012 shows otherwise
     
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  18. mike danny

    mike danny Hall of Fame

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    He got the better of Fed when they played one vs one.

    But in terms of records Federer still owns Rafa by a fair margin
     
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  19. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    No Nadal tho
     
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  20. edberg volleys

    edberg volleys Professional

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    If I may ask you, what do you think, is Nadal better HC-player than Fed career-wise?
     
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  21. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    These Federer fanatics will always be in denial tho, as you should know :twisted:
     
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  22. Chanwan

    Chanwan Legend

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    don't feed the troll
     
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  23. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    While it is an agreed upon notion that 'Federer is Tennis and Tennis means Federer', it does not mean that beating Federer alone is sufficient.

    As we have seen, Nadal realized he had to elevate his game and be consistent in beating ALL top players, if he has to be in the top echelons and took a leaf out of Federer. To his credit, he was successful.

    And for that, he remains thankful.
     
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  24. mike danny

    mike danny Hall of Fame

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    So it wasn't Nadal who played 6 hours at the AO, wasn't nadal whom Fed beat on his way to his 4th IW title, wasn't nadal who had one of his best clay seasons, wasn;t Nadal who got beat by no.100 in the world.

    Nadal was there for half a year when Fed was gathering points. And was in the draw at W when Fed won it but lost early.

    Nadal was there. Deal with it
     
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  25. mike danny

    mike danny Hall of Fame

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    Federer is so above Nadal in achievements, it's not even debatable
     
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  26. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    Wimbledon. We all know Nadal would have manhandled Federer if he got to him in the other slams, no matter how bad his form was. Fed is completely powerless against Nadal nowadays. Fact is, Fed is a mental midget when a better player or someone playing better than him shows up.
     
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  27. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Nadal was in a unique situation where he dominated the world #1 more than the rest of the tour. Very weird scenario that allowed Fed to remain No. 1 far longer than he deserved to.
     
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  28. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Why is there always this notion that there was "no Nadal" in 2012?

    The ascension to #1 doesn't mean that Federer HAS to go through Nadal individually at each tournament.

    Federer won Basel, Paris, WTF (clobbered Nadal), SF's in AO (lost to Nadal here), then won Rotterdam, Dubai, IW (beat Nadal), Madrid, and Wimbledon with solid results in between bar a 3rd round loss to Roddick in Miami. Nadal was not injured until after Wimbledon, following which Federer returned to #1. So tell me again how was there no Nadal?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
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  29. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Define being "so above".
     
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  30. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I believe you're deliberately missing the point.
     
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  31. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    4 slams is "so above" for starters.
     
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  32. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    Please explain 10-23.

    My point is Fed is a mental midget for the most part when it's down to the wire against superior players. Basically he needs to completely overpower his opponent to win. 2012 was an impressive year, yes, but everyone knew he had a huge opportunity in Wimbledon when Nadal got knocked out early. Then he had the luxury of playing Zombievac in the semi (shell-shocked after RG, though I still consider this a legit win over the world no. 1) and then-slam virgin Murray in the final. The most impressive Fed win in that tournament (imo) was against Benneteau, when he literally fought back from the brink. But that's a case when Fed was able to feed off the fact that he was a much better player than Benneteau, and so he didn't fold like he would against Nadal or an in-form Djokovic.
     
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  33. mike danny

    mike danny Hall of Fame

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    Then he should have defeated the no.100 in the world in the first place, right?

    You can' gift Nadal titles like that. On grass there is no guarantee Nadal wins vs Federer. He barely beat him when he was in his best form ever
     
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  34. mike danny

    mike danny Hall of Fame

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    First of all is a 30-year old supposed to beat a world no.1 in his prime the way Federer did? Is he supposed to beat 2 top 4 players in their prime at 30?

    Nadal has never won a slam outside of his precious clay when having to beat 2 top 4 players back to back. And you are talking about Federer getting lucky?
     
    #34
  35. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I don't need to explain it. Your point is useless because Federer had the best run of form over the field to get back to #1. H2H vs one player is not the most important statistic in this instance. I think you know that. You're just being deliberately hard to get along with.
     
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  36. mike danny

    mike danny Hall of Fame

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    Federer defeats in-form Djokovic at FO 2011. He came back from 4-5 down in the 4th an stopped Djoko from forcing a decider. Mental midget? try again. He did something Nadal could not do all year.

    Try again next time
     
    #36
  37. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    True, but the question still remains what would have happened if he had met Nadal in Wimby that year.

    Not gifting the title to Nadal, I think he would have lost to Djokovic or Murray in Wimbledon that year. But regarding Federer against Nadal, the mental scars are too great at this point for Fed to ever pull off a slam win against him again. Believe me, though I like Nadal more, I've been rooting for Fed to pull through against Nadal at least once for years only to be sorely disappointed each time. Their last AO meeting sealed the deal for me that Fed is done beating Nadal in slams. Somebody like Sampras or Nadal would never allow himself to be owned by another player like that.
     
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  38. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    Federer was by far the better player for that match. I'm not saying he doesn't have the talent (he's clearly the most talented player ever), but he doesn't have the resolve when he's against the ropes. He was 2 sets to 1 up in that match against a tight Djokovic and in possibly the best clay form of his life. Just look what happened after Fed blew set point against Nadal in the final. I think he lost something like 8 straight games?

    When Nadal is outmatched like in AO 2012, he still fights it out, most of the time winning like RG 2012 (third and fourth set), RG 2013 (fifth set), USO 2013 (second and third set). Nadal is not afraid to step up and seize control of his own destiny, Fed is content to fold when the pressure gets too great (see AO 2009 final set).
     
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  39. edberg volleys

    edberg volleys Professional

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    Eeeeeeeeeeeh :lol:.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
    #39
  40. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    We know Nadal owns Federer and that he probably beats him IF they play at Wimbledon (although that is rather debatable as well since the roof closed in both the SF and F). The operative word is if of course. Hypothetical matches that never happen don't really matter.

    Not to mention the same applies to Nadal when he plays Djokovic. He had a huge opportunity this year in Australia, and everybody knew it after Djokovic went out, but he still couldn't capitalize.
     
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  41. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    I think that Fed-worshippers know, but don't want to acknowledge that their oh-so-perfect faultless idol has some glaring flaws and weaknesses, mental strength in adverse situations being one of them. There is no way to explain 10-23 for a player of Fed's caliber other than he suffers a massive mental block against a certain player, something someone with GOAT-worthy mental strength should be able to overcome. Unless you're willing to admit that Nadal is, in fact, a better player than Federer.

    I am not being "deliberately hard to get along with" (as if I would care about this on an internet forum), I'm simply presenting evidence for what I see as a fact vehemently denied by many Fed fans, than Fed loses close big matches more often than not. I'm sure you can recall even better than I how many important matches he's blown over the years from a winning position.
     
    #41
  42. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    None of this really makes sense. How does the man get up 2 sets to 1 then in the first place. Oh right, because he's "talented, but not mentally tough" even though he won a back and forth 1st set that culminated in a TB. Then in 2011-2012 proceeded to beat Nadal twice in his run back to #1.

    The rest of this is garbage as well. I could just as easily say Nadal choked the 2012 AO final by missing that easy BH at 4-2 30-15 in the 5th set. RG 2012 he was the favourite anyway under normal conditions. RG 2013 Nadal should've finished in 4 and Djokovic ran into the net in the 5th. I'm only giving you USO 2013.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
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  43. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Sure, and that's all fine. Problem is the H2H has basically no point in what we're discussing. Makes very little if any sense to bring it up at all.
     
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  44. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    Watch the match again and you'll see Djokovic wasn't playing in his usual form. Part of it was probably because he was out of rhythm thanks to the Fognini walkover. I distinctly remember the ESPN commentators making that observation. Fed is a good front-runner, but another more crucial aspect of mental toughness comes from being able to seize big moments and win even from a losing position. As I think we all know, this is one ability which Fed lacks. Basically, in a slam if he loses the first set to either of Nadal or Djoker it's game over, and even if he goes up early he more often than not loses the whole match.

    Nadal eventually choked in AO '2012, sure. My point is that's an example of Nadal being able to fight back when he's getting completely crushed earlier in the match. But I guess Fed has demonstrated he's been able to do this once, namely Wimbledon 2008. RG 2013 he choked but still won, something Fed would never be able to do.
     
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  45. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    H2H is in fact relevant to the discussion of Fed's ability to overcome tough competition: it shows Fed really is unable to beat his rival for the great majority of the time and most likely has some kind of complex, not evidence of GOAT-worthy mental strength.

    If you mean relevance with the thread, then you're right this has nothing to do with Djokovic. Tracing back this back to page 1, I see that I took Fed_Djoker_Fan's troll bait and got off topic. Well done FDF, 8/10.
     
    #45
  46. Fed_Djoker_Fan

    Fed_Djoker_Fan Banned

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    What are you smoking ? What's the topic here? Read the op again.
    Question is how much rafa owes his success to Federer ? Zero. Infact, Federer spoiled Rafa by being his biacth from day 1.
     
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  47. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Phony Fakedal thinks otherwise. He thinks sexi Rogi is the best that is there and everyone is trying to follow the footsteps.
     
    #47
  48. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

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    He'd have the same amount of TALENT. He just wouldn't have had to work as hard to squeeze everything out of his talent.
     
    #48
  49. xan

    xan Professional

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    Federer
    nadal
    fed
    nadal, nadal, fed
    federer
    federer
    h2h
    mental
    nadal
    nadal
    fed
    goat, goat
    nadal
    federer.

    Abso****inglutely unbelivable. And it doesnt even matter its off topic, crazy *** fanatics MAKE it be the topic. Insane.
     
    #49
  50. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    By the same token was Lendl a better player than Sampras? What about Agassi?

    You ultimately can't really compare players by any metrics until they are retired. Currently Federer is miles ahead of Nadal in most longstanding important metrics by which tennis players have been measured for over 40 years. But, he has more time left in his career than Federer so has a chance to overtake him.

    Until then there is no credible argument which doesn't also come with a heavy dose of partisan hack factor to demonstrate that Nadal is a better player than Federer.
     
    #50

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