Nadal - Djokovic Rivalry Can Give Federer an Opening

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by OddJack, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,602
    Location:
    South
    During the Miami final one of the commentators said something I never thought I would ever hear: "... maybe Nadal needs to shorten the rallies..."

    At the height of their great rivalry, to be honest, Rodge never pushed him around so much as the king of clay would need to bend down and catch his breath. Actually, I had seen him do so only once before, at USO semifinal against Murray.

    Djoker defensive skills combined with Nadal's high margin counter punching produces some of the longest rallies in today's game. Nadal has not been able to penetrate Djoker's BH with his top spin. Actually, if you watched Miami final you would notice that it was Djoker who pummeled Nadal's BH and forced many unforced errors, usually a weak slice by Nadal that dropped in the net.

    Djoker is no dummy on clay either. Remember Madrid 2009?

    I believe Djoker's withdrawal from MC is strategic and preventive. He has no serious injuries, yet, but if these two new rivals keep clashing like they did at the last two tournaments this can give other players an opening later in this season.
    If it does, players such as Murray, Del Potro and even Sod better be ready.
     
    #1
  2. powerangle

    powerangle Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,245
    In some ways, yes, Djokovic is indirectly helping Fed out. By stopping Nadal from gaining more ranking points. And vice-versa.
     
    #2
  3. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    30,341
    Location:
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    By Joker taking more points away from Nadal, Federer still remains #3. What am i missing ?
     
    #3
  4. F-T-S

    F-T-S Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    301
    You just think it's that simple don't you.
     
    #4
  5. YodaKnowsBest

    YodaKnowsBest Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,668
    Location:
    Strong Era aka Novak-Novak era
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I think what the OP meant was that Djokovic and Nadal are both wearing each other out. Who ever wins this match will not be in physical condition to challange Federer just like in Madrid 2009.
     
    #5
  6. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,172
    Not to be childish here, but I don't think you force unforced errors. Errors are either forced or unforced, can't be both.
     
    #6
  7. CocaCola

    CocaCola Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,154
    If Djokovic and Nadal meet each other in Rome/Madrid and RG final then this what you're saying could happend at Wimbledon where Federer can steal the show.
     
    #7
  8. MethodTennis

    MethodTennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,617
    Djoker who pummeled Nadal's BH and forced many unforced errors

    sig worthy
     
    #8
  9. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,226
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    is it just me or when you force errors, they cannot be, by definition unforced?????
     
    #9
  10. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,602
    Location:
    South
    Yes, Gorecki and the other guy before, "forced" unforced errors does not make sense.

    However, many of the errors they call UE during a match could be considered Forced. There is no black and white distinction really.
     
    #10
  11. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,226
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    i understand what you meant. and i can agree with the notion behind your post!!!
     
    #11
  12. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,602
    Location:
    South
    Hey Djordje,,,that Novak is a genius isnt he?
     
    #12
  13. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,602
    Location:
    South
    Yeah, u kinda look like him too ... well he's kinda ugly, but you gotta be praud bro, dont ya?
     
    #13
  14. YodaKnowsBest

    YodaKnowsBest Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,668
    Location:
    Strong Era aka Novak-Novak era
    Like I said, the next generation will always surpass the previous one. Djordje, you are my proof.
     
    #14
  15. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2007
    Messages:
    9,238
    Location:
    Silvis, IL
    I know how to beat Federer too.

    I'm actually the greatest player of all time, but I didn't want to win every major ever played so I decided to retire early.

    But, for serious, i am the GOAT.
     
    #15
  16. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    30,341
    Location:
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    You actually want me to think before posting. :shock:
    True, but ideally that wearing out should be in the semi-final of the same tourney, not the previous sunday final. Federer will get beaten by Joker or Nadal in the semi each time. By the time Joke gets tired he;ll just tank or be absent like MC.
     
    #16
  17. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    30,341
    Location:
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    For the moment, let's not put "your brother" and "win" in the same sentence. Either he's got a knee injury or is tired, or scared of Rafa. Until he's back on court and winning, you should make yourself scarce.
     
    #17
  18. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    17,810
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Add Murray to the combo
     
    #18
  19. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    30,341
    Location:
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    my bother Roger know how to beet Nole. Rogi laughing at Dorggie.
     
    #19
  20. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,226
    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    My Brother Guillermo can beat federer too.

    Cheers,

    Pancho
     
    #20
  21. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,414
    by definition yes, but UEs are not objective, but counted by a person. and those persons tend to call a lot of errors that are forced unforced errors.

    Look how many UEs federer makes against a guy like wawrinka and compare it to his numbers against nadal.

    in practice the opponent has a huge influence on UE numbers.
     
    #21
  22. powerangle

    powerangle Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,245
    Notice I also said "and vice-versa". So Nadal and Djokovic stop each other from completely dominating and moving full steam ahead in the ranking points. If they divided up the points more equally between them, Federer has less of a gap in points to overcome. (ie...Federer has a better chance if both Nadal and Djokovic are at 9500 points, instead of one of them at like 12,000).

    Federer obviously also has to make a move himself and win something big and go deep in other tournaments, but he would have a smaller gap in points to have to overtake.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
    #22
  23. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    6,100
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    I want Rog to give himself an opening by stepping up his damn game. Improve the footwork, be more aggressive, cut the freaking unforced error count, and for godddddsaaaakes stay mentally focused for an entire freaking match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #23
  24. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    30,341
    Location:
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    I read that 2-3 times, but the meaning did not penetrate my skull, thickened by years of trolling. Yes, it's clear to even me now.
    I think.
     
    #24
  25. MagneticCurls

    MagneticCurls Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    219
    Disagree. Determining whether an error is forced or unforced can be quite subjective. Hence some errors will be officially recorded as 'UE', despite them having been for example due to a very effective strategic non put away purposeful shot by the opponent.
     
    #25
  26. MethodTennis

    MethodTennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,617
    oddjack hope you dont mind me making that comment my sig, it was just one of thsoe statements filled with win :mrgreen:
     
    #26
  27. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    30,341
    Location:
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Not to nitpick, but i think you can also have "unforced forced errors". Errors that are usually forced by your opponents, but in this case happened without even being forced.

    If you've ever seen a guy named ********, you'll know what i am saying ;)
     
    #27
  28. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,725
    Location:
    Tennisville
    ^^ i hope I'm around to catch a glimpse of Mistakeovic someday

    Or perhaps simply the Djoke
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
    #28
  29. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,725
    Location:
    Tennisville
    And what will Rafa become the day he starts missing? Missal?

    Or Rafail?
     
    #29
  30. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,602
    Location:
    South
    This is what I talked about my fellow experts. Nadal " has no obligation" to win a sixth title now, and feels "tired" and "lacks confidence" thanks to Djoko.

    If he goes out to the Sod, Rodge will have double motivation to take Novak out, and do JMc a favor as well.
     
    #30

Share This Page