Nadal enhances his legacy of greatness

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by McEnborg, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. McEnborg

    McEnborg Rookie

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    It's sad that Davis Cup does not get the respect it deserves on these boards. What McEnroe and Agassi did in their Davis Cup careers were part of their greatness. It doesn't show up in all time records or "Majors Won".

    But, Rafa came up with a gutsy, brilliant come from behind win against a guy who won a US Open only 2 years ago and is clearly a top 10 player in the world. He did under intense pressure as well.

    It's one thing to be labled as the greatest clay courter in history, which he unquestionably is. But, he KEEPS proving it again and again and again. Under huge pressure of his hometown fans and after such a long, draining season, RAFA comes up huge AGAIN!!!

    Top 10 players of last 60 years.

    1) Federer 2) Laver 3) Sampras 4) Rafa 5) Borg 6) Agassi 7) McEnroe 8) Connors 9) Lendl 10) Becker.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
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  2. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Give him 5 more years, and he'll climb upto number 1 on that list.
     
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  3. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Rafa is destined to win 21 Slams.

    ...



    ...
     
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  4. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Don't shout it out too loud because the Fed fans will get angry with us for saying the truth.
     
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  5. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    You obviously have no love for Wilander.
     
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  6. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    :lol: Del Potro has lost to just about every top 10 player this year. He's not even close to being at his best! He even lost to Ferrer in the first match here. Gutsy by Rafa? Not so much. I think the third set of the US Open final this year was gutsy by Rafa though. Too bad he had nothing left after it.
     
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  7. McEnborg

    McEnborg Rookie

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    "You obviously have no love for Wilander."

    Yes I do. But, he's NOT top ten. He did not have the brilliance of Andre on all surfaces, did not win as many titles or dominate nearly as long as Lendl or Connors and, even though he has one more slam than Boris, Becker won more titles in his career 49 to 33. Also, Wilander at his best was not nearly as good as Boris at his best. Plus, Boris got to SEVEN Wimbledon finals. He also had a better lifetime winning percentage by about 5%.

    So, there's no one Mats can go ahead of on that list. He's top 15 though, along with Edberg.
     
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  8. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Too true. Vamos Nadal...




    LOL
     
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  9. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    Wilander has slams on all three surfaces.

    How do you have Borg below Rafa? Borg dominated like nobody but Federer. The only reason he didn't have 19 slams when he retired at 26 is because he didn't bother play the Australian Open.

    It was a far more competitive era too. The US widely played tennis then (300 million people), not anymore. There are only 100 million in Russia and most of them are too poor to play tennis so they don't compensate for the loss in playing numbers at all. And Eastern Europeans Lendl, Navratilova) have always dominated.

    Wilander's career really ended in 1989, there's no point in looking at his winning percentage after that.
     
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  10. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    It's not all about the number of GS. Plus, that statistic is skewed against players like Rafa anyways.
     
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  11. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    roflmao!

    10lulz
     
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  12. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    True. If Nadal retires with 17 Roland Garros and 1 USO and 1 AO and 2 Wimby, that would be funny.
     
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  13. monfed

    monfed Guest


    No way is Nadal above Borg at this point. The guy has won only 2 wimbys ,Borg's won 5. Nadal has a LOT to prove outside of clay before he's placed ahead of Borg imo.

    I'd put Nadal alongside Agassi at this point even though Agassi has a much more balanced resume compared to Nadal.
     
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  14. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    Or will be retired, as he himself has suggested. Either way.
     
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  15. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    What happened to the shoulder injury and the lack of passion etc? Oh, so he WAS alright at the wtf then!
     
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  16. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    That rigmarole only applies off clay silly! :wink:
     
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  17. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Funny that some here always bring up these things when it comes to Rafa. And complain about how his fans make excuses for his loses... and yet, if one reads the thread of the match with del Potro, it's FULL of comments about him being tires, injured, etc...
     
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  18. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Can't you ever admit any faults about your God Rafael Nadal? It is not an illusion that he and his team bring up injury and illness issues either before a match or after a match. What difference does it make if other players use similar excuses from time to time? The point is Nadal does it too.
     
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  19. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Great prediction!
    Vamos Rafa !
     
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  20. 15_ounce

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    Rafa doesn't win Davis Cup by himself. It's not a personal achievement. It's team effort.
     
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  21. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    It's not a prediction.I have seen the future with nolstrdamus(source provider)..Vamos rafa..:)
     
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  22. dlk

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    One cup-clinching victory over 'a still not all the way back' JMDP does little to add to Nadal's legacy. This is clearly a livin' in the moment statement. Nadal needs slams to bolster his legacy. No one would care if he won 30 more DC victories, if he didn't win another slam.

    I guess I'm a part of the board who places less repsect toward Davis Cup victories; one would think they demonstrate more substance as players are playing for their countries, but they don't. Davis Cup is hard to measure, as players don't place it above their own ambitions/priorities. Slam victories are the ultimate measure of greatness.

    I do believe Nadal will pass Fed in Slams.
     
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  23. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Sorry,but not a chance in h*ll that happens. Nadal will be very,very fortunate to even win one more slam much less the 7 it will take to overcome Fed's slam count. There's a better chance of pigs flying than of that ever happening.
     
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  24. ThoughtCrime

    ThoughtCrime Rookie

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    Rafa 2.0 shall arise in 2012 and smite the nonbelievers with twice the RPM than ever thought possible. Onward to glory in 2012, CYGS and all masters without dropping a set. VAMOS RAFITO.

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Fate Archer

    Fate Archer Hall of Fame

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    I was in that thread sunday and any injury talk was hardly in it. Both guys were fine.

    Anyway, I think Rafito has a good chance of surpassing Borg and a smaller chance of getting to Sampras record. Federer is too far at this point and if he wins say, just one more slam Nadal has no chance IMO, specially with the advent of Djoker 2.0 and his rivals getting confident against him now.

    If Fed wins the AO in january this talk will be put to rest anyway.

    I predict Rafito ending up 4th behind Sampras in this list or if he really does well from now on, he will be above Sampras and behind Laver.
     
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  26. dlk

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    Nadal will win 2-3 this year. If so, will you entertain this possibility?
     
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  27. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    I can't even begin to entertain the notion that he will win 2-3 slams next year. He won't win 1 much less multiple slams. He'll be fortunate to catch Borg at this point.
     
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  28. dlk

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    Why do you feel the way you do? If not him, who?
     
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  29. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Did you see the mess he made of this year? How awful he was throughout the slams and how pathetically he lost all of those finals? There is way more evidence that supports that he will not win another slam than that he will win more of them.

    As for who will win the slams next year is easy. Possum will probably win them all,but he might leave someone a crumb and only win 3. Murray,Delpo,or Fed will win the lone slam that Cvac doesn't gobble up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
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  30. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    There are a few problems for Nadal. First off, he now has TWO big rivals, not just one. A while back, it was only Federer standing in his way. Now there is Federer AND Djokovic standing in his way. Both have 20 Grand Slams between them and as history has shown, Nadal has not managed to beat Federer easily on grass and hardcourts. All non-clay Slam matches between them were extremely taxing and mentally exhausting. So if the possibility is there that Federer is drawn to meet Nadal in the semifinals at the AO and the USO, they again may beat each other up to the very end with the winner having little to nothing left when they have to face Novak Djokovic in the final. That's presuming Djokovic is in the final. The odds say Djokovic will be in the final though as most who face him are significant underdogs.

    The other problem Nadal has is or are the threats prior to the semifinals which he may face. We know that he will likely have to face 2 of the top 4 ranked players in the world in the semifinals and final. His weakest surface is hardcourt. His best surface is clay. Two slams are on hardcourts and most players play well on hardcourts.

    So that means not only will Nadal have to play back to back matches against any of Federer, Murray or Djokovic (all 3 of them have beaten Nadal more than once in Grand Slams) but Nadal will also have to worry about the potential threat of players in the QF who have given him tremendous trouble on hardcourts including Tsonga and Ferrer who have both finished in the top 8 this year and seem to be carrying great confidence and form into 2012. And again, both Tsonga and Ferrer have demolished Nadal in Slams. Ferrer did it twice.

    So for Nadal to win the AO, he would quite possibly have to go through a very tough QF opponent which could be Tsonga, Ferrer, Berdych, Tipsarevic, etc. And then he would have to go through a Federer or Murray in the SF and then he would have to go through his most difficult challenge to date in Djokovic. If not that scenario, he would have to go through a Murray in the SF and then a potential showdown with Federer or Djokovic. Either way, the odds say it will not be easy no matter how you cut it. Again, all of them have beaten Nadal in Slams.

    Really...it's impossible to tell anything.
     
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  31. dlk

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    Yes, It's quite exciting. This year should clear up so many questions and be very exciting. Can Nadal return back to the top? Does Djoko continue to demonsrtate he is beyond more than one great year, and is ready for the top ten level greats? Will any other with the talent surprise and breakthru (JMDP, Tsonga, Murray, or any of the very young hopefuls.

    I quick glance and see Nadal with 2 & DJoko with 2 for the year.
     
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  32. 15_ounce

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    #32
  33. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    Davis Cup appears to be equal to the slams now, given that Djokovic, Federer and Nadal all played it this year. And given that the crowds I've seen are louder than those at the slams. Clearly it is very close to people's hearts.
     
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  34. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Most was about del Potro being tired.
     
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  35. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Davis Cup is not even close to the prestige of a slam. Plus Federer just played the DC this year to be eligible for the Olympics in 2012. Not sure if the same scenario applies to Djokovic and Nadal.
     
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  36. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    #36
  37. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

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  38. Fate Archer

    Fate Archer Hall of Fame

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    Agreed on all accounts. Ferrer is not getting an inch of the credit he deserves for Spain's Davis Cup win. He was definitely the best DC player of the year, as well as the most important one during the final for the reasons above stated.
     
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  39. ManFed

    ManFed Rookie

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    Rafa will only be remembered as the player who won because the courts that supposed to be fast turned slower and high bouncing every year resembling clay courts, which his game suits for. His fans will not be able to claim that he could win in all kind of surfaces with different speeds and bouncing features as Federer fans can do.

    For instance, Roger is the only player who can claim that was victorious in all grand slams and all kind of tournaments in very different courts and with different styles. Roger won Wimbledon 2003 serving & volleying and then won in the slower Wimby Courts. Roger won Australia before the courts became high bouncing and then won in slower Australia 2010. Roger won US Open prior became slower in 2010. Roger won Roland Garros and fast clay in Madrid, and mostly, he won Tour Finals in Houston, Shanghai and London and a lot of Indoor fast courts.

    Sorry, but Rafa fans cannot say he can win in fast surfaces, on the contrary any Fed fan can claim Roger can win in every surface, that is the difference, Federer didn’t need a court suited his game, he adapted, that is TALENT.
     
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  40. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, you got it right.
     
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  41. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    What pure crap this whole post is. You get a big :roll: from me for having posted it.
     
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  42. CDestroyer

    CDestroyer Professional

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    Right! Federer didn't need indoor courts to win a couple of tournaments this year. He won because of talents on all surfaces and speeds. You really know your stuff. Keep it up.
     
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  43. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    The changes in balls and surfaces (to slow down the game) occurred before Federer won anything big.

    Every big tournament that Federer has won has been inside this "slow Era".
     
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  44. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    The courts were slowed way back in 2001. That is the only way Federer could win and explains Pete and others exit. They were forced out to a degree.

    Federer is a baseliner and does extremely well if not better on the slower surfaces, ****s will just have to accept this fact.



     
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  45. ManFed

    ManFed Rookie

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    AO open surface was changed in 2008, Federer won prior and after that change happen. Wimby surface change was gradually, started in 2001 but with its main current features until 2005. 2001 to 2003 the surface still was pretty much low bouncing, not like 90's, but definitely faster than 2006-2011. Carpet surface dissapaeard.

    I was not saying Fed doesn't suit slow courts, I said Fed can play and win in any surface with different features. He won in High bouncing and low bouncing hard courts indoor and outdoor. He won in clay, he won in fast and slow grass. Nobody can deny that fact. He is more talented than anybody.

    Nadal can't win in surfaces which doesn't suit his game. (WTF at London)
     
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  46. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    Which is irrelevant because Djokovic is going to win at least 47.
     
    #46
  47. ManFed

    ManFed Rookie

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    Ivanisevic won in 2001, he was a S&V player who play the final against Rafter another S&V. SF were played by Henman, Ivanisevic, Rafter and Aggasi. 3 S&V and 1 aggresive baseliner.

    2002 SF were played by Hewith, Henman, Malisse and Nabaldian. 1 S&V, 2 aggresive baseliners and 1 pusher. First time a pusher won Wimby, perhaps.

    2003 SF were played by Roddick, Federer, Grosejean and Phillipousis. All aggresive players. Fed, Rod and Phillipousis S&V in almost all First Serves and Grosjean was pretty much all court player.

    Federer's game suits better on Fast courts, the proof is that he still win in indoors past his prime with 30 years old, and he can not do it anymore in slower courts. But when he was in his prime, he could win in any court, any surface, he adapted because he has more TALENT than anybody.

    Regards.
     
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  48. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Don't listen to them, man. They will get you. Wherever you are, they will find you. They will wait for you forever, they never tire or deplete. They multiply very fast and survive under the most hostile conditions. You cannot win against them.
     
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  49. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Eh ? What are you babbling about this time? Fed didn't win Wimbledon in 2001 and players didn't really complain about slow courts at Wimbledon until next year (Henman for one was very vocal in 2002, calling it the slowest court he played on the whole year).

    As for Sampras exiting early in 2002, Fed also lost that year in the first round(in straights to Ancic).

    As for what "others" are you talking about(or even what year) is a bit of a mystery. You do realize 2001 W final featured Ivanisevic and Rafter? I don't have to explain their playing style to you I hope? Hint-they're not baseliners, hopefully you can figure out the rest on your own.

    Regarding the only way Fed could win etc. Fed's problem at the time was his mental strength and fitness not surfaces/conditions, adaptability to different conditions was never Fed's weak point.

    Fed is mostly a baseliner indeed, however in his first Wimbledon win he served and volleyed more than Nadal did/will in his entire career, he also reached QF in Wimbledon playing S&V and won his first ever title on carpet. Not to mention that he's also the only one out of the top 5 today to complain about slowing down of the surfaces, coincidence?

    Now your speculation about the surface preferance of Federer is hardly some fact so I'm afraid "****s" won't have to accept anything of a sort.
     
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  50. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    Actually, Nadal will be known as the only man since 1969 to win Roland Garros, Wimbledon and US Open in the same calendar year. And the ONLY man EVER to win those 3 slams on 3 different surfaces in a calendar year. Like it or not, there is a greater difference between grass-clay-hardcourt than any other combination of slams in the year, regardless of the era.

    And the 2nd youngest man to win the career grand slam. This despite having to play "the goat" in nearly all his slam titles.
     
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