Nadal insists tennis is doping free

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by aphex, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    #1
  2. Naive, i wonder if he really believes in this himself?
     
    #2
  3. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

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    Nadal is just trying to convince fans that he doesn't take illegal substances.
     
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  4. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Clearly.

    99% of what he says is just drawing attention away from his notorious steroid abuse.
     
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  5. T1000

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    guilty conscience
     
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  6. Matt H.

    Matt H. Professional

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    A good % of professional athletes take performance enhancing substances. You’re naïve if you think otherwise.

    Tennis is no different. Especially with the fact that PERFORMANCE is what puts dinner on the table. There’s no contract or guaranteed money. They bust their butts for 11 months in the calendar year and fly to at least 4 or 5 different continents, playing week in and week out. High stress and living out of a suitcase. I don’t blame them one bit either.
     
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  7. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    "Nadal, who had previously accused controllers of "harassing" the players, said he had a problem with players having to inform anti-doping authorities of their whereabouts on a daily basis.

    "Sure, I would love to have a few changes," he said. "I think that's too much to have to say every day of your life where you are".

    Is he trying to appear less informed than he really is?

    Quoted directly from WADA's website:

    "Whereabouts requirements are for the limited number of top-level athletes who are in the registered testing pool of either their IF or NADO. They were designed to give those top-level athletes a flexible tool to show their commitment to doping-free sport, as well as appropriate, sufficient and effective privacy protection."


    ----

    "Athletes can update their 60-minute time-slot and their whereabouts at all times, including by emailing or text messaging their relevant anti-doping organization. If they miss a test, they have the opportunity of providing a reason. If this excuse is accepted by the relevant anti-doping organization, then the missed test is not part of any record and does not count as one of three missed tests required within 18 months before any sanction is considered by the relevant ADO."

    -----

    "- The requirement for top-level athletes included in the registered testing pool of either their IF or NADO to specify 1 hour each day (between 6 a.m. and 11 p.m.) during which they can be located at a specified location for testing."


    -----

    Also, he says that doping is not a problem in Tennis, and we have recent proofs that this is not the case.

    And I know for a fact, that in numerous sports the anti-doping procedures are harsher and more invasive (to player's personal lifes). I cannot recall certain top cyclists moaning about the anti-doping procedures applied to their sport.
     
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  8. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I am not sure those guys compete year round, or travel as much. I could be wrong. In any case, their sport deserves the scrutiny due to the incidents.

    If I have to be tested like this in the workplace, I would certainly feel bad. I would not agree with someone who says "But Federer is subject to these tests." If it is not reasonable to me, I will complain and what others say is not the point.
     
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  9. JennyS

    JennyS Hall of Fame

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    Players who tested positive for steroids: Mariano Puerto, Greg Rusedski, Sesil Karatantcheva, Juan Ignacio Chela, Guillermo Coria, Petr Korda, Bodhan Ulihrach, Ignacio Truyol.

    Players who tested positive for other drugs: Andre Agassi, Martina Hingis, Mats, Wilander, Guillermo Canas , Richard Gasquet, Ivo Minar, Fillipo Vollandri, Laura Pous Tio, Antony Dupuis, Karol Beck, Mariano Puerto, Lourdes Dominguez Lina, and Karl Novacek
     
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  10. JennyS

    JennyS Hall of Fame

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    I do think the ridiculous tennis schedule encourages players to dope.
     
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  11. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    ^^ don't forget some of those you listed appealed their decision and "pwned" the ITF.

    Like Volandri who was banned for using asthma medication for his medical condition (hint... ASTHMA)

    He won his appeal and is going to sue the ATP.
     
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  12. dwhiteside

    dwhiteside Semi-Pro

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    Tennis is probably one of the only sports where those who dope don't tell any other players about it, unlike team sports like Baseball where it's sometimes common knowledge between allied players, and openly discussed within the team. Tennis is cutthroat and competitive so there's no way you'd tell someone who you fight against day in and day out you're doping. Nadal has no frame of reference and no way to make any claims whatsoever... he has no idea either way, except maybe for a few close friends he has on the tour.
     
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  13. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He has to speak out, as he is on the ATP Player's Council. His job is to protect the image of current players from statements thrown around by rich and retired players with possibly an axe to grind (book sales, run for office). Federer is also on the council, but of course it is too much to expect him to take a stand on anything.
     
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  14. TennisFan008

    TennisFan008 Guest

    I don't see how he can be so sure of that when someone like Eufemiano Fuentes claimed he treated tennis players.
     
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  15. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Of course he cannot be sure of that. It is a figure of speech, like a school principal saying that his 2010 graduates will shine in life. If he was sure of that, there would be no drug testing labs around. Everybody would just ask Nadal if someone was doping. It means that to his personal knowledge and his interactions with players due to his being on the council, he feels it is not a problem.
     
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  16. TennisFan008

    TennisFan008 Guest

    It's not a figure of speech (besides he never used the S-word). There's a difference between being convinced of something and actually knowing it. I realize he doesn't really know for a fact, nor does he claim to do so.
    It means that he doesn't think tennis has a doping problem? Really? Wow, I never would've figured that out from that vague statement. Thank you for clearing that up for me.
    I believe it's all about image rather than conviction. Remember when he said it was wrong of Agassi to reveal his meth use and the following cover up because it was bad for the sport? Yup, the image of the sport is probably the reason he insists that it does not have a doping problem. It's the same reason why Agassi used to praise the ATP's amazingly stringent anti-doping efforts and the reason the ITF's anti-doping programme is constructed the way it is.
     
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  17. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It is his duty to protect the image of the sport. It affects his livelihood and those of others, and as someone elected to the council, he has to do it. He shouldn't lie if he knows something, but again he should not keep quiet when someone like Agassi comes out with an allegation (years later, just before releasing a book). If he does not protest, he is not doing his duty.

    And again, the doping agency is not ITF any more, it is WADA. Things have changed since when Agassi took drugs.
     
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  18. CCNM

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    Rafa can't be that naive/ignorant can he???
     
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  19. Baikalic

    Baikalic Semi-Pro

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    Exactly...
     
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  20. Xenakis

    Xenakis Hall of Fame

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    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

    (just joking, I don't think Nads is on roids, also he isn't a woman, natch.)
     
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  21. Tennis_Hands

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    What does the matter of anti-doping whereabouts have to do with how long their active season is? Actually, come to think about it, it is even greater violation of their privacy (due to the possibility of more complex scheduling during their spare time, not because the intensity of the actions of the doping agents)) if they have to provide their whereabouts for longer periods (if they have longer off season, that is) during their time out of official competitions.

    About their travelling schedule - to me the whereabouts thing is not about their time when they are in official competitions. When they have competitions they also have quite clear schedule of what they are going to do, so, providing exact time and place, is no different than scheduling any other task, that they are going to perform. I cannot see why they would have a problem providing such information with more difficulty than, say, set certain schedule for a training session.
    When in off season, they have less days to manage in terms of exact locations and times, compared to sports with larger off season. Also, note that providing the whereabouts doesn't mean, that they will have "visitors". If a professional player is competing in a sport, that is known for its doping "cases", it could easily turn out, that he is "visited" more often than a player, who is competing in a cleaner sport.

    Your comment about a professional sportsperson deserving a stricter scrutiny just because it happens so, that he is competing in sport with more doping cases is very strange. You almost said that every professional cyclist out there is "guilty until he proves the oppposite". You may well be right but I don't think this is the right approach towards the problem.

    About you feeling bad if you are treated like this. As I said before, I don't think that the whereabouts thing is related to their active season.

    In fact, there is really small chance, that if you are not a top professional in any sport, you will have to abide by such rules. On the other hand, if you are
    top professional .... well, the guts come with the glory.
     
    #21
  22. ArchEtech

    ArchEtech New User

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    Thats what his trainer tells him...... "No Nadal its just a Flinstones chewable..."
     
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  23. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    The WADA is usually the 3rd party tester and regulates the ITF, however how the testing is done and the scheduling of tests etc. is still up to the ITF.
     
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  24. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    To protect the sport would be to find and punish those who take drugs,not to hide the dust bellow the carpet.:rolleyes:
     
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  25. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Nadal's job is not to enforce anti-doping regulations.

    That is like saying no one should defend an innocent person, but instead follow the police around helping them.

    Each person must do what he is tasked to do.
     
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  26. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    yes,it's not his job but his job isn't either to hide the dirt and pretend all its good and innocent in the world of tennis.

    The example you make has no revelance with the situation.
     
    #26
  27. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal should come clean already.
     
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  28. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That only applies if he has any knowledge. If not, he has no obligation to say anything. In fact, if he says anything without proof, he can be sued. Only the agencies which are in charge can say anything. I think there is some naive idea out there that people should go around finding faults in others and accuse them. It is actually illegal to do that if there is no evidence.
     
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  29. Inner Game

    Inner Game Semi-Pro

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    When they finally catch Nadal what will he say? I thought it was only cream for muscle pain....How dumb does Nadal think people are!
     
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  30. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Nadal is revealing everything in his autobiography. It is called HOPE.



















    but spelt as DOPE.
     
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  31. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Do you feel like Nadal is enforcing the anti-doping regulations by agreeing to abide by the rules of WADA? I don't. He doesn't have the power to do that and this is not his resposibility.

    And how exactly is he going to protect the integrity of tennis by obstructing WADA on their decision to enforce stricter anti-doping regulations? If he is not knowledgeable of the abuse of any prohibited substances (which he is , due to the public nature of the WADA and NADO announcements on their findings and decisions) by any tennis player, why should that be a problem for him?

    Protecting the right of private life and protecting the integrity of sport is not the same thing.

    And how exactly is Nadal capable of making a proper estimation of what the measures against the newest performance enhancing sustances should be? Because, anti-doping measures follow closely the development of those. WADA has the experts, who can say what should be done and when. Nadal (and noone on the Player's Council for that matter) doesn't know what actually he is talking about (in the best case scenario) when anti-doping measures are discussed. He can only speak on behalf of the professional tennis players in terms of what those anti-doping measures mean to their the private life. Which should not be a matter at all, because :

    1) They are top professionals and, as such, are subject to more public exposure than the average Joe and
    2) If their performance during the active season can be influenced by some "actions" during their off season, there is no reason why this situation should remain free of scrutiny.

    On your example with the police: It is police's job to find evidence to whether someone is guilty or not. Any citizen should be cooperative when asked to help the investigation. The way it is, WADA is the anti-doping police, and the players are the citizens, that should cooperate in order to maintain ceratain order. Or do you think, that if a policeman ask you to step out of your car/open the trunk, because he has reasons to believe, that this is what should be done at the moment, you refuse, because you feel more comfortable in that car of yours rather than outside of the car?
     
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  32. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    What are you talking about? How is he obstructing anything? If Roddick complains about the long season, is he obstructing tournaments? Do you think WADA gives **** about Nadal's thoughts? Do you think they keep him in the loop about other players?

    Your example is so off it is not worth my time to address that. Give me an example when Nadal had knowledge of someone doing drugs, WADA approached him for a testimony, and he refused to talk. Till then, stop spinning stories in your head.
     
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  33. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Obstructing (or objecting, if you prefer that) = MAKING STATEMENTS that directly confront the idea of the changes of the anti-doping regulations. Nadal has spoken and you acknowledge that (the bolded part). And what he said was a STATEMENT AGAINST proper stricter anti-doping procedures.
    If Roddik complains about the long season it still holds water, because that is true in general, and he can support his claims by pointing out the facts. If Nadal says, that tennis doesn't have a problem with doping he cannot support his claims with facts, because, in reality, he is not competent to say it and he doesn't have facts to prove it. On the contrary. There has been a plethora of PES cases in the past several years. And that is without doing tests about the most advanced methods of doping that are known to other sports. I would very much like to see the employment of the "Biological passport" in tennis, because I feel that if nothing is done we are to see multiple tennis players with different health issues.

    Oh, and the fact that WADA doesn't give **** about what Nadal said doesn't void his public opinion and doesn't make it lesser statement either.

    You say that he is protecting the image of the sport. I asked you how exactly he is protecting that image and you didn't respond. I would very much like to hear that answer from you or anyone who thinks that Nadal is doing any good to the sport with his opinion.:-? Because, tennis is not the only sport, where those rules has been applied, you know.

    And what on Earth has Agassi to do with the enforcement of the new anti-doping regulations? I did not invite Agassi's confessions in this conversation in spite of the fact, that they are the reason why Nadal voiced his mind about the new anti-doping regulations yet again. You did. I only speak about Nadal's statements concerning those regulations and they are not stemming from Agassi's confessions.

    Also, you claim that Nadal feels that doping is not a problem is ..... laughable. I am sorry, but this is as naive as it gets.
    I would take proper scientific tests over Nadal's feelings any day of the week.

    My example is OK. When you are asked to step out of your car you are not convicted in any crime, are you? It is part of the standart procedure, and even though you may not be extremely comfortable with that, you take it as it is, because you know that this procedure helps the police to maintain the order overall and this procedure HAS BEEN DEVELOPED BY PROFESSIONALS who know what are the EXACT efects of executing it. Players should accept, that giving their whereabouts is part of the standart procedure, developed by anti-doping specialists, that know a thing or two about how doping works and how exactly the anti-doping procedures should be followed.

    Finally. I comment on the enforcement of the new anti-doping regulations and Nadal's constant negative reaction against them. I cannot understand why Nadal keep saying the same thing over and over again, when it is clear, that it will not change anything and, more importantly, it constantly draws attention towards the tennis world in a negative way. It seems that you had your own agenda coming in to this thread - Agassi's confessions and whatnot. But, please, not everybody is interested in what Agassi is saying right now. It doesn't have anything to do with today's tennis.
     
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  34. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    There have been DOZENS of others who have tested positive but have been let by due to "low" overages (that's relative as the bar is so high, that being even a little over, is rather damning). Or because their wasn't enough "evidence' or there was "reasonable" doubt eg. trainers giving out contaminated tablets (dozens of players got off on that excuse, including Rusedski, even though his result was way after the scandal, after intensive investigation, not a single contaminated tablet was ever found).

    I don't know if Nadal really believes this, it requires:
    1.he doesn't use anything himself (possible)
    2.he hasn't heard of other players using and/or his people tell him nobody is using (possible but unlikely)

    Doping is surely widespread in tennis, but whether Nadal knows....who knows....I can also say that he would get eviscerated by the ATP if he actually said anything, even if he knows.
     
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  35. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    I wouldn't blame them either, but I still need proof, not speculation.
     
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  36. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Then you'll will always assume nobody dopes, because there simply is no way to provide any evidence. The players who get caught....there is a word for it....morons! Well....if you have the resources of a top player that is....then there is little reason for you to be ignorant and sloppy enough to get caught. A lesser player....may not have all the knowledge and/or drugs necessary....

    In any case....wow...I wouldn't point the finger at any individual without proof...but....wow....entire teams of cyclists disqualified.....baseball players outed....track and field coaches admitting they've doped every athlete they ever worked with....you're really kidding yourself if you think it's a few bad apples. In many sports it simply isn't possible to compete at the world class level anymore without using. You would literally be competing with non-humans. People who have chemically altered themselves outside human norms...
     
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  37. Spinz

    Spinz New User

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    Exactly. This starts in the juniors when you dont tell your fellow eleven year old buddy that you eat blueberry pancakes because you think it gives you an edge and you dont want him to have the same.
     
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  38. Casey10s

    Casey10s Rookie

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    Hopefully Nadal won't turn out like Roger Clemens. Complain about steroids being used by other players but then get caught himself.
     
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  39. Spinz

    Spinz New User

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    The "incidents" in cycling are because of the scrutiny, not the other way around. Cyclists dont dope more than any other pro athletes, they just get caught more often, usually because they travel in packs and therefore dope in packs, and often are caught by the police versus anti-doping controls. They also don't make as much money or have as much money to begin with (it is more of a working class sport) so they can't afford their own elite doctors, hence the reliance on the team to take care of it for them.
     
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  40. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    There is much truth to this. Of course though, the vast majority of cyclists, like other pro athletes, DON'T get caught. It is funny to me that some people are able to believe that an entire team could get caught with every manner of drug under the sun, then happily believe that the "cheaters" got caught, and that the OTHER guys who COMPETE directly with them, aren't using anything! It's pretty darn difficult in world class cycling to compensate for a guy who chemically altered himself beyond human norms to have increased strength, stamina, speed, and ability to process oxygen, with sheer skill.....LOL
     
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  41. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

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    I have a fairly strong suspicion that this is exactly what will happen to him. If it did it would be totally devastating to tennis, and also Roger Federer. Nadal's beaten him all those times in all those important matches, and all along he was a cheat. I think the person who would be hurt by that news the most would definitely be Federer.
     
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  42. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    Go back to your cave.
     
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  43. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Disregard ninman's comments

    Major troll/drakulie's proxy account
     
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  44. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

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    So drakulie uses a proxy account in China now?
     
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