Nadal time-wasting gem

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TheFifthSet, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

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    Now I'm not a Nadal basher but I just have to post this. Fastforward to 1:18, Nadal spent like 50 seconds between a point! And at :24, he spends 28 seconds after a let call. Too funny. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jfvvaEPfcI
     
    #1
  2. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

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    You don't have to be a "Nadal-basher" to notice that he does takes his time, yes.
    But it's not up to him whether he does so or not - it's up to the UMPIRES to enforce the rules. As long as they don't do their jobs properly, you can't blame the players taking advantage of that, no?
     
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  3. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

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    I know, it's just funny as hell in this case. You could see that the crowd was a bit amused.
     
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  4. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    Now go watch the Sampras Federer match of 2002, and they were 3 all in the first set in less than 16 minutes.. Not once did either player go for a towel, or look at a box for assistance... The game has gone to **** with these lazy plunks.....
     
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  5. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    It doesn't bother me.
    I don't like that he lets his opponents and the umpire waiting at the net, at the beginning of the match.
     
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  6. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

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    It DOES bother me, but then again - if the umpires don't do their job properly, who's to blame?
    Surely not the players.
     
    #6
  7. OTMPut

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    don't be too harsh. the guy cannot serve. probably is too nervous (and even is p*ssing in his pants if the guy on the other side of the net is djokovic or davydenko or soderling) to get one past the net.
     
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  8. Dreamcastin

    Dreamcastin Rookie

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    I dont hate nadal either and think hes one hell of a player and a fighter(one of the best of all time) and like watching him play for the most part. but the time wasting is plain ridiculous and pisses me off. I agree with you music lover, hopefully they will crack down.
     
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  9. TheMusicLover

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    If the umpires continue 'sleeping' (read: kiss the top player's asses) nothing's going to change, no.
    But then again, you just can't blame the players for taking advantage of that. It's not their job.
     
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  10. Lsmkenpo

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    Carlos Ramos tried to enforce the rules at the French Open giving Nadal two time warnings, after that Uncle Toni complained that Ramos is a bad umpire and he doesn't want him doing anymore of Rafa's matches.

    So, now the umpires just let him get away with it.
     
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  11. reversef

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    There have always been players who like to take their time. Lendl was one of them. I think the players have less time now because of him.
    For Nadal, it's true that he takes his time, but look how much he plays. You compare him to Sampras. He was an ace machine. I couldn't watch him actually. I completely lost interest for men tennis during the nineties because of players like him (Sampras, Becker who was still there, Ivanisevic, Krajicek). I could only watch tennis on clay.
    What I mean is that even if Nadal takes a lot of time between points, he still gives me more tennis than most players. His points are generally long and spectacular. The guy gives everything he has. That's what I wanna see when I watch tennis.
    I guess you never find a Sampras-type of player who takes his time between points, do you?
     
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  12. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

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    So tell me, is Ramos from that moment on prohibited to umpire any of Rafa's matches? I haven't noticed that, might just be me...?

    Whatsoever, the umpires should just DO THEIR JOBS, but I can well see where the problem comes from... Guess those umpires' knees are even weaker than Nadal's! :shock:
     
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  13. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

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    So basically it's like Animal Farm, all players are equal, but the top-players are "more equal"...
     
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  14. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

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    BINGO.
    It all comes down to this: MONEY Talks, and **** Walks!
     
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  15. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    I think he has umpired some of his matches since, the incident was in 2006.
    Funny stuff, Uncle Toni said the the umpire was looking at him too much.

    PARIS -- Rafael Nadal's uncle and coach, Toni, complained about the officiating of his nephew's French Open semifinal Friday, calling chair umpire Carlos Ramos "horrible."

    Ramos warned Nadal for taking too much time between points during his three-set victory over Ivan Ljubicic.

    "He was hurrying him all the time. A horrible attitude," Toni Nadal said.

    The coach also said Ramos told Carlos Costa, the player's agent, to be quiet after Costa yelled encouragement during the match

    "In my opinion, the umpire was totally incorrect. He was constantly trying to provoke our side, throwing us looks," Toni Nadal said.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2477322&type=story
     
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  16. Kaz00

    Kaz00 Semi-Pro

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    im scared to watch the video in fears of falling asleep from waiting for the people to serve lol

    but seriously why arent the umpires counting the players if i was an umpire i could care less about the whole stadium hating me i would call time penaltys if they take longer than whats allowed, its my job just like that lines lady on serena lol
     
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  17. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

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    :shock:
    Nothing seems to have changed since then... whatsoever.

    My point still stands - who's to blame for this? Nadal? Djokovic?
    Don't think so - *** kissing ATP, perhaps? Nothing's going to change as long as you & I will keep on paying all those $$$$$$ for them tournament tickets, no? ;)
     
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  18. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyirCyhC8ZU

    Here is the match highlights where Carlos Ramos warned Nadal ,watch right at the beginning Nadal's routine before he serves:):

    - First he has to clean the baseline with his foot
    -than he has to smack the clay off his shoes
    -than adjust both socks
    -than clean the line again
    -bounce the ball, stop and look at his opponent
    -bounce the ball again than finally serve.

    He wins the point than walks half way across the court to towel off and start the whole routine again,it takes so long they replay the entire point in slow motion on TV, before he is ready to serve again, classic.
     
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  19. TheMusicLover

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    ^^ I don't think there should be any a discussion on whether Nadal or Djokovic, or DelPotro, or whoever indeed are time-wasters. They all are, should be obvious, unless you are too blind to see.

    The main point is, why don't those umpires do anything about it???

    I think I know why.
    Has something to do with Top Players = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    ;)
     
    #19
  20. reversef

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    Maybe there is a reason why top players take a lot of time between points. The game is hard. What the public wants is the best tennis possible. That's all. I don't give a **** about the time wasted between points if the points are spectacular. If they are not, I stop watching.
     
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  21. reversef

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    Maybe there is a reason why top players take a lot of time between points. The game is hard. What the public wants is the best tennis possible. That's all. I don't give a **** about the time wasted between points if the points are spectacular. If they are not, I stop watching.
     
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  22. Tennis_Monk

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    I guess these guys dont have to pay court fees by the hour.
    Try playing like Nadal in Indoor courts. With the fees , the way they are, one would need a fortune to complete a set.
     
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  23. Tennis_Monk

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    Didnt seem that long. By my count, the point ended at 1:25 (after ball boy picked up the ball cleanly and returned back to his position). Nadal was ready to start his serving action by ~ 1:52 . I would say around 30 seconds, hardly uncommon in today's pro circuit.

    Ofcourse, a stricter intrepretation of rules may take the clock from 1:25 to 2:00 (when he actually hit the serve) which makes it 35 seconds.
     
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  24. TheFifthSet

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    He was still fidgeting like crazy from 1:52-2:04 (when the point began).
     
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  25. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    A thread exists calling for the banning of all towels, you should revive it! It's no secret, towels have ruined tennis!
     
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  26. JennyS

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    I uploaded this video of Nadal and Djokovic wasting time in Madrid:D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhF20UKYboA

    Also, the time wasting is bad for the game because it's a real turn off to fans who don't want to sit around an extra hour or so watching a match. Henin and Capriati's 2003 US Open semi had 3 more minutes of actual tennis than the Madrid match, yet took one hour LESS to play.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    #26
  27. Changmaster

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    Wrong, the the "clock" for the 20-25 seconds allowed between pts starts RIGHT when the pt ends; in this case, when Baghdatis's backhand hit the net and touched the ground. The clock ends when the player HITS the serve, not when the player starts the serving action, because what if the player's serving action takes 60 seconds? In this pt, Nadal took 46 seconds between pts. So yes, this is very uncommon, otherwise Nadal wouldn't be picked on for his slow play, along with a few other players.

    Although to be honest, I agree with you, the time did not seem THAT long. Only when actually timing the pt did I realize, "Damn, he took TWICE the allowed time to serve!" What was really ridiculous was the time he took between serves after a let around :22. He took MORE time than was allowed between pts, and you could actually FEEL the time dragging along. You could hear the crowd murmuring about it.

    If a player goes slightly above the time limit, then that's okay, but if a player uses DOUBLE the time allowed, or even more, then the umpires should step in. The fact that Nadal gets away with such time-wasting is partially the umpires' fault, but it IS partially Nadal's fault, too. He knows the rules(I hope). He probably knows he takes too much time between pts. He is obligated to follow the rules even if someone isn't actually penalizing him for breaking them. It's just like if someone breaks the law, but doesn't get caught. Is it the police's fault, or the criminal's? Whether or not the criminal gets caught, he still did something against the law. (I don't mean to compare Nadal to a criminal:))

    BTW, Nadal is one of my favorite players, I love watching him, but he should not spend upwards of a whole minute between pts.
     
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  28. ninman

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    Hell yes you can, you're right the umpires must enforce the rules but that doesn't give the players the right to break them in the first place. It's like saying that it's ok for me to steal if the police aren't going to charge me for it.
     
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  29. JennyS

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    I thought it would be interesting to figure out how long these classic matches would have taken had they been played at the same minutes per point pace. It's pretty hilarious:


    Roddick vs El Aynaoui, 2003 AO: 8 hours!
    Santoro vs Clement, 2004 FO: 7 hours, 34 minutes
    Federer vs Roddick, 2009, 7 hours, 9 minutes
    Federer vs Safin, 2005 AO: 6 hours, 28 minutes
     
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  30. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Sooner or later everyone will start stealing if they know the police won't charge them for it. I heard someone say that Tony complained about Ramos giving Rafa a warning and that he didn't want him to umpire Rafa's games(though I think rafa played umpired by ramos again,as far as I know). Let's say that the Nadal camp tries strongarm tactics to bully umpires into submission,to force them to allow Rafa's time-wasting tactics.I can understand that working on one or two umpires but all of them? Come on...

    The solution isn't that complicated. I hear talks of shot clocks and so on. All you need is a couple of umpires ready to stand up to the time-wasters(maybe even telling them how much time they wasted),do it a couple more times and they will speed things up. Guys like Djoker and Nadal do it as a reflex, I think it's in their nature by now. I saw Nadal wasting time in an exibition match against nr.109 in the world before RG,when he didn't need to do it. It is probably his thing,to keep his concentration. Same for djoker with the ball bouncing. They stay in their comfort zone to concentrate and forget that they are breaking the time rule.

    If Nadal and Djoker have this time-wasting ritual to concentrate better and they see(or maybe they don't even know) that no one is punishing them for it,why should they stop doing it? Now if Nadal and Djoker get penalised every other game,they will be FORCED to adapt and find a new way,a faster way to keep their focus.

    Also,for whatever it's worth,I would only allow toweling once per game. Nothing annoys me more than a player going for a towel after serving a ace or near-ace or rallying 2 or 3 shots.
     
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  31. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    I personally can't stand waiting in between points when I play tennis. I like the game to move quickly and smoothly.
     
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  32. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    That's part of sports, if you can't handle it you can't handle being a champion.
     
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  33. All-rounder

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    Since when did time wasting become part of the sport?
     
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  34. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    So you are saying it's ok for him to continue to cheat as much as he wants to since the empire is not doing anything. Rafa is well awared that he surpassed the time limit, he consciously know that he's taking the advantage...that's CHEATING. He should play by the rule to be fair for both player, win or lose. Rafa pulled off alot of tight matches in his career, and his wasting time plays the part for his success in those TIGHT matches.
     
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  35. patty_mnouchkine

    patty_mnouchkine Semi-Pro

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    BINGO
    10 char
     
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  36. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Blaming on the umpire but nothing on Rafa?
    It's not rafa's job, but he knows the rules, and to violated it just to gain an edge over his peers is still cheating.

    If Rafa wasn't terrify of losing, then he might obey the rule.
     
    #36
  37. Lsmkenpo

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    I have no problem with a player taking their time with in the rules to get relaxed to serve the next point, the problem is some of these guys are using it to freeze the returner, standing there waiting to receive longer than 20-25 seconds gives the server a definite advantage, it is BS, Soderling was one of the few players to call Nadal out on this tactic.

    Seriously watching that Wimbledon video I can't believe Baghdatis let him take that long, he was far too nice. Nice guys finish last, Nadal knows this that is why he is only nice after the match not during.
     
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  38. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Again,why do you insult the ATP? Am I supposed to believe soderling is the only one with enough cojones to do it? Even though the tour has hotheads like roddick,gonzales(who even hit stephanek after he took too long,go watch it on youtube) and so many others,only the "great" soderling had enough "courage" to stand up to Nadal. Come on...

    Am I supposed to believe that even when Nadal was a freshman(he still took too long even back then) no veteran called him out on it? Why? Just because he was Nadal?

    You have to ask yourself,who is right,one guy(soderling) or the rest of the atp? The other players acknowledge that Nadal takes too much time but it doesn't seem to me like they mind too much unless he really goes overboard(roddick called him out when he took too much time on a changeover).
     
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  39. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    I will tell you why some don't do it, because Nadal is a media darling and they will look like a bad guy no matter if they are right or not, because some idiots in the media will put a spin on it like Nadal is the victim and completely innocent.

    Soderling called him on it because he is one of the few that really doesn't care about being made into the bad guy, he is not out there to win friends or influence people, he is out there to win the match. He is not worried about losing sponsors.
     
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  40. reversef

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    Soderling is not the only one who complained. I think that Agassi (Canada) and Ljubicic (RG) complained as well. And Federer at Wimbledon. Probably other ones. But it's not such a big thing. And actually, the Soderling episode has to be put in a context. That match had no end. Soderling got really unnerved and used this thing. It could have been something else. Something really stupid: Nadal forgot to announce "new balls", started to serve, stopped because he remembered he had new balls and that put Soderling out of his mind. His reaction was really gross, but again, it has to be put in the context of that endless match.
     
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  41. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    It was time to get Nadal called out on it. Yes it was tacky but it was some time coming. Nadal can't expect everybody just to look the other way. It so happened that Soderling doesn't really give a rats ass about him. The context you are putting it in is one that is convenient to you. Nadal has been doing this for a long time and believe me, he is aware of it. Nadal's mistake was he tried to be cute and did the new balls thing. Nadal tried to be funny, it was just unfortunate Soderling is not a fan of Rafa's comedy.
     
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  42. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I remember Andre got irritated by Rafa attempt to slow down Andre's service game. Andre is known for playing fast tennis, and when he lost his sevice rhythm b/c of Rafa, he raise his voice to the umpire by asking something like "are we playing the pace from the server side?".
     
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  43. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Nadal was doing this when he wasn't a star and he was rarely called out on it. Who was gonna lose sponsorship over calling out a 17-18 year old with almost no big wins to his name? Most of the guys don't mind if he takes 5-10 seconds more though they will call him out if he takes even more(see roddick on the changeover bit when Nadal took almost a minute or something like that). As james Blake said,each player has his "thing" and if it is kept within respectable limits most players let it go. It has been so with Nadal. If most players minded the time abuse,they would have called Nadal on it more,since he has been doing it for at least 5 years on tour and like I said,Soderling isn't the only one who doesn't care about being a "good guy". Guys like Gonzalez who cheated in the Olympics,who hit stephanek because he was taking too long,do you think that they are gonna be swayed by Nadal's reputation? "Oh,this guy is way too popular,I better not take a swing at him for taking too long".

    Again,you are indirectly calling the ATP idiots. Let's say I am top30 player who doesn't share major sponsors with Nadal. What's to stop me from calling Nadal out,especially when the arguments are on my side? I mean,look,most players can prove without the shadow of a doubt that Nadal wastes time and there certainly a lot of people in the game who can attest to that. It's not like it is a hollow argument. All you need is a few players to get the ball rolling and maybe umpires will enforce this rule when it comes to Nadal.
     
    #43
  44. reversef

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    :confused::confused: Telling your opponent that you will serve with new balls is not funny or cute, it's just polite.
     
    #44
  45. reversef

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    The umpire: "I'm sorry, but he's entitled to take 20 secs".
     
    #45
  46. doublebreak

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    I think most players don't openly object to the time wasting because it is the kind of issue that can escalate into a significant distraction. A tennis player must be able to control his emotions, to focus for long periods, to eliminate distractions, to not let the little things bother you (i.e. some one that takes the pace out of the ball). A player wasting time can be annoying, but for a professional player it should be something relatively easy to deal with it, so most players focus on what they can control and nothing more. They can not control how much time the opponent spends between points, they can not control the umpire, they can object to the umpire, but the hassle does not seem to be worth it, so I think they just try to brush it off, because they are professionals.

    I wish players spoke more against this wasting of time because I'm sure not only it is annoying to many of them, but many fans do want to see more tennis and less ball bouncing, pulling socks, adjusting the hair, the underwear, toweling off. On paper, a Djokovic - Nadal sounds great, but I can't really watch a whole match between them, rather just catch some highlights. In the same way I can not watch a Sharapova/Williams (not suggesting the tennis is comparable by any stretch of the imagination to Nad-Djok) match because of their dumb screaming. Those things are tangible turn offs in my opinion that affect the popularity of the sport. It's a good thing there are many people out there editing the matches on youtube and elsewhere so we can just see the tennis. Thanks to those guys for the good work.
     
    #46
  47. Ad-Out

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    I can't remember if I am correct but, I believe the rules state that the game has to be played according to the serving player's pace. If the player serving wants to take 20 seconds or 5 seconds its all up to him. The receiver must play to the pace of the server. I don't believe the receiver has the right to take the 20 second break in between points if the person serving is ready to start the point.

    I could be wrong though, but I thought that someone had mentioned it before in a previous thread about this.
     
    #47
  48. Lsmkenpo

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    How do you know players are not calling him out on it? because they don't mention it to the media during the press conference, is that why you think no one cares?

    Ljubocic brought it up 2006 FO , and when the umpire warned Nadal twice, Uncle Toni went to the media and made Carlos Ramos into the bad guy for trying to enforce the rules against him, calling him a horrible umpire.
     
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  49. Rippy

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    I'm pretty sure you're right.
     
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  50. doublebreak

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    You must play at the server's pace within reason. The 20 or 25 second is the upper limit, but taking too little (2 or 3 sec) in order to rush the returner is not acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
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