Nadal time-wasting gem

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TheFifthSet, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

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    You're right, Federer complained to the umpire in a match against Verdasco about this. Verdasco was taking too much time on the return and Federer asked if they were playing to the server's pace.
     
    #51
  2. Lsmkenpo

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    $$$ Exactly, it is a hindrance to play, but the players can't focus on the time the opponent is taking during the match, the umpire needs to control this, it should not be up to the player to focus on the issue and complain, if he does the time abuser wins, he now has the other player focusing on how much time he is taking and not on what he needs to do to win the match.
     
    #52
  3. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    He wouldnt be a top player if they enforced the rules, thats the irony. He expends a ton of energy during the point (due to his style), if he had to play by the rules he wouldnt be able to play like he does.

    Id watch sharapova (another time waster) over nadal, watching him pick his butt isnt nearly as appealing as a nice looking blonde.

    I know he has mental problems (like his fans) but someone needs todo something, he is unwatchable live. I think the chair should enforce the rules, thats the only reason they are on the court.
     
    #53
  4. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    The epitome of an objective,unbiased poster. Clearly a lot of people disagree with you seeing as most of Nadal's games take place in front of a packed stadium. Guess there a lot of sadomasochists in the world,no?:)
     
    #54
  5. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Yeah,and then what happened? Was Ramos banned from umpiring any Nadal game? Nadal's quircks are something that the players,sponsors,ATP,fans and so on have learned to accept. Either that or Nadal has something on them. No one would be tolerated this much if he did so much many wrong things(and so consistently) on court.

    EVERYBODY knows that Nadal takes way too much time. A few players mind and vocalise it from time to time,but most players and people around the game(sponsors,tournament directors,fans and son) seem to not give a ****,not necessarily to favor Nadal(and if they do so it's an indirect result) but because they have other issues to deal with.
     
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  6. Lsmkenpo

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    I think more than a few mind that is why it has become a trend over the past 5 years with the younger players, if you can't beat them join them.

    Just like the screaming in the WTA Sharapova does it and gets away with it now other young girls are doing it too.
     
    #56
  7. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    So you're saying it's ok to cheat if people allow you to?
     
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  8. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    It's not much because he did it but the manner he did it. I remembered he tried to be funny. Watch it again.
     
    #58
  9. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    I tend to look at the big picture and I always ask myself this question: why do players,tournament directors,sponsors,fans,media and so on allow Nadal to behave like this on court? If he is blatantly cheating time and time again by wasting time why doesn't anyone do something about? It's not like he wasn't doing this when he wasn't a star. He was still doing this back then when he had no one to protect him or stand up for him.

    As I have said before many accept it as a minor inconvenience and move on because Nadal gives so much on court. It's only when it gets out of hand to players protest against Nadal,meaning that they usually have no problem against him taking 5-10 seconds more but when he goes on to 40 seconds or something players usually say something to the umpire.

    I put myself in Nadal's shoes. Let's say that Nadal KNOWS that he can push the limit of the time rule and blatantly cheats(and he has been doing so since at least mid 2004). Most of the players say nothing to him or to the umpire. Most umpires don't tell him anything about it(it would be funny to have a guy call Nadal out like that umpire did with Safin's foot faults). I'm sure sponsors or tournament directors don't even mention it. His coach doesn't seem to mind. Nadal gets little negative feedback about his peculiar habits on court from all instances in the sport.

    So is it ok to cheat if people allow you to? I don't know. But let me answer with two questions: What kind of people would allow me to blatantly cheat all the time and what does it say about my competitors if I am cheating in front of them constantly and they don't say anything about it? Aren't they actually passively encouraging me to cheat? It's as if I am a thief stealing from the house each day and the owner is passively looking at me and the police doesn't do anything about it. If these guys are such dimwits that I am cheating on every service point,in every match for 5 years straight and they don't do anything about it,then they deserve it.

    Obviously this is an extreme take on the Nadal situation but you get my drift.
     
    #59
  10. Lsmkenpo

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    Certainly wasn't done to be polite.

    Here is the incident:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwvgnYDTTQ0

    -Soderling got up early from his chair to receive, he forgot they were going to new balls, which is when most switch to a fresh strung racquet.

    -Nadal was busy doing his usual pre serve rituals and didn't notice Soderling had ran over for the racquet.

    -After all the time delays and waiting Nadal has forced on opponents over the years he didn't like it in reverse, so he shook his head like he was upset and acted as if he was going to start his service motion, but decided
    he would attempt to show up Robin with the new balls gesture.

    - That is when Robin stepped out and did the imitation

    Funny how the only thing remembered is the imitation by some fans as if Soderling just decided to do it, and Nadal was the innocent victim.

    If Nadal wasn't so engrossed in adjusting all his crap pre serve he would have seen Soderling run over to get the racquet, I guarantee Nadal would not have tried to show up Federer with the little new balls gesture, if Roger forgot to switch his racquet.
     
    #60
  11. Rippy

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    The problem is, if the umpires complain, Toni will no doubt call them out on it, as he did with Ramos. If Nadal is breaking the rules (which he is), it is the job of the umpires to enforce them.
     
    #61
  12. namelessone

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    So if soderling suddenly remembered that there were new balls,shouldn't he have signalled to the server that he was going to get a new racket? What would have happened if Nadal had served while he the swede was going to get his racket? Would the point have been in Nadal's favour? Nadal was cheeky with sod with the "new balls" thing because soderling didn't say to him "hold up I have to get a new racket". It was disrespectful to say the least. It's like serving fast without assuring that the receiver is ready.
     
    #62
  13. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Yeah,and? If I am not mistaken Tony lashed out at Ramos in 06'. Was Ramos suspended from all of Rafa's matches? If Nadal's time wasting bit is a MAJOR problem someone should say something about it but it seems to me that most people in tennis would rather look away either because:

    a)they don't mind(tournament directors/sponsors who could care less as long as Nadal is bringing them money,hardcore Nadal fans who are blind to this)
    b)they actually do it themselves and they would look like hypocrites(especially true for some players)
    c)they don't want to come out because Nadal is a star right now and they would lose image and other things while coming out with this(some players who share sponsors with Rafa,perhaps even some umpires.)
    d)they do mind but they have learned to look beyond it and enjoy the other aspects of his game(some fans of his).

    I keep saying this: if it was a major issue in tennis,we would hear more about it but outside of internet forums,a few journalists and players few people vocalise about this issue. It's kind of a passively accepted thing: Nadal is a great player but he is also a time waster and that's that.
     
    #63
  14. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    It's hilarious the lengths you will go to defend Nadal.
     
    #64
  15. Lsmkenpo

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    If you are serving you should be aware of where the receiver is, there was no need to say hold up I am leaving, the server isn't blind, Nadal was just busy adjusting his socks not Soderlings fault, for all he knew Nadal would still be playing with his out fit by the time he returned.
     
    #65
  16. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Don't forget that the Umpire actually told Soderling they were switching to new balls and asked him if he wanted to get a new racquet.
     
    #66
  17. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    So cheating is ok as long as people look the other way. Ok, I guess the Holocaust was just fine as most German's just looked the other way right?




    It is a principal. It doesn't matter if you cheat by an inch or by 2000000000000000000000000000000000000000x miles. Cheating is cheating.
     
    #67
  18. Rippy

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    I think C is the main problem really. It occurs with other players too - I just think the umpires don't want to "fall out" with lots of players.

    I would argue the timewasting is a major problem. You do hear people speak out about it - just not all the time.
     
    #68
  19. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    So what if I am bouncing the ball,going through the motions and when I am ready to throw the ball I see with the corner of my eye that the receiver isn't there? Doesn't that make me look like a freaking idiot? It's a disrespectful thing to do. Is it that hard to warn the server that you are going to get a racket? All you have to do is signal or open your mouth for two seconds.
     
    #69
  20. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    So it's ok for Nadal to make his opponents wait on him yet its not ok for Soderling to go get a new racquet when they are using new balls?



    Thank you for displaying your total mancrush for Nadal and lack of any kind of objectivity at all. Nadal can waste all the time he wants and be disrespectful to his opponent by not playing to the pace of the server year in and year out, yet Robin Soderling who forgot to get a new racquet when they were using new balls should not have retaliated and just accepted Nadal's insult. Right.



    Soderling was indeed wrong in an ideal world where everyone should be nice to each other. However, in the real world, if someone punched me randomly out of the blue, I will strike back. Same thing happened here. Obviously Nadal was slightly irritated, however there was no reason for him to say "New Balls" when it was clear that Soderling was aware that new balls were being used (otherwise why would he suddenly go get a new racquet).
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
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  21. Lsmkenpo

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    Nadal wasn't close to starting his motion when Soderling left, watch the video again, it would be a different story if he interrupted Nadals service motion to make the change.

    I think any other player but Nadal would have been aware Soderling had left, Nadal is just engrossed in his little habits and rituals and not as aware as other players as a result.
     
    #71
  22. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    And yet according to namelessone it's ok for Nadal to waste time year in and year out yet one incident where Soderling held up Nadal for a legitimate reason is called "disrespectful."
     
    #72
  23. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Nice comparison by the way:rolleyes:

    Again,what does it say about my competitors if I am cheating day in day out in front of them and they just sit there like dumbasses? Or what does it say about the authorities if I am cheating against my competitors and breaking the rules that they set and their representatives do nothing about it?

    To me it is cheating if you break a certain set of rules in the game. If the guy who set up the rules in the game of tennis do not enforce them,why should I? It's not like Nadal is the only guy who does this,sure he is the worst offender but it is a tolerated attitude by the ATP,much like screaming in the WTA.If there are any ****s in this story they are the ATP as they passively allow this and they are the governing body of the spot. Seeing as the time limit rule is regularly skull****ed by a lot of players today(whether by 5 seconds or 20 seconds) it is almost as if it doesn't exist. When was the last time you saw a time violation being handed out at a high level? In theory if you go 1 second above the time limit you should get it but no umpire thinks like this because there are way too many variables in the game of tennis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    #73
  24. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Hahahahahaha, so to deflect my argument you go and try and point out that the officials and players are cowards. In fact, many players complain that Nadal wastes too much time right out in the open; the officials however are powerless to do anything because players in the current system hold too much power in the current governing system over the ITF/ATP.



    However, it still doesn't erase the fact that Nadal in fact is a CHEATER.



    I used that example because you used an equally dumb example. It is quite funny how far you go to defend Nadal, simply unwilling to accept the fact that what he does is unsportsmanlike, it is cheating (by the very definition), and it's just outright disrespectful to the umpire, the other player, and the fans to make everyone wait on him for no apparent reason (other than to gain a psychological advantage over his opponent).



    I mean seriously, why don't we just take this a step further. If no one cared about doping in tennis, and everyone did it, it's still ok right? Do you see how stupid your logic is? Just because the officials fail to enforce the time violation rules regularly does not mean that Nadal is allowed to break them. No matter HOW you spin it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    #74
  25. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Nadal started to bounce the ball(thus getting ready to start the motion) when he realised than there was no one to receive(he bounced the ball and then looked surprised in the direction of the umpire-he probably told him to wait) and he looked over and saw soderling looking for a new racket in his bag.
     
    #75
  26. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    So somehow Soderling is wrong?
     
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  27. Rippy

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    Yeah, Soderling was wrong - he should have indicated to Nadal without running off IMO. Doesn't mean Nadal isn't consistently wrong as well, of course.
     
    #77
  28. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    I think he had a minor infraction of forgetting to tell Nadal, however it was in no way disrespectful. So he forgot to get a new racquet when they changed balls; ok, fine. Nadal could have easily overlooked that.



    However, just because he interrupted his voodoo ritual, he proceeds to essentially humiliate Soderling in front of a stadium full of people. Yet Nadal fans think Soderling should take the insult and not retaliate.
     
    #78
  29. Lsmkenpo

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    So, what do you think Nadal was doing when Soderling left to make the switch,
    to not notice that the other player is not on the other side of the court? He certainly wasn't looking at the service box, yet.
     
    #79
  30. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    No, if you play tennis and don't notice something as big as the other player moving off the court before you serve it is your own fault, I guarantee any other player would have seen it, there is no reason to tell someone what they should be able to see with their own eyes. Guarantee Nadal was still fiddling around with his gear, for all Soderling knew he could probably go over and be back and Nadal would still be adjusting his socks or inspecting the tennis balls.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    #80
  31. Rippy

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    I don't think it's a major problem, but I certainly don't think Nadal is to blame for "not noticing". (He is, however, to blame for all his timewasting...)
     
    #81
  32. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    For me it is a unfortunate manifestation of his OCD. He doesn't need to time waste,just like he doesn't need to tugg his pants or arrange his water bottles.He does these little rituals for himself and he takes too much time with them. He time wasted in an exo before RG where he didn't need to have a psychological advantage over his opponent. He does it against tough opponents and he does it against weaker opponents. I already said many times that it is wrong but I stand by my original point. There are actually few people who are really vocal about this and most of them are on the internet.

    Another thing: can you really break a rule if it doesn't exist? Sure,we all mind Nadal's time-wasting bit but do you see other players who do it get penalised for doing the same thing? Very rarely. This rule exists in the book but it is seldom applied in todays tennis because today players take longer to serve. It is not a rule but is an accepted fact,unfortunately.Watch a random clip from the 80's or 90's and one from today and you will see that today's players go slower for the most part(especially with the towel bit).

    Yeah,the players hold too much power. The players are supposedly the first ones affected by Nadal's time-wasting yet they tolerate it and they aren't really campaining against time-wasting in the council. Nadal is one guy,why do the others cover for him if they are victims of his time-wasting? Because a lot of them time waste as well,others don't want to get involved and other players don't mind time-wasting(more time for them to recover from tough rallies I guess).

    Let's say Nadal cheats. It is wrong. His peers allow him to cheat. Some of his peers cheat as well. The immaculate models whom you look up to(the non cheaters) to have the power to do something about it yet they choose to ignore the problem,thus again proving that they don't give a crap about time wasting. Federer has said that Nadal like to bide his time. Surely he has more influence than Nadal in the players council. Why doesn't he persuade the others to follow this course of actions? You know why? Because Federer doesn't really give a crap about this anymore and he knows that many guys in the young generation also like to take their time.

    The solution is deceptively simple: an official needs to say to Nadal and his team: "Look kid,I know you have OCD but you will get penalised if you break the time rule again and it will happen over and over again(a la safin footfault)". The thing is,if they do this,they have to let all the umpires in on this and they have to reinforce the rule with all timewasters,not just Nadal,though they should start with him,to set an example.
    But guess what,no ATP official will do this until the complaints get really big:from players,fans,the media,former players and so on. So far,few people have spoken publicly and ardently about this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    #82
  33. Lsmkenpo

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    If it is a mental disorder, why should the other players be held to a disadvantage because of it, Nadal should be forced to get help, or go play tennis in the special olympics. Nadal could stop the rituals if he wanted to, if you look at some of his earlier matches he didn't do it all the time, like he does now.

    Funny how there is no problem with it when he does it to his opponents, the one time someone does it back to him he causes a big scene, it is BS, if you dish it out you have to be willing to take it too. Nadal is not Ok with that, he wants to control the entire tempo of the match, and only him. He sets the tone from the coinflip making them wait at the net. It is about control.
     
    #83
  34. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    That's the very definition of OCD,doing things because you feel like YOU HAVE to do them in a certain way(and for whatever reason),not because they are necessary. Nadal got OCD in time. I can understand faking OCD to get away with time-wasting,but why would he "invent" butt-picking or water bottle arrangement? Wouldn't that make him look weird? If it were just the time wasting thing it wouldn't look legit to me but Nadal has some downright embarrassing rituals,from the tugging of the pants(publicly,in front of thousand of people),to arranging bottles in a certain way(and getting mad if anyone messes them up),to a whole series of routines in the serve motion(almost everytime it is the same rituals). And his OCD has gotten worse with time because he let it develop(and probably no one called him out on it) while doing his job(playing tennis). The ONLY ritual I have seen Nadal drop is adjusting his socks. Nothing else.

    Well,unless the ATP forces you to get help if you have OCD or else you can't compete or unless the players council do something about it,Nadal's time-wasting OCD routines will continue.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    #84
  35. Lsmkenpo

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    Where was the OCD in this match from 2004, watch his serve, he basically bounces the ball twice and serves, especially on his second.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plBzDU4QdfQ

    I view what he does as just a routine he has gotten into the habit of following not as severe OCD, do you watch baseball? many baseball players have routines they follow at the plate grabbing in the front worse than Nadal, do all of them also have OCD?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    #85
  36. Davy_for _GOAT

    Davy_for _GOAT Banned

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    CHEATER?

    Who is your favorite player? I just wanna check something out.
     
    #86
  37. Davy_for _GOAT

    Davy_for _GOAT Banned

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    How did he humiliate Sod?
     
    #87
  38. getbusyliving

    getbusyliving Banned

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    Nadal may be a cheater, but he's no Tiger...
     
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  39. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    So how come Nadal's OCD only manifests during important points? I can understand going maybe 5-10 seconds over the limit, but he routinely breaks the time limit by well over a minute on crucial points when he could easily just serve.



    And using OCD as an excuse is pitiful when Djokovic had time wasting habits too, yet he has curbed them quite abit.




    Like I said, you have proven that you are not anywhere near objective, as Soderling virtually did the same thing and you called it "disrespectful and wrong", yet it's ok for Nadal. Double standards galore everywhere for your hero right? It's ok for Nadal to break rules and waste time, but for everyone else that's a big no no. I'm done talking to you, as you cannot even be remotely objective when it comes to Nadal. He's either not 100%, he didn't play his best, or it's ok for him to break rules that were set in place for a reason according to you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    #89
  40. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    he he, that is some serious time-wasting :)

    But he was so comfortably up in the match, I'm a bit surprised he wasted so much of time at this juncture . Its usually when its tense that he wastes so much of time
     
    #90
  41. _maxi

    _maxi Banned

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    Wasting time is cheating. Then they say that he is a nice guy. He may be a nice guy outside the court.. but inside, he is a cheater.
     
    #91
  42. Well........:(
     
    #92
  43. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    OCD? Overt Cheating Disorder? LOL. Nadal has also added some more rituals to his OCD list.........excuses after losing. They are not necessary but he feels like he has to do it.
     
    #93
  44. getbusyliving

    getbusyliving Banned

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    He's not cheating.

    He's stretching the rules...
     
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  45. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Stretching is what Nadal does when he tugs on his panties but there is no rule against that..................as long as he serves the ball within the alloted time.
     
    #95
  46. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    All players have their habits but no one even comes close to Nadal on the OCD scale. I'm not equating OCD with time wasting though in tennis that happens if the rituals you feel you have to do add up. Also,having one thing does not mean you have OCD because we are talking about sports and one or two superstitions aren't uncommon.
    How can you compare djoker to Nadal? Djoker has his ball bouncing thing and he let it go easily,you even said he cut it down a bit. This is djoker's "thing" to keep his calm but it is one thing. He does not show signs of OCD on the bench nor does he have other rituals during the match.

    You are exagerrating,he sometimes goes up to 40 something seconds but he doesn't go to 80 seconds. Nadal's OCD shows up only during important points? Are we watching the same guy who takes too long to serve on a regular ball because he feels he needs to do all these rituals before actually serving and on important points,like all guys,he takes even longer to serve.
    Nadal used to serve faster before because he didn't have many OCD rituals. Like many of you said,he didn't pick his butt before,he didn't have the water bottle thing,he didn't ball bounce,he just bounced the ball once or twice and served.

    A normal player does this: he towels off quickly,steps up to the line,bounces the ball a few times(maybe arranges his hair or something like this but he does it quicky) and the proceeds to serve.

    Nadal as of 2009 does this: he feels he can't start a match without arranging his water bottles(not exactly related to tennis now is it?) and when he has to serve he does this: walks to towel off,gets three balls,chooses the ball,goes at the baseline,picks his butt,starts bouncing the ball with the racket,arranges his hair with his other hand and only then does he start the serve motion per se(which was always slow). Many of the things I have just noted here weren't present in 04 and if they were they were passing,he didn't do them on every point. Now he feels he NEEDS to do them in every match.

    Nadal's problem isn't his quirkyness,it is the fact that,because he has added more and more "rituals" to his already slow routine,he is wasting time. Normal players slow down their serve routine on big points to concentrate better because they know a crucial point is up next and a good serve will help them through it. Nadal does this as well but since he is slow to begin with due to the sheer number of things he THINKS HE HAS TO DO,it is even slower. It's not like Nadal is serving within limit during regular points and is molases slow during crucial ones. Because of his OCD rituals he is slow on regular points and very slow on crucial points.
     
    #96
  47. sennoc

    sennoc Guest

    Nadal doesn't waste time. Really. Check his... trainings.
     
    #97
  48. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

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    Yeah if I was Soderling I would have furious too. Having what about 10,000 people laughing at you because the biggest time waster in the game is making fun of you. I might actually have just walked around the net and smashed my raquet over Nadal's face.
     
    #98
  49. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Puerto y Galgo....
    not only...

    the most annoying thing about this episode is that Soderling was already by the baseline when his majesty decided to get his lazy fat derriere from the chair after the time call. then, on to take 37 seconds to start the serve routine (i said routine - not motion), Sod then gets abused by Nadal for a slight mistake (i give it for free that he could have given nadal a word, but who is going to expect he was only to bounce the ball 8 times instead of the usual 281 times) retaliates like a man would do and somehow Nadal fans still find Sod's to blame...

    you guys must be yoking!
     
    #99
  50. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
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    Well it has been about 3 years so I watched the clips again,I thought perhaps my biased memory was deceiving me. Soderling is at the baseline,Nadal is in his chair,the umpire yells time,Nadal gets up,towels off a bit,gets 3 balls,goes to the baseline and start his thing. Then the british commentators laught at the fact that soderling went to get a racket while Nadal was starting his rituals(BTW,looking at the clip again it seems to me that the umpire or someone calls out to Nadal to inform him that there is no receiver otherwise he would have gone through the motions until it was time to look up). Just to be clear I didn't approve back then and I don't approve now Nadal's comedy routine but I do think that what soderling did was unproffessional(since gamesmanship has been the key word around here) because he started this whole bit by "forgetting" that they were using new balls. Also,you have to be blind to think that soderling isn't playing mind games a bit with Nadal here,trying to get him riled up,because it was the beginning of the decider,in a match that wouldn't end because of constant delays.

    Let me put it this way: do you think Federer would walk off to get a racket while Nadal was serving? Or would Nadal do the same against Fed? When there is a certain respect among players,you don't do these sort of things.

    Clearly there is no love lost between the two and to me they were both out of line.
     

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