Nadal vs older era?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tenniskid567, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. tenniskid567

    tenniskid567 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Sandy, Utah
    How do you think those guys with one hander's would fare if they played guys like Nadal who attack with super high topspin shots to the one handed backhand? It just seems that no one used to attack it like Nadal attacks Federer with it. I just used Nadal in the title because I coudn't think of a title, and I'm not really biased one way or the other, I'm just wondering what you guys think.
     
    #1
  2. Outbeyond

    Outbeyond Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,074
    Location:
    New Joisey, USA
    You know, we could debate this kind of question endlessly. I came into tennis via McEnroe. I adored him and still am his biggest fan, but I love Nadal now, too. But even Mac admits there's no comparison. Today, players use completely different rackets, and don't forget that Big Eye (or whatever we call that thing that tells whether balls have crossed lines) has changed the game forever, as have the physiques of our newest players who seem to hit the gym as often as they hit the courts for practice.

    I don't think Mac could beat Nadal or Federer today, not a chance. But that doesn't take away from what he gave to me years ago in the late 70's and early 80's....my absolute, enduring love of tennis!
     
    #2
  3. President of Serve/Volley

    President of Serve/Volley Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    589


    Mac would beat Nadal.... Mac's volleys would give Nadal a very tough time.
     
    #3
  4. ubermeyer

    ubermeyer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,176
    Location:
    Texas
    Nadal wins
     
    #4
  5. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,492
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Back in the day there were no strings to put that massive spin on the balls.
     
    #5
  6. prosealster

    prosealster Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Messages:
    959
    if they stay back, nad will feast on their OHBH all day long...
    if they come in....they wont stand a chance against nad's passing shot...

    nad wins, no contest
     
    #6
  7. President of Serve/Volley

    President of Serve/Volley Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    589


    Pete Sampras would beat Nadal on old vintage grass 6-0, 6-0, 6-0...
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2009
    #7
  8. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,598
    Nadal wins, methinks.
     
    #8
  9. Cantankersore

    Cantankersore Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    513
    Because Sampras is well-known for frequently breaking his opponent's serve, and Nadal isn't well known for holding serve.
     
    #9
  10. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,602
    Location:
    South
    I believe that high top spin to backhand by Nadal has been over emphasized. Look at Davydenko. Yes he has two handed backhand, but he is short and yet he is not that troubled by that HIGH top spin that people repeatedly talk about here.

    Look at AO 09 final. During the whole match none of the three commentators, Pat Mac, Cahil, Gilbert, ever mentioned that Rodge was troubled by his topspin to backhand.

    I think there is a hype going on here with that Nadal high topspin to BH.
     
    #10
  11. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,492
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Hype? Have you never seen a match between a 1 hander and Nadal on a high-bouncing surface?
     
    #11
  12. wangs78

    wangs78 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,896
    Location:
    New York
    If prime Mac played prime Nadal with today's racquets, Nadal wins.

    If they played with racquets from Mac's era, Mac wins.

    Now if it was Fed playing against Mac with those old racquets, I'd have a tough time deciding.
     
    #12
  13. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,928
    Wawrinka doesn't seem bothered by it
     
    #13
  14. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,543
    Kuerten

    Kuerten is taller than Nadal or Federer. I think that height plus his great single handed backhand would have helped him handle those high bouncing balls from Nadal.
     
    #14
  15. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,602
    Location:
    South
    See, this is what I am talking about.

    Most players now have two HB. If anything one handed BH has better reach than 2HB. OP does not specify clay in his post.

    BTW, last time a one handed player against Nadal beat him on clay in Madrid, yes he has the records on his side but what it tells you is that the high top spin to BH does not determine the outcome by itself.
     
    #15
  16. Falloutjr

    Falloutjr Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    Akron, OH
    But players still figured out how to hit spins and construct points, I believe Nadal would succeed, if he didn't have that dreaded 2hbh ;)
     
    #16
  17. serve stopper

    serve stopper Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    283
    I'm gonna have to go with nadal on this one
     
    #17
  18. doom

    doom Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    268
    If you transported Nadal to the 80s-early 90s he would get killed.

    He would have to use a non babolat racket with non poly strings and play on faster surfaces against players who serve harder, hit flatter and volley more often than players today.

    If you transported any of the greats from that era to today though they would probably not do very well even if they switched equipment
     
    #18
  19. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,159
    Location:
    Toronto
    My brain hurts from wondering, So stop trying to imagine this. Nadal wins period since they never saw anything close to a topspin junkie since Borg.
     
    #19
  20. JoshDragon

    JoshDragon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,235
    Yeah right. The courts are way too slow for Mac too even have a chance today. Rafa, would slaughter Mac with his passing shots.

    It would not be a pretty sight.
     
    #20
  21. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,598
    Since then he's beaten Gasquet, Gonzalez, Blake, Robredo, Ljubicic, and Lopez.

    Maybe it wasn't on clay, but Nadal seems to play better against guys with 1HBHs

    EDIT: Nadal beat Marcos Daniel in his very next match on clay. Daniel has a 1HBH. Just a factual error, there, OddJack.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2009
    #21
  22. JoshDragon

    JoshDragon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,235
    He wouldn't be killed on clay and he'd probably win the French Open 8 times in a row.
     
    #22
  23. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,602
    Location:
    South
    The point is that Nadal seems to play better than most everyone on tour, either one handed or two. All I am saying is that too much emphasis has been given to his topspin to BH. There is simply not enough 1HB players against him to support your claim. Some people talk like Nadal invented top spin to BH on clay.

    If there is anything to emphasize endlessly about him would be his grinding, grinding, grinding. Remember he went down not because he could not top spin, but because of bad knee, bad abdominal muscle. bad joints. He simply could not chase all the balls like he did through out 2008.
     
    #23
  24. President of Serve/Volley

    President of Serve/Volley Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    589


    How about on old vintage grass 1985 or carpet or old indoor courts speed?

    Yeah, Mac would own him, any prime S/V like Edberg, Boris Becker would beat Nadal very easily on super quick surfaces.

    Becker vs Nadal on Carpet for your life? You cannot be thinking to take Nadal... Becker easily.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2009
    #24
  25. President of Serve/Volley

    President of Serve/Volley Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    589


    Except for Roger Federer.
     
    #25
  26. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    These imaginary match-ups are irrelevant because we honestly don't know how the players might have managed. Perhaps young fed or nadal wouldn't even have played tennis if they started it with a heavy wooden racket. Perhaps they would have played football instead of tennis. Why do people automatically assume that Federer would still have played like today?Perhaps he would have become a S&V'er,not a baseliner. Or perhaps Nadal would have turned out a different player because he couldn't counterpunch well with a wooden racket. According to 2/3 of the posters here out of the current crop of players today only Fed would still play well with a wooden racket which is laughable IMO.

    Oh,and can you imagine some with connors,borg's or mcenroe's drive with today's rackets? It would be quite a show. It's fun to imagine such things but don't take them too seriously.
     
    #26
  27. JoshDragon

    JoshDragon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,235
    If Nadal, was able to use his current racquet then I think he would beat Becker on the indoor courts, but if he had to use the older racquets than I agree that Becker would win.
     
    #27
  28. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,852
    Davydenko has a very good rally backhand, way better than Federer's and especially Sampras'.

    And the AO2009 was one of the best performances backhand-wise from Federer against Nadal. Usually he shanks and mistimes a lot more shots from that wing, unfortunately Federer served like crap, but that's another story.
     
    #28
  29. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,602
    Location:
    South
    Davydenko has nothing "way better" than Federer. Federer's BH, just like Nadal's top spin, has been the subject for over emphasis. Nadal's backhand, also known as two handed forehand, is one of the best, yet in every match Federer has had more BH winners than him, and of course more UE's which comes with it. When people compare BH and FH of diff. players they also should consider the style a certain player employs. Players like Murray and Nadal will always have less Errors off their BH than Federer and that comes already packaged in their games style.
    On average, 30% to 40% of strokes are played with BH. How could anybody stand at world number one with almost half of his game "way worse" than his opponent?
     
    #29
  30. Agree with this,someone cant possibly argue with this that would just be ridiculous
     
    #30
  31. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,852
    I specifically wrote "rally backhand", not the backhand as a package.

    Davydenko can't hit slices like Federer, but his rally backhand IS way better. Federer can only dream of hitting his backhand down the line like Davydenko.
    If Federer had that shot he would've probably retired this year out of boredom with 4 or 5 consecutive calender slams.

    Federer has been so successful because he was able to keep points alive extremely well off the backhand side, it allowed him to play a forehand sooner or later, either inside-out (Federer's best shot) or a regular forehand.
     
    #31
  32. JoshDragon

    JoshDragon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,235
    Borg would own Federer on clay.
     
    #32
  33. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,541
    It depends on one big thing. Is Nadal playing with equipment from their era or the other way around. If he had to play with rackets and strings from the 80's/90's, he would be hitting the fence with every one of his shots.
     
    #33
  34. Casey10s

    Casey10s Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    233
    I agree. Also, don't forget that with the head sizes being smaller than today, one couldn't hit the heavy topspin without shanking a lot of them due to catching the frames. This has been pointed out in some magazine articles.

    Take a top player from any era and drop them in at any other era when they were young and they would probably play something near the style of that time. They would not radically play at any different style except what existed for that era. My opinion is a great player is great no matter when they played. Laver, Connors, Borg, and so on would be bulkier if they grew up today and would have different styles since they would be learning the style of today's tennis. Nadal would probably be thinner and not hitting heavy topspin (due to the technology) if he played in the 70's and Laver would not be using a continental grip on forehands if he grew up in today's era.
     
    #34

Share This Page