Nadal vs Soderling 2007 Wimbledon 3rd Round

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by hondas2k, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. hondas2k

    hondas2k Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    353
    #1
  2. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,872
    Soderlin at this year would still beat Nadal, unfortunately for you.
     
    #2
  3. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Nadal at his best would destroy Soderling on any surface.
     
    #3
  4. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,872
    Except for the fact that Nadal was at his best level this year at the French open, but came up against a guy smacking 105mph FH's and BH's down the line. I assure you that soderling has @ss raped Nadal quite a few occassionas.
     
    #4
  5. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Haha you that French Open match this year was Nadal's best level. Are you serious!?! Were you dropped on the head lately.
     
    #5
  6. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Nadal still has the winning head to head with Soderling by the way. Soderling played the match of his life at Wimbledon 2007 and it was not good enough to beat Nadal even on a faster court which would supposably favor Soderling. We all saw what a healthy Nadal would do to Soderling on clay in their match earlier this year. 6-1, 6-0.
     
    #6
  7. Hello former banned troll.
    NO- Let me correct you, Soderling played the match of his life vs Nadal this year at the FO-And won in 4. At the WTF last week Soderling didnt even play that good and still convincingly beat him, you remember your last matches against someone and Sod`s last 2 matches ended with- Victory.
     
    #7
  8. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Soderling is an excellent player. However Nadal at his best is untouchable for anyone but a confident Federer, a top form Djokovic, or maybe a top Murray on hard courts. That is it. Nadal is just that great.

    The WTF this week my grandmother probably could have beaten Nadal. He was pathetic there lets face it.
     
    #8
  9. If you take a look at what happened between Soderling-Nadal at this years FO- What would Nadal do? Sod smacked the lines for nearly 4 hours, when Nadal got a chance to play he did it- Very good. There are some unbelievable points by Nadal in that match. He ran like a mad man- You dont do that being injured. He probably wasnt at his very best this year (although noone else besides Federer beat him at this years CC-tournaments).

    Yes- That was indeed bad by Nadal but Soderling still beat him easily.
     
    #9
  10. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Fair enough. I wont argue. My point is I dont expect Soderling to own Nadal in the future. Nadal will get better again and it is hard for anyone to beat him consistently. Del Potro and Djokovic I think can if they fulfill their potential as players, both are already owning Nadal on hard courts even when he is playing decently. Federer would probably have a winning head to head vs Nadal without the mental block but now with Nadal looked at as vurnerable mabye he will lose that.

    Soderling played an amazing match vs Nadal at the French this year and amazing vs everyone else except Federer in the final. He definitely deserved to be in the final and it a shame he lost all his agressiveness in that final. I am not sure if he will ever have another shot at a grand slam title so it is too bad he didnt bring his A game to that huge match for him.
     
    #10
  11. Alright, you seem to be a good objective poster- Sorry if i jumped to conclusions.
    Only time will tell what will happen in the Future, although i think Nadal will never have a year like 2008 again, and in Soderlings game there is huge room for improvment, slice,defensive,volley etc...
     
    #11
  12. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    How do you think Soderling will do next year? I was impressed with his play at the YEC. However that semifinal loss to Del Potro was dissapointing since he went up that break at the end of the 3rd and should have won that match but got so tight. It must have dissapointing for him to lose that one after such a great event, when he had the match on his racquet near the end of the 3rd set. I am wondering if he has nerve problems in big matches. He didnt play anywhere near his best in the French final vs Federer, although Federer was too good that day also.
     
    #12
  13. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    I hope Nadal can get back to his 2008 level. He is one of my favorite players. The longer he goes the more I will doubt though. He is an early bloomer but surely someone still so young can still improve his game more. Well I hope so anyway.

    I agree with you that Soderling has more obvious things he can improve. Then again some things like the volley you need a natural feel for or not, so I am not sure how easy that is to change.
     
    #13
  14. I think he will do good, he really needs to work on his slice, and his defensive game, his shot-selection and his volley.

    I think he will stay in top 10 for sure- He has basically no points at all to defend until May (FO). He can gain LOTS of points in AO, IW,Miami, MC,Rome,Madrid and so on.

    People in here are so fast to say that he is a "fluke" etc but imo he showed last week that he is anything but a fluke!

    Yes, he was up a break in the 3rd set and blew it, such a shame! But imo Davydenko would have been to good in the final, Davy totally found the zone in the Final, and as a huge Fed-fan i can even admit that he played a lot better vs DelPo than vs Federer in the SF.
     
    #14
  15. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    7,475
    Location:
    South of London, west of Moscow
    Do you actually watch these matches? I have watched that match twice. There was nothing wrong with Nadal, he was just outplayed. Nadal was in great shape, he didn't even need to use tape on his knees once if I remember.

    Again did you see this match?
    The score line sure is a beat-down but it doesn't tell the story. Even Nadal admitted that the actually match play was very close, with Soderling having a load of break points. The score was an anomaly and Soderling proved that at Roland Garros.

    I don't know why Nadal fans can't just watch the matches and give some credit to Soderling for once.
     
    #15
  16. I see.
    Well, only time will tell, hardworkers and baseliners like him usually peak very early though (Wilander, Chang,Hewitt,Borg etc) but if there is anyone who can proove people wrong it is-Nadal. But imo he really needs to get a much bigger 1st serve and start to play a lot more offensively- He needs more free points in his game.
     
    #16
  17. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Yeah I think your accessment makes sense. It will be interesting to see what progress he can make on improving his weakenesses like you pointed out. It will be very interesting to see how he does early next year. The funny thing is clay is his weakest surface probably and that is where has the big result to defend. Still he should do well enough in the first 5 months of next year that will stay in the top 10 even if he doesnt defend or better his French Open final result. Doing that on clay when he really is a fast courter shows he is a good all surface player too which is a good thing.

    I dont think he will fall out of the top 10 though. I think Verdasco, Roddick, and Tsonga are the most likely ones too.
     
    #17
  18. GrafisGOAT

    GrafisGOAT Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    I think he also needs to dump Tony. I think Tony is holding him back from making those changes in his game he needs to make, plus is part of his dumb scheduling. Those guys you mentioned burnt out around 25 which Nadal isnt yet, which is the good news. He really began to peak early though, around 18.
     
    #18
  19. That would probably only do his game good imo- They have been together for so long-Toni cant possibly show him anything that will make him improve- And yes, the schedueling needs some serious work.
    But with a different style of play Nadal could probably play until he is 29-30 and be a top contender on slow surfaces- Noone should have to burn out at 25.
    I think (so far) he peaked at 22, in 2009, but we will have to see. The speculating is fun though.
     
    #19
  20. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    31,165
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Nadal was at his best in this year's FO?
    Put down the crack pipe and step away from the computer [​IMG]
     
    #20
  21. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,064
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Only against Hewitt in the third round was Nadal near his best in this year's French Open. Against Daniel in the first round, I was concerned by how lacklustre he was, and I still wasn't happy with Nadal's form during his second round win over Gabashvili. Against Hewitt though, he was mostly brilliant apart from a little lapse for 3 games in the second set. Just as I was convinced that vintage Nadal was back, he suffers a shocking loss to Soderling in the fourth round.

    Against Soderling, I couldn't believe how Nadal was on the defensive time and time again. Nadal has nearly always dictated a match on clay against anybody, but in that match, he was being dictated to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
    #21
  22. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,064
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    I have both matches on DVD. The first set of their Rome match was indeed very close with a lot of deuce games, but the second set was mostly a beatdown because Soderling was demoralised by not taking advantage of his opportunities. There was that shambles with the umpire in the second set where Soderling deliberately pointed at the wrong mark when a ball was called out and the umpire also got the wrong mark when he jumped out the chair, cue a few minutes of absolute farce between Soderling and the officials.
     
    #22
  23. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,493
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Soderling has improved his forehand a lot since 2007.
     
    #23
  24. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,022
    Soderling could of won that match in 2007. It just to show you how Soderling is such a bad of matchup for Rafa in any surface.

    I don't think Rafa wants any part of Soderling in the future.
     
    #24
  25. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,064
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Nadal could have won in straight sets. But anyway, he eventually won the match that stretched over 5 days, despite some people saying that he would lose as the match went into the 5th set.
     
    #25
  26. TENNISSLAVE

    TENNISSLAVE Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    104
    I agree. His form was weird all summer and onwards.I think the guys fatigued and above all depressed. His eyes are dead.
     
    #26
  27. President

    President Legend

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,960
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    It was a great match. Soderling actually won more points overall than Nadal. I first became his fan at that time, although he has never pleased me with his results until this year ;)
     
    #27
  28. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    9,584
    Location:
    South
    I agree, Soderling would stay competitive but would not win a match against Nadal if he's at his best. On Clay, hard or grass.
    The problem is we dont know if Nadal will ever go back to his best again. And that's what make 2010 even more interesting.
     
    #28
  29. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,493
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Don't think so. Obviously Nadal is a better player than Soderling, but the guy is NOT a good match up for him. This is exemplified at the FO this year. Nadal in 2007 at Wimby - that's pretty close to his best. Generally if you can take someone to 5 sets then you can definitely beat them too.

    IMO (at their absolute best):
    Clay: Nadal
    Slow HC: Nadal
    Grass: Nadal
    Fast HC (outdoor): toss up
    Fast HC (indoor): Soderling​
     
    #29
  30. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,064
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    You can't use that 2007 Wimbledon match as evidence like that, considering the circumstances of Nadal and Soderling going on and off the court 11 times. The match was absolutely crazy, and Nadal was increasingly desperate to finish it off as soon as possible.
     
    #30
  31. forthegame

    forthegame Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,495
    Location:
    Intercontinental
    I cannot believe how Soderling gets the time to take such a huuuuge swing at the ball!
    Even on fast HCs.
    Soder has improved quite a lot. He now believes, that is where tennis players become dangerous.
    Nadal has to start believing again, as the Fed had to.
     
    #31
  32. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,953
    Location:
    New York
    I agree, the first 2 rounds looked horrendous. I even posted on this board that I found the tennis Rafa played completely unrecognizable and WAY below average. I didn't know there was a specific problem with his knees, I just thought he might be worn out from overplaying and pushing his limits in Madrid. Then the Hewitt match rekindled my hopes, Rafa seemed to hit longer, cleaner and more aggressively. I now wish that match had never happened because honestly if Rafa had played Sod right after his first 2 rounds, the result wouldn't have surprised me one bit, I would have fully expected it :cry: That's how off Rafa's game was!
    What hurt the most is how a lot of people acted as if Soderling had beaten usual clay court Rafa when Rafa was truly a shadow of himself that tournament. Sad.
     
    #32
  33. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,953
    Location:
    New York

    That is one insane statement! Nadal was nowhere near his best at RG 2009.
     
    #33
  34. President

    President Legend

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,960
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    He wasn't at his very best for sure, but he didn't have a horrendous performance against Soderling by any means. I would say that his level in that match was about the same as his level vs Federer in Madrid. Definitely he played a lot better in that match than in any match he has played since his comeback (except maybe vs Tsonga in Paris).
     
    #34
  35. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    Nadal was 100% at the FO. He was just beaten by a superior player who proved his dominance by raping Nadal again at the WTF. Deal with it Nadaltards.
     
    #35
  36. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,953
    Location:
    New York
    In that case, who was the guy who "raped" Soderling in Rome 2009 6-1, 6-0 ? ( THAT is ownage by the way, not a 4 set win or a tight match).
    He sure looked like Rafa from where I was...
     
    #36
  37. imjimmy

    imjimmy New User

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    73
    Anyone who thinks Rafa was 100% at the FO 2009 isn't paying attention: after this, he immediately withdrew from the biggest event of his year through injuries which for a long time were all too evident..
     
    #37
  38. President

    President Legend

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,960
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Did I say he was 100%?

    He was injured, but not so severely that he was playing terribly. I don't even know if injury is a proper term for Nadal's affliction, considering that he has had knee problems for much of his career and will continue to do so. The tendonitis just flared up at that point, thats all.
     
    #38
  39. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,022
    I just don’t get it with you guys.

    Rafa gets all the credit when he win, but when he loses, there’s an excuse.

    Rafa is better than Soderling in Rome, but it was a reverse in Paris. Simple as that.
     
    #39
  40. AM95

    AM95 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,245
    not to troll..or anything of the sort but:

    dont you think that his amazing year was contributed to by Federer's mono. i mean in all honesty, Nadal could barely finnish the job against Federer in Wimby (5 MP i think..) and the FO match was one-sided b/c imo..Fed wasn't moving well all tournament. im not trying to take anything away from Rafa, two GS semi's and to GS win's+a handfull of MS titles and the Olympics is amazing, but i think that in 2008 rafa benefited from Fed's misfortune, and in 2009 Roger benefited from Rafa's misfotune.
     
    #40
  41. AM95

    AM95 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,245
    well put
    10char
     
    #41
  42. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    Rome 2009 was BEFORE FO 2009 and WTF 2009. The last one to get raped was Nadal. #2 player getting destroyed by not even a top 5. Pathetic.
     
    #42
  43. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    Hm so it's automatically pathetic if a Top 5 player gets defeated by someone who's outside of that group?

    What about Fed's losses this year? I would argue 2nd round in a masters event is a much worse result than 4th round at a Slam, right? (Paris, L to Bennetau in Rd 2 [effectively first round cuz he got to Rd 2 by bye])

    And just so I'm neutral in keeping this thread from being a Fed v Nadal argument, how bout Del Po's loss to Vasselin @ Tokyo in Rd 1? and better yet, Del Po's loss to Hewitt, who is clearly ranked outside the Top 5, at Wimby Rd 2?

    Let's throw Djoko into the mix, with his losses to Haas at Halle & Wimby and his loss to Kohschreiber @ FO.

    For completeness, Murray lost to Stepanek, Cilic, Gonzalez, Monaco, etc.

    What am I getting at?

    >>> The rank of the player defeating someone else doesn't always matter. Remember a relative stranger named Nadal beating a # 1 Federer at Miami in 04?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
    #43
  44. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    I agree with you actually. I'm just counteracting all of the bogus Nadal was injured/tired scenarios against Soderling. When in fact he lost fair and square and in the last 2 meetings, Soderling is clearly the better player. The one time was not a fluke.
     
    #44
  45. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    Soderling has to beat Nadal on clay again to prove his worth and prove that it wasn't a fluke.In fact I think that the only player who beat nadal twice on clay was federer. Beating Nadal indoors is nothing special,I can name at least 10 players who did it in the last few years. Yeah,Nadal did not have any physical problems in RG,that's why he called it quits in the next 3 events(queens,wimbledon,dc):rolleyes:
    His loss at his most successful slam affected him so much that he decided to pull out of queens,the only grass warm-up and out of his most beloved tournament,wimbledon, Yeah,great logic there:rolleyes: This was all just a lie to cover up for his soderling loss,right? He sacrificed the nr.1 spot and defending the wimbledon title just to have an excuse for this loss,right?

    Nadal beat soderling 6-1,6-0 in quite a tight match in rome,and no,I am not being sarcastic. Am I supposed to think that in the space of 1 month soderling went from being bageled and breadsticked to giving nadal his only RG defeat? No one improves that much that fast,not even federer or nadal. Soderling played the same match,same strategy as he did in Rome but Nadal declined by that point and if Nadal had been lucky he probably could have made 1-2 more rounds until he had met a top10 player who would have escorted him out.

    To quote Nadal "I wasn't surprised by the way he played cause I know how he plays(what I said above) but I was surprised by my own level of play".
     
    #45
  46. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    He already proved it wasn't a fluke by beating Nadal in 4 sets. Clearly Nadal took a set off him, showing that it was still a fight...and the 4th set ended in a tie break. Soderling outplayed Nadal, as much as I hate to say it it is the truth.

    Nadal was not playing his 100% at FO. I think there's unanimity there. But at the end of the day Soderling outplayed Nadal and the better man won. And yes, sometimes you CAN improve in a short amount of time. In fact, it doesnt' even have to be improvement.

    Consider this: Soderilng had a 4-0 record going against a Nadal that had everything to lose; Soderling himself had nothing to lose. Hence, he goes for his best game on every single rally, and somehow him playing his best is actually good enough to beat a seasoned clay-courter! Nadal beats down players on clay by taking away their confidence slowly; that never happened, and Soderling was only able to build momentum off his go-for-broke tactics. I heard somewhere tennis is 90% mental...it would certainly fit this case study.
     
    #46
  47. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    It doesn't matter because when Soderling does beat Nadal again on clay you Nadaltards will simply come up with a different excuse.
     
    #47
  48. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,409
    The difference between Federer and Nadal is this: Federer had a crushing defeat at the hands of Djokovic at the Australian in 08, proving that young up-and-comers were finally catching up with Federer. Then he had a string of losses, including four in a row to Nadal - two masters finals, a humiliating defeat in the French final, and a heartbreaking loss at Wimbledon. What does Federer do? He turns around and wins the U.S. Open.

    Nadal, on the other hand, has one big loss to Soderling at the French and goes M.I.A. for the rest of the season. What mental strength he has, people!
     
    #48
  49. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,022
    I've said before. Roger was once in a drought where many people have written him off. They said he was finish, never again to win another slam or even reclaiming the #1 ranking. However, Roger proved them wrong. He came back strong after being knocked down, fight like a gladiator and reclaimed his throne back. Order has been restored!

    Now that Nadal has been down and out after being severely beaten, it's his turn to stand up and fight. Let see what kind of a gladiator he his(with smaller muscles). He's got 10 months to climb back to the top.
     
    #49
  50. GOATPARERA

    GOATPARERA Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2009
    Messages:
    178
    Did you mean 'worst level' when you wrote 'best level' or are you for real?

    Because this year is easily the worst level of claycourt tennis Nadal has ever played (including his first year on tour).
     
    #50

Share This Page