Nadal vs Soderling at the French Open

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Agassifan, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. Agassifan

    Agassifan Hall of Fame

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    .. there doesn't seem to be a single video of watchable quality on youtube (the couple that are of good quality are 2 minutes long). Anyone..?
     
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  2. crawl4

    crawl4 Rookie

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    #2
  3. TheFifthSet

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  4. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    Good post. There's absolutely nothing watchable on Youtube (run by Rafatards? :razz: ) regarding this match.
     
    #4
  5. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    #5
  6. Agassifan

    Agassifan Hall of Fame

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    WOW.. thanks. I still can't believe that youtube doesn't have anything decent on this match
     
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  7. wyutani

    wyutani Hall of Fame

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    lol, who wants to see nadal lose?

    can i DL this?
     
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  8. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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  9. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

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    I uploaded the Federer vs Soderling final highlights on my youtube account, but it got taken down by the French Tennis Federation, so yeah they don't want the videos up on youtube, it's all copyright, nothing to do with fed/*******s
     
    #9
  10. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thanks for the link.

    This is just perfect. For anybody who missed it back in May, this match was all Soderling, not b/c Nadal wasn't 100%. There wasn't any problem with his movements, he was lightning fast just as in any of his previous matches. Soderling was giving so much problem with his heavy groundstrokes. Nadal always win the war from the baseline, but that day Soderling was just another bigger beast. For the first time Nadal found himself that he was losing to a war of attrition in Paris. The comfort of playing great defense, and consistent to outlast his opponent physicially isn't there anymore b/c Soderling didn't allow him. Soderling's power put too much pressure on him. He was hoping that Soderling would slow down as the match progress, but Soderling was focus, and aggressive from beginning to end. He even serve better, getting free points, and crushed any balls that came back short. Obviously, Nadal came into the match with supreme confidence, but only to find fustration when he couldn't find a way to stop Soderling's ongoing assault and sheer determination.

    I think it's about time for some of you to give Soderling his due. Nadal this time finally met his match.
     
    #10
  11. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    He met his "match" which he beat in Rome 6-1,6-0 with soderling even trying to cheat in the second set. Nadal didn't come at his best physically into RG 09',that's the truth. Numerous commentators said that Nadal played enough just to get through and couldn't bring the goods on that particular day and Soderling took advantage of that. Out of those observers I'll only mention McEnroe,Navratilova and Will Hamilton(FYB). It's the same situation like Federer/Djokovic in AO last year where even the most blind/biased tennis fan could see that Federer didn't look great physically(sweating a lot and he seemed less agile). Props to both Djoker and Soderling but Fed/Nadal weren't at their best that day.

    I know some of you think this is taking credit away from Soderling. That's BS in my opinion. How is stating the obvious truth taking anything away from Soderling? The "case" for those who say Nadal was looking great in RG is the match against "clay legend" hewitt who did absolutely nothing to trouble Nadal on that day. The scoreline is too rough,it should have been something like 6-3,6-3,6-3 but either way Hewitt is past his prime and clay isn't exactly his things. The same guys who point out the hewitt match forget that Nadal had 2 way too close sets with another "Clay legend",31 year old Daniel,and if the brazilian had some cojones he would have taken at least a set(he had plenty BP's in the first). The Nadal of 05-08 would have handed at least a bagel or breadstick to Daniel. Oh,and nevermind that Nadal lost a set on clay in an exo against nr.109 in the world. That surely doesn't count,right?

    You have no idea what you are talking about when you point out Nadal's game on clay. Nadal is most aggresive on clay and then on grass. Yes,he has time to defend on clay and he uses defense in the tough moments but on clay Nadal is the aggresor because he moves very well on this surface and has time to unleash his spinny shots with which he moves his opponents around,always forcing them to hit another shot. Here,Nadal can be the aggressor where he is standing at the baseline topspinning away or whether he is making shots on the run chasing after some ball. Nadal's problem was that he was hampered by his knees(went to the doctor after Madrid) and by the fact that he had a similar playing day to that when he faced daniel. Only Soderling is much much better than Daniel and actually took his chances.

    Nadal overplayed in the clay season but unlike 08' he overplayed while having pain in his knees,which caused him to arrive in RG 09' not at his best physically. Seeing how much Nadal's game relies on his physique it affected him and his game.No way is healthy Nadal playing this close with Daniel or losing to nr.109 in the world,not to mention losing to Soderling which he beat a couple of weeks ago in Rome.Although I have to be fair and say that the 6-0,6-1 is misleading,Soderling played very well(most games were close) but Nadal played on of his better matches on clay that day and won convincingly.If Nadal had showed up in the Rome match like in RG he would have been straight setted.

    Even with Soderling playing great and Nadal average,the last three sets were still very close and Nadal actually had chances to make it to five sets. You can imagine what would have happened if Nadal was in fighting form in RG. He probably would have won in four.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
    #11
  12. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    great post ! :)
     
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  13. Adi-das

    Adi-das Banned

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    fourth set tie break Soderling was hitting big. And i mean BIG!
     
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  14. wyutani

    wyutani Hall of Fame

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    no one answering my question. how to download this?!
     
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  15. Great post, totally agree!
    And to "namelessone": If you know ANYTHING about tennis you would easily see that Soderling had a totally different tactics going into their FO-meeting, and of course he had a day where "everything worked" and he was hitting the lines all the time.
     
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  16. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Great post.

    Soderling played great, no doubt about it, but there were factors as factors exist in every given situation.
     
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  17. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Oh yeah,"totally different tactics":):):) Are you kidding me? Soderling's tactics were the same as in RG:use the fact that you have more time to wind up your shots(soderling needs time to wind up his shots,just like Nadal)and pound the crap out of the ball.And the faster courts of this year's RG helped Soderling more than they did Nadal. And again,he did play very well in the Rome but there was one major difference:Nadal wasn't as far along into his tendinitis problems like in RG(Nadal had played with pain since MC and by RG he had managed to play through 4 tournaments with pain in his knees) and more importantly,Nadal actually had some length on his shots this time.

    Most people just look at the scoreline of the Rome match and say it was a beatdown but almost all the games were close. If he would have played anyone else (except nadal/fed) out of the top10 he would have won on that day. But Nadal,who played average this clay season(I'm talking about game not results),had one of his best days and defeated soderling.

    In RG,Nadal was the one having problems dictating play while in Rome Soderling found himself more on the run than Nadal. Why? Length of Nadal's shot. Soderling,as he himself said,went on court thinking it was practice and just pounded away,just like in the Rome match. But this time Nadal couldn't respond as well for whatever reasons and had to run more which is exactly what he didn't need after playing 4 tournaments with pain. So with Soderling dictating play and forcing Nadal to run and play short balls it was obvious that Nadal would lose or at least have a very hard time winning,at least for people who watched the match. Many times the match looked like a Nadal match would look on HC with one guy hitting flat off Nadal's short shots(and in turn forcing him to him more short shots) and Nadal running like crazy to reach those shots. Not how Nadal plays on clay and trust me,he has been pushed by other guys on clay,see djoker/fed the last few years,fed even winning a set by 6-1 in one of their finals or bagelling Nadal in hamburg.

    Watch Will Hamilton's analysis on the match at hand on the FYB site. I think his objective point of view will enlighten you. Fact is Nadal had an off day,didn't play his best and soderling was great that day. And even so 3 of the sets were tightly contested. That should tell you something.
     
    #17
  18. big bang

    big bang Hall of Fame

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    another great post:) you are one of few on this site that actually understand Nadal´s problems this season, nice to see..
    is *******s the same as retards? you guys keep saying Nadal lost because Soderling played great.. he did play his best, but no way Nadal would ever lose a match agains him on clay if he where fit. at the same time you say Nadal was juiced and got suspended before wimby.. so what you are saying is that Soderling beat a healthy Nadal on juice at FO?? please grow up!!!
     
    #18
  19. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    whatever match you guys want, googlçe El rincon del tenis...
     
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  20. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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  21. You have the gift of writing, thats good for you.
    I will stand by with what i said, he changed up his tactics a bit before the FO-match and what he really did was executing his tactics 100%, whereas in Rome it didnt work at all, if you look at the statistics from Rome you will see that Soderling had tons of gamepoints and most games were deuce, he just couldnt win the most important points obviously.
    Whats Fed got too do with this?
    LOOK AT YOUTUBE for gods sake the kid is running around the court like a ****ing maniac!! Tendonitis my ass!! "I-hate-soderling-and-cant-stand-losing-syndrome?? Yes, more likely.
     
    #21
  22. wyutani

    wyutani Hall of Fame

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    #22
  23. crawl4

    crawl4 Rookie

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    Why don't we agree that Soderling played really well and Nadal was also not 100%, thus contributing to his loss. The thing that gets me is many players in grandslams, master or any event have injuries or something that prevents them from playing 100% and in many cases we never here of this injuries so why dont we just leave it at, Soderling beat Nadal fair and square.

    :mrgreen:
     
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  24. Yes, he did!!
    And if Nadal steps out on court (which he did, right Nad-tards) then he is 100% fit for fight! Or else he should go do something else
     
    #24
  25. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    wyutani, Learn to make use of google. Google is like an oracle, you ask a question and if possible answers/solutions exist Google will list the links to them.

    On the Google home page you type in('ask your question') something like

    How to download video from vodpod.com

    Then click any links shown to see if they do what you want.


    Sometimes rephrasing the question can yield better results.
     
    #25
  26. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Myself and a lot of other forum members thank you for this great site. It is really hard to find full matches online for download,especially older ones.
     
    #26
  27. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    well.. thank you for your kind words, but i must say that i am not responsible for that blog, although i have contributed for it.

    it's an amazing place...
     
    #27
  28. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Well that's exactly what I was saying but somehow people ignore that. My point was that if Nadal came physically good into RG like in 05-08,we would have had a much better chance of winning it. I can't say if he would have won it because I am not all knowing,but I know this:no way is Nadal losing exo's to nr.109 in the world before RG,having trouble for 2 sets with 31 year old Daniel or nearly getting breadsticked by soderling(who had no other great claycourt results up until his match with Nadal)in the first set if he is healthy at the beginning of the competition. Not to mention arriving late on easy balls or missing easy shots,especially since he is a percentage player and rarely misses,unless he is forced to.

    My statements about Nadal's physical problems and form are true for all the rounds he played in RG 09',not just the Soderling match. I watched and cringed as he had trouble for 2 sets with Daniel(again a 31-year old with a one-handed BH,Nadal should have eaten him up),he played a bit better against gabashvili but the russian didn't trouble him at all,same for hewitt who didn't seem that confident against Nadal(I though Nadal played above average but everybody was praising him which I thought was weird,probably has to do with the name of the opponent) and then we all know what happened with soderling.

    And I don't see why some posters take my statements about Soderling taking advantage of Nadal's problems so personally. It's true and it's not like Nadal hasn't done the same on several occasions when his opponents weren't at their best physically.Only some players can mask this by playing shorter points thus giving themselves better odds but playing like this can be problematic for grinders.
     
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  29. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    hey man, i'm just coming back from your country... really great ! [​IMG]
    and i have to say portuguese people are amazingly gentle... :)

    (and pasteis de belem were good too, yes) ;)
     
    #29
  30. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Soderling was also injured in that match.
     
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  31. wyutani

    wyutani Hall of Fame

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    hes injured too? is the umpire or the ball boys injured as well?

    wot about the camera man? :confused:
     
    #31
  32. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    Nope. Soderling and Nadal were the only ones injured that day.
     
    #32
  33. wyutani

    wyutani Hall of Fame

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    tried that man, it obviously didnt work, thats why i bothered to ask. im still goggling navarro and dent's US open match.

    and im using the thesaurus for aid too.
     
    #33
  34. AAAA

    AAAA Hall of Fame

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    It's worth a try. Usually something appropriate turns up but no always.
     
    #34
  35. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    not sure about the rest of the people you mentioned, but Soderling was injured in the match against Nadal at the French this year.
     
    #35
  36. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    Dude... how dare you did not drop me a note...:(

    where did you go?
     
    #36
  37. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    You act as if Nadal was struggling against the mediocre players in his 1st 3 matches this year. The fact is he went on to straight set all of them, that doesn't say anything about him struggling. Daniel could only won 55% on his 1st serve while facing 11 break points, that doesn't say much about him troubling nadal. All of his 1st 3 matches in the previous years wasn't a killer opponents either, and he straight set them too(except 2006). In fact, I would say Nadal struggled against Mathieu in the 3rd round 2006 when he got his serve broken SIX times. I can say 2009 Nadal would of straight set Mathieu.

    Here's the number of Nadal's serve getting broken in his 1st 3 rounds:
    2009 3, 0, 1...4 totals
    2008 2, 1, 1...4 totals
    2007 3, 2, 0...5 totals
    2006 2, 0, 6...8 totals
    2005 0, 2, 2...4 totals

    Is nadal 2009 paled in comparison to 2005-08 the way you put it? Nahhhh.
     
    #37
  38. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    If you saw Nadal play in 05-09 you would see the difference in his first matches at RG. The nr. of breaks,MP's and other statistics don't always tell the story of a match. Nadal missed so many easy balls in the Daniel match,it was astounding,but in a bad way. And I'll tell you again,Daniel is a 31 year old player with a one-handed BH and I don't have to tell how Rafa handles himself against a certain,much more talented,player with a one-handed BH on clay. Daniel did nothing but pound the ball back and Nadal had trouble for about 2 sets and if the brazilian actually had some cojones he could have stole one set. Nadal played marginally better in the gabashvili and hewitt matches but I wasn't impressed with his level. Nadal can play much much better on clay. Even his junior,2005 level,was better than his 2009 level.

    Nadal has been pushed at RG before but he has always come out on top. I didn't think he could keep this up forever but I don't think it's a lie to say that Nadal of the first 3 rounds in RG 09' was a mediocre clay court player,unlike the Nadal of RG 05-08,but he couldn't raise his game either due to lack of health because of knees or because of a lack of form. I said it before,even if he got by Soderling,he wouldn't have made finals playing like this and davydenko would have given him fits in this condition. Sometimes you need the luck of the draw. Look at shanghai where Rafa is playing sub-average tennis but delpo/soderling/cilic got kicked out and his opponent in the quarter retired. He has the real possibility of reaching a masters final without facing any tough opponents and while playing crappy tennis. In RG,after third round,while playing average tennis he would have faced soderling-davydenko-gonzales/murray-Federer. Not an easy draw for a guy not at his best.
     
    #38
  39. bangchu

    bangchu Semi-Pro

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    You even mentioned it, the reason Nadal lost was because he forgot his juice. Deal with it and shut up!
     
    #39
  40. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Same for Sodelring, but he made it to the finals even playing at less than 100% and injured.
     
    #40
  41. bangchu

    bangchu Semi-Pro

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    Injured Soderling beat injured / juice-missing Nadal ------> Healthy Soderling beats healthy + juice-drinking Nadal.
     
    #41
  42. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    It's the juice that the containers need to be aligned with a source of light (sun, stadium lights etc) to keep it's potency. Unfortunately Nadal didn't know it's potency is diminished if he wears a pink shirt and/or when he is playing against tall players with 2 handed backhands.
     
    #42
  43. Cyan

    Cyan Hall of Fame

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    Nadal was going to lose this yr at RG it was written in the stars. No player has ever won 5 FO in a row, in any era. No male player or female player... While the other 3 slams(AO, W, USO), some players have even won them like 7 yrs in a row in the amateur era but not the FO. It is a curse, and Nadal was going to lose this yr. Because Borg couldn't win 5 FO in a row and neither could Lenglen. Swodeling was just there at the right time. But Nadal was going to lose this yr at the FO. Period.
     
    #43
  44. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    :lol::lol:
     
    #44
  45. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

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    HOw come Nadal didn't call for a trainer if his knees were bothering him so much? Like at W07?
     
    #45
  46. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Because he was told by his doctors the new ground-breaking treatment for knee injuries is to play thru pain/injury. Which explains why he was on a practice court during Wimbledon (while injured), and why he played doubles as well as singles on hardcourt when he came back from "injury".
     
    #46
  47. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    sorry, i posted a message here on the forum a bit before going (a last minute organisation, as often with me...) but you obviously missed it. :? shame on me, i should have sent you a private message instead...

    we went in many places from the north to the south !
    in a short way, here were the night stops: braganca, chaves, porto, povao dao (viseu), tomar, lisboa, monchique, tavira, evora.

    maybe i can tell you more "off-forum" ? i'm afraid i would be suspected of a sort of "train interference" ;) if i start to write pages about my holidays in this thread... :p
     
    #47
  48. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    He plays his whole career with taped knee's then takes it off when they get injured? Is it bad for you or something?
     
    #48
  49. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

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    After re-watching this match I change my verdict. It's hardly possible for Nadal (with his playing style in general) to play ANY better than he did against Soderling. Nadal relies on:

    1) Outmaneuvering the opponent from the baseline.
    2) Getting a short ball.
    3) Putting it away.

    When he got the short ball, he almost ALWAYS put it away as he normally does. Soderling just barely gave him any of those. He went for big shots, and it paid off more often than not.

    Soderling's rally ground strokes were a foot from the lines and ~90 mph. Yeah, Nadal is slower than 90 mph, but he was very fast in that match by human (not ball) standards. Anyone who thinks that Rafa wasn't moving well is delusional in my opinion.

    Nadal was playing LIGHTS OUT tennis at the beginning of the 3rd set. Incredible stuff. You just watch what kind of plays Soderling came up with and tell me who could do anything to stop that from yielding success. NOBODY.

    Actually, Nadal made the same tactical error that Federer made at the USO against Del Potro. He relied too much on his defense. He had great success when he was the one moving Soderling around aggressively and controlling the points.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
    #49
  50. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Nadal can definitely improve the depth of his shots.

    Watch any match Nadal loses, and I can guarantee that his groundies fall way too short.

    These loopy topspin shots that fall usually a couple of feet behind service lines are now getting some of these tall power players with consistent groundies licking their chops, as they can simply step in a few feet inside the baseline and attack those.

    Nadal has to hit his shots deeper unless he is going for sharp angles.
     
    #50

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