Nadal wasn't at his best

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by roysid, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. roysid

    roysid Professional

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    Though I am very happy with the result, I must say Nadal looked sluggish to me.
    He was much more competitive in 2006, 2007 and last year (though tired).
     
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  2. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Did Nadal ever lose a match at his best? No? Then obviously the mere fact that he lost already tells us all we need to know.
     
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  3. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    I don't think anyone in the top 3 has lost a match when 100%

    Fed's back hurt against berdych, He mentioned the other day how he hurt his wrist against Tsonga before the Djokovic semi.

    We already know Nadal's story.

    All of these players are unbeatable in top form. :D
     
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  4. monfed

    monfed Guest

    :lol:

    10excuses
     
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  5. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    I agree-Nadal is undefeated when he wins.
     
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  6. nereis

    nereis Semi-Pro

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    Nadal lost because Federer was able to do what Nadal does to him on clay, break down the backhand. Or didn't anyone notice that instead of swinging away at backhands crosscourt he was rolling them deep or slicing to the Nadal backhand?
     
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  7. monfed

    monfed Guest

    And Nadal fans whine about Djokovic's injuries. :lol:
     
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  8. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Hardly news, hardly Fed's problem.

    Nadal once again looking very subpar in WTF a la 2009.
     
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  9. ImAGrinch

    ImAGrinch New User

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    Surely Nadal did not play as well as he has in the past or will in the future. But that's just part of the game. If Nadal was able to play at 100% of his ability every time he stepped foot on a court, then maybe he'd be the GOAT one day. But the truth is nobody can sustain that level of play because it takes its tool on a player.

    Fed's consistency over the years in staying injury free and playing at a top level most of the time has far outpaced Nadal, which is why Fed's stats are so incredible. Too many people have short memories and think one match tells you how the player is going to play in every tournament thereafter. This is a good victory for Fed, but it doesn't mean Nadal won't bounce back at the AO better than we've ever seen.
     
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  10. rafan

    rafan Hall of Fame

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    Tipsaravich could have beaten Nadal last night judging by the way he is playing at the moment. I am not saying Fed did not play really well but Rafa just wasn't there at all
     
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  11. TennisLovaLova

    TennisLovaLova Hall of Fame

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    Nadal wasn't at his best.
    ATP decided to give RF only half the points of yesterday's match
     
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  12. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    Im sorry but did everyone posting here actually watch the final last night?

    Yes Nadal was not at his best.

    Federer was playing 100% GOAT mode last night. Everything was on: forehand, backhand, serve, on the run, slice, etc..... Fed was just in the zone.

    Look at the match stats, winner to UE ratio for Fed was unreal. Nadals post match comments even concur that Fed was just playing too good. Nadal tried to be more aggressive but it just led to more UE on his part.
     
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  13. corners

    corners Legend

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    I'm a *******, but it was clear that Roger was playing very well and Rafa was not. Personally, I think something is wrong with Rafa. Could be his knees, his feet, his head or his heart. But I sense he's at some kind of turning point we'll find out about later.

    It was fun to watch Fed dominate his old rival, but also kind of sad. I suppose some Rafa fans felt the same way after 08 French final.
     
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  14. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Thank you for your honesty!

    Some others could learn from your example...
     
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  15. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    The sad part is, after watching bits and pieces from all the matches so far, the weakest guys so far seem to be Rafa and Fish.
     
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  16. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

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    If Federer beats anyone, that person clearly is not at his best. Also, shows what a weak era this is if the world #4 is bageling the #2.
     
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  17. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Dramatic much? Nobody is saying that,but the fact is Nadal looked like a shell of himself out there. How in the world some of you *******s can sit there and act like Nadal played his best and Fed was just too good is nothing but bs.
     
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  18. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

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    Absolutely agree. The logic is infallible -- tennis was at its zenith when Hewitt and Agassi were cleaning up Fed from 2000-2003, then from 2004-2007 it reached its nadir.

    And Nadal is not even close to his best even when he is winning 3 Slams a year. We'll know Nadal is at his best when he bagels and breadsticks everyone, every single match and finishes the calendar year 100-0, no ?
     
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  19. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

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    So, which ******* claimed that Nadal was at his best ?

    On an unrelated topic, do you think Fed was at his best during AO09/Wimb 08 ?
     
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  20. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    But the same can be said for Federer's loss to Nadal at W 2008 and the AO 2009 where Federer clearly was not the player he was in his prime between 2004-2007. That is how it goes in tennis, but a win is still a win no matter what and Federer got the win over Nadal last night just as Nadal did over Federer in the two tournaments I mentioned above.
     
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  21. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    LOL, I did not even see your post until I just posted my post and then looked up and saw we basically said the exact same thing! Great minds! :)
     
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  22. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Hey Senti, Sunny Deol is sitting around somewhere in London and wants to know if your friend Maria Rafael is still around.
     
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  23. corners

    corners Legend

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    I wrote above that Nadal was not at his best. But Federer playing like that could and probably would beat anyone, including Nadal at his best, especially on this surface. But Nadal just didn't look good, IMHO.
     
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  24. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    None to my knowledge but they were saying that he wasn't "that bad". The man hit 4 winners in 15 games but he wasn't "that bad" cause hey, 73% first serve amirite?

    I find that hilarious. Nadal played almost as bad as in the Fish match but Fish is Fish and Fed is Fed. Hence the beatdown.
     
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  25. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Do you count Nadal among those *******s? Because he said he didn't played badly after the match :)

    Anyway I may think Nadal just had a bad day which coupled with Fed playing great resulted in a beatdown however honestly why should I care? Fed sure as heck wasn't at his best either in some of his matches against Nadal( especially since 2008 ) yet H2H is rubbed on our (Fed fans) noses daily by the resident Nadal fanboys(and Sampras fans pretending to be Nadal fans).

    This time Nadal got his ass kicked by Fed for a change, you're just have to deal with it (considering how rarely that happens in Fedal match-up that shouldn't be that hard), Fed fans have no obligation to accept anything about Nadal being below his best, tired, rusty, in decline, sick etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
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  26. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    I agree. It is hard for Nadal to look good when somebody who he beat multiple times is doing the exact tactic he used to pick on over and over again, not knowing what else to do because he has a relatively limited skill set.
     
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  27. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    So you're blaming Fed fans for saying the same thing Nadal did in press conference ?
     
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  28. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    It is not about obligation. So what if Nadal was not as his best in that match. Federer also was not at his best when Nadal won W2008 and AO 2009. It works both ways but at the end of the day it does not matter. A win is a win.
    Nadal always has some kind of injury or disease excuse. ALWAYS.

    The fact is Nadal has looked terrible in the past 8 months. To me he has declined and has done nothing to fix any problem which will enable him to beat Djokovic in the future. That is the issue now. Federer's legacy is sealed and Nadal will never match it. Nadal's biggest problem is what is he going to do to beat Djokovic now?
     
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  29. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    I seriously doubt Nadal believes what he said, he said it to give himself a alibi for playing like crap(just like in the fish match) against Fed as in "hey guys this guy was too much for me, I actually played good".

    Fed was in God mode last year as well(losing zero sets to ferrer,murray,sod and djoko unlike this year where he already lost a set to jo) and Nadal got a set. Fed was in God mode this year and Nadal got...4 winners. I wonder which one of them changed in the meantime.

    If Nadal truly believes he played a good match with 2 winners per set and him playing from the front row 80% of the time, he needs to get his head checked.

    My 2 cents.
     
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  30. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

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    no and NO lol
     
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  31. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

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    No problems with accepting Nadal wasn't playing great.
    However, are you going to apply the same standards to the matches Nadal won against Fed ? Are you going to accept that Fed was sub-par in nearly every match he lost to Nadal ? AO09/WImby08 ? I suspect many of the *******s will have a problem with that. Double standards, don't you think ?
     
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  32. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well obligation might not have been the best word to use, what I mean is that Nadal fans seem to sort of demand that Fed fans acknowledge Nadal played terrible tennis in his loss to Fed but were never the ones to do the same when it comes to Nadal's losses to Fed.

    I think Nadal had a bad day yesterday (and faced a zoning Fed hence the beatdown) but then again no way do I think Fed was at his best in 2008 Wimbledon and 2009 AO either.

    P.S. about the disease excuse, to Nadal's credit he made zero excuses and simply praised Fed and his performance to no end.

    You never know what the future brings, this season in the slams basically the only man who stood in Nadal's way was Novak whom may or may not repeat his level of play this year in 2012.
     
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  33. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

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    Have to love the way you put things across so succinctly :)
     
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  34. roysid

    roysid Professional

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    Fed would have won anyway as it is indoor hard court.

    Nadal was fully fit at 2006 and 2007 at shanghai. But federer overcame.

    In 2010, one can Nadal was slightly tired and Federer was firing in 1st and 3rd set.
     
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  35. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    So Nadal was lying in his presser?

    Yes but overall higher level doesn't neccesarily translate to a higher level in a single given match, Fed might lose all of his remaining matches at WTF and still have played at a higher level against Nadal in particualar this year than last year at WTF, it isn't black and white.

    Last year's final Fed had a 2nd set dip(usual for him these days) which allowed Nadal back in, maybe this year that wouldn't have happened either way.


    So he's either lying or he's crazy :)
     
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  36. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

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    Indeed :) you have to love the double-standards around here. If Rafa wins against Fed, he is a warrior who beat Fed playing at his best. If Fed has the temerity to win, Rafa was tired/sick/not at his best/poor strategy.
     
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  37. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    Whaddya mean Nadal wasn't at his best?

    This was peak Nadal at absolutely peak form in an absolutely critical important tournament!

    Hey, now I get to play the "let's declare who is in peak form.....cuz I know best!" game.

    And about the fact that Nadal ALWAYS has some kind of injury excuse?! You don't say! I mean You Don't Say!
     
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  38. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    True but in the meantime Murray and Florian Mayer defeated Nadal and he just looked horrible in Asia. However, those events were not slams and Nadal seems to kick it up for slam events so nobody knows for sure but Nadal's game does not look healthy to me right now that much is for sure.
     
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  39. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    You don't read many of Nadal fan's posts on this forum do you? According to them 2006 and 2007 was baby Nadal so Fed didn't overcome anything really.

    2006 WTF- Fed beat baby Rafa
    2007 WTF- the same
    2008 and 2009 they didn't play
    2010 - he beat a tired( from his marathon with Muzza) Rafa
    2011 - he beat a terribly playing sick Nadal

    Somehow I get this feeling that if Nadal beats Fed in say 2013 WTF it is going to be their only match-up indoors were Nadal was "at his best" .
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
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  40. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    To me this is not a issue of playing great or not, it's playing plain bad. I would struggle to call Nadal mediocre yesterday. I got the same vibe in Miami 2011 encounter about Fed with his 30 UE extravaganza.

    No two can be at their best at the same time, when talking about top players, they influence one another in a match. But they can be near their supposed top level, with ups and downs.

    Nadal yesterday(and in the fish match) was BAD. No other way to put it. I already sad why. Fed was subpar in certain matches against Nadal, otherwise he wouldn't have lost them. Ditto for Nadal. They have a interesting matchup.

    But Nadal wasn't subpar yesterday, he was a non-factor, that's the problem. I get some top 50 guy to play from the first row and loop balls at the service line against Fed and we get the same result, that guy would probably play a bit better even. But Nadal is a guy with 10 slams and he comes up with this?!
    I know a guy who is a tennis coach who said that Nadal has barely looked like a top 30 player in the last months and he knows far more than me about this sport.
     
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  41. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    Oh Clarky darling, but it's true my dear it's true. You just saw Nadal at his absolute peak best ever. And yeah, Fed was too good. Now ain't life grand!
     
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  42. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Precisely! It is a peach isn't it? :)

    Nadal fans have to deal now with what Federer fans were dealing with in Federer's game from 2008 on. Federer was never the same and started to decline then and Nadal was fresh as a daisy. Now Nadal looks like crap and Djkovic has come along. That's tennis.
     
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  43. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes but people have a tendency to form longterm conclusions based on current results(it's just human nature).

    Nadal was rarely that brilliant post USO in any year basically, he always had an odd loss or two which didn't stop him from coming back strongly next year.

    On the whole this was still a good year for Nadal, we'll see what the next year will bring.
     
    #43
  44. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Clearly the 17 times Nadal won is because he is better than Federer. The 9 times Fededer won is because Nadal wasn't playing anywhere near his best due to sickness of the ... Therefore H2H is 26-0 in favour of Nadal and Nadal is the undisputed GOAT. Also, all Nadal fans are amazing human beings and Fedtarts suck!
     
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  45. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    fed actually returned crappily in the first 2 sets in last year's final. But in the first set, he was so hot off the ground that it didn't really matter. But his crappy returning along with a bad service game cost him the second.

    In the 3rd , he didn't really play that well off the ground as the first, but returned much better, hence 6-1 .

    Nadal did play better in the last year finals, but he didn't play badly this year. He played ok, but just got overwhelmed ..

    fed in yesterday's match was better than the one in the finals last year
     
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  46. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    I hope he is lying otherwise he has some major delusions. Playing with two second serves, getting 4 BALLS past Fed in 15 games and doing all this from the first row is playing good? Or let me rephrase that, "not that bad".



    Let me put it this way, Nadal had something to come back unlike yesterday with and Fed worked more to get that first set than he did in the whole encounter on Tuesday. I don't think he broke a sweat tbh. Even if Fed did give an opening, Nadal couldn't have taken it since he was in the first row most of the time and serving powderpuffs.

    Bingo.
     
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  47. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    But does he know more than Rafa himself about his own (Nadal's) game?
     
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  48. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Seriously I am a huge Federer fan and even I can admit Nadal is not in his best peak form. Does not take away from Federer's win because the win is all that matters and Federer was in God mode but Nadal looks like crap to me and has not looked great for the past 8 months. His style of grinding play is finally catching up with him at least that is how it appears to me.
     
    #48
  49. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    But that's the thing, if they ( TW Nadal fans) showed a bit more restraint in those days and didn't kick Fed when he was down so much then maybe some of us would have went a bit easier on them as well. Point is, nothing lasts forever and much can change in tennis in just one year.
     
    #49
  50. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Yes Nadal didn't try anything at all in that 33 stroke rally that ended in 1st break of serve for Federer.
     
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