Nadal wasn't tired or unfit, he was confused.

[Sentinel]

while it lasts...
I could bump all the threads from 2007 after Fed's Hamburg victory. All Fed fans were deliriously overexcited about how it was not about Rafa being DOA but Fed miraculously discovering the right strategy, tactics, shots, approach etc, etc, that will work infallibly vs Rafa. We all saw the validity of that.
And we had the redux version with Soderling at RG 2009: all hail the new king of clay. Ha, just ha.
Keep hoping people, next time Fed plays Rafa, it will be humble pie time again, as usual (yawn).

Since when did sureshs become a delirious fed fan ??? It was he who started the Nadal was tired thread and then kept talking about Fed;s backhand.

Being excited for Fed winning a title after not doing well in last 3 slams is quite understandable surely. Have you forgotten how Nadal wept after winning his first title after coming back from injury last year.

No doubt, it does not compare to the USO. And it means nothing (i guess) for Nadal since he;s won the last 3 slams and will likely win the next 3 too.

I can't understand why the Nadal fans are so bitter about Federer winning something. Can't you be happy with his 3 slams.

I can't imagine how this board would have been if Nadal had won the WTF.You folk would have been unbearable, based on current reactions, whereas we would have congratulated you.

 

[BreakPoint]

Ya but i am talking about this year, you know where
rafa dominated. You have to go back to past years
because your boy is on his way out.

Keep all of feds past accomplishments close to you
because you will need them more+more, as more
players keep taking him out.

Nadal will NEVER make 23 consecutive Grand Slam semis even if he plays until he's 100 years old. I know it, you know it, the entire world knows it.

 

[BreakPoint]

I think the semi-final record is great but it doesn't really prove anything except Federer is a top player and that he doesn't get injured.

So are you saying that Nadal, Murray, and Djokovic are not also top players?

And why is it that no other player in the HISTORY OF TENNIS has even come even remotely close to making 23 consecutive Grand Slams semis? Not Sampras, not Laver, not Connors, not Borg, not McEnroe, not Rosewall, not Agassi, not Edberg, not Emerson, etc. In fact, the next highest was Lendl at 10.

I guess that must mean that there has never been a real "top player" in the history of tennis until Federer? OK, got it.

 

[BreakPoint]

Yeah, he looked confused,

Plus, since uncle toni was sitting in the dark he could not signal coaching or serve directions.

Ha ha ha. Good one! Yup, that must be what happened. Uncle Toni was rendered mute due to the darkness.

 

[Bobby Jr]

Nadal will NEVER make 23 consecutive Grand Slam semis even if he plays until he's 100 years old....

Another amazing streak he will never match - not in a 100 years - is Federer's 124 match winning streak in slams against player ranked outside the top 5. (broken when the then #6 ranked Del Potro beat him in last year's USO)

Nor Federer's 10 consecutive grand slam finals run. (Federer even holds the 2nd spot on the list with another 6 consecutive final run.. Laver and Agassi are next with only 4)

Nor Federer's consecutive run of 26 wins against top 10 players. (Federer also holds the 2nd spot with 17.. Lendl a distant 3rd on 11. Nadal's best run is 9 or 10 from memory)

 

[Sentinel]

^^ But you neglect the fact that Nadal is going to win the next 4 slams. That makes it 7 slam WINS in a row.
Has anyone evah won 7 slams in a row, in the Open Era. Have you ever considered that ?

 

[veroniquem]

Since when did sureshs become a delirious fed fan ??? It was he who started the Nadal was tired thread and then kept talking about Fed;s backhand.

Being excited for Fed winning a title after not doing well in last 3 slams is quite understandable surely. Have you forgotten how Nadal wept after winning his first title after coming back from injury last year.

No doubt, it does not compare to the USO. And it means nothing (i guess) for Nadal since he;s won the last 3 slams and will likely win the next 3 too.

I can't understand why the Nadal fans are so bitter about Federer winning something. Can't you be happy with his 3 slams.

I can't imagine how this board would have been if Nadal had won the WTF.You folk would have been unbearable, based on current reactions, whereas we would have congratulated you.

You're the one who sounds super bitter. I'm just stating facts and for the record, no, I don't think this is the beginning of Fed reversing his head to head vs Rafa as another delirious fan stated in another thread.
Celebrating Fed's victory is one thing, claiming that Fed is gonna own Rafa in the future because of what happened at WTF is quite another.

 

[Wilander Fan]

Then why didn't Fed win Paris?

Paris was Davis Cup like atmosphere. The French players were super stoked while Federer has motivational issues with anything less than a GS. I was really impressed by Soderling BTW. Like an iceberg out there.

 

[veroniquem]

Nadal will NEVER make 23 consecutive Grand Slam semis even if he plays until he's 100 years old. I know it, you know it, the entire world knows it.

Fed had better hang on to his semi feat as much as he can because if Rafa makes 4 slams in a row, guess how much people will care about semi records? NOT!!!!!!!!! (currently Nadal has done many things Fed has never done, I hope you realize it, like winning 3 consecutive masters and 3 consecutive slams on grass, hard and clay, you know, WINNING, much better than semis...not even mentioning making finals of every tier 1 event in tennis except for 1... and the golden slam... at the age of 24)

 

[BreakPoint]

Fed had better hang on to his semi feat as much as he can because if Rafa makes 4 slams in a row, guess how much people will care about semi records? NOT!!!!!!!!! (currently Nadal has done many things Fed has never done, I hope you realize it, like winning 3 consecutive masters and 3 consecutive slams on grass, hard and clay, you know, WINNING, much better than semis...not even mentioning making finals of every tier 1 event in tennis except for 1... and the golden slam... at the age of 24)

People will ALWAYS care about Federer's GS semi record because it will NEVER be repeated. Every tennis pundit on the face of the Earth agrees. Even if Nadal does win 4 Slams in a row, he STILL wouldn't have won the Calendar Slam, which Laver did TWICE!!! So people will still be talking about Laver and Federer, and NOT Nadal.

Oh, and would Nadal have ever won 3 consecutive Masters if they weren't on CLAY??? NOT!!!!

 

[Speranza]

Holmes: We solemnly declare at this point in time... that for you all of you Fed fans that are taking joy in his (granted) excellent recent form, his (in fairness) convincing wins (especially against Sir Rafael), in his (yawn...) record equaling fifth WTF title... We say to you this:

Watson: Take FURTHER joy from knowing that the OP and Veroniquem are hurting like mad after all the above. Go on, enjoy it

Holmes: To the OP and Veron; Should one choose to live by the sword.....

 

[aphex]

You're the one who sounds super bitter. I'm just stating facts and for the record, no, I don't think this is the beginning of Fed reversing his head to head vs Rafa as another delirious fan stated in another thread.
Celebrating Fed's victory is one thing, claiming that Fed is gonna own Rafa in the future because of what happened at WTF is quite another.

But Federer already has the better H2H, on 2 out of 3 surfaces, no?
So, as we've known all along,

Grass: Fed>ralph
Hard: Fed>ralph
Clay: ralph>Fed

 

[fednad]

You're the one who sounds super bitter. I'm just stating facts and for the record, no, I don't think this is the beginning of Fed reversing his head to head vs Rafa as another delirious fan stated in another thread.
Celebrating Fed's victory is one thing, claiming that Fed is gonna own Rafa in the future because of what happened at WTF is quite another.

Does Nadal use toothpaste or mouthwash?

 

[Sentinel]

You're the one who sounds super bitter. I'm just stating facts and for the record, no, I don't think this is the beginning of Fed reversing his head to head vs Rafa as another delirious fan stated in another thread.
Celebrating Fed's victory is one thing, claiming that Fed is gonna own Rafa in the future because of what happened at WTF is quite another.

I have nothing to be bitter about. I am happy Rafa's had a gr8 year, and i am happy Roger managed to get a couple wins before the season end - even if its not a slam. THat's it.

I have no illusions (apart from joking) what this means, but hopefully it does mean Roger has found good motivation for the next season. Only results will tell.

At present, i believe Roger and Rafa are resting or enjoying themselves, but strangely the ****s here are still totally worked up and frustrated -- its quite ridiculous.

Go and have some fun guys. Save your trolling energies for mid Jan !

 

[Sentinel]

Does Nadal use toothpaste or mouthwash?

For what ?

 

[Underhand]

This thread is wrong. How could be a man like this confused?

 

[niff]

You're the one who sounds super bitter. I'm just stating facts and for the record, no, I don't think this is the beginning of Fed reversing his head to head vs Rafa as another delirious fan stated in another thread.
Celebrating Fed's victory is one thing, claiming that Fed is gonna own Rafa in the future because of what happened at WTF is quite another.

LMAO did you just call TheNatural a delirious Fed fan?

You iz crazy lady.

Holmes: We solemnly declare at this point in time... that for you all of you Fed fans that are taking joy in his (granted) excellent recent form, his (in fairness) convincing wins (especially against Sir Rafael), in his (yawn...) record equaling fifth WTF title... We say to you this:

Watson: Take FURTHER joy from knowing that the OP and Veroniquem are hurting like mad after all the above. Go on, enjoy it

Couldn't have happened to nicer people

 

[Bobby Jr]

^^ But you neglect the fact that Nadal is going to win the next 4 slams. That makes it 7 slam WINS in a row.
Has anyone evah won 7 slams in a row, in the Open Era. Have you ever considered that ?

Neglect the fact? Do you have a crystal ball or are you using Sarah Palin-type facts - stuff you want so much to be true you just act as if it's already happened?

I didn't consider it because I was dealing with stuff which has already happened.

 

[Andres]

I happen to think that if Federer hadn't slipped and fallen in the middle of the 2nd set, he may not have lost that set.

Nadal was up a break at 4-2 in the 2nd set, serving at 40-30. Nadal's shot hits the net but pops up into a short ball inside the service line for a sitter on the deuce side of the court. Federer normally runs up and clocks a forehand winner off of balls like that. Unfortunately, he slipped and fell trying to suddenly change directions due to the let cord. Had he not slipped, he most likely would have won that point and got to deuce. Then who knows what may have happened? He had a good chance to break back since he broke Nadal's serve so many times in that match. Then the set may have gone to 4-4 or 5-5 or a tiebreak and Federer may just have won it. So personally, I blame that slip (bad shoes?) for Federer not winning that match in straight sets.

I won't let you have this one, BP. You're now informed
Consider yourself notified

 

[dh003i]

Neglect the fact? Do you have a crystal ball or are you using Sarah Palin-type facts - stuff you want so much to be true you just act as if it's already happened?

I didn't consider it because I was dealing with stuff which has already happened.

No, don't you know that *******s know what is going to happen? Never mind that most of them -- the ones not already busy propagandizing how Nadal was already "tired" -- predicted a prime Nadal would clearly beat a post-prime Federer.

 

[SteveI]

Very good post/thread OP. I completely agree.

I just re-watched the match. Nice insights. Rafa came out with a plan that had worked so many times before (as he should have), but Fed played an outstanding match and made some adjustments he was not ready for. In a 5 set match.. maybe Rafa has time to regroup and Fed has time to get tight.. The faster, low bouncing indoor court helped Fed to be sure. The bottom line... Fed won.. and we are the winners for next season as Fed has some good mojo in the tank going forward. Do not underestimate how fast other players and coaches will jump on the tape of this match and take note of how Fed played... Note.. also think the match the day before did take a bit out of legs and mind of Rafa. The match was much more important to Fed than it was to Rafa. Look at Rafa's results last year @ this event.. I say he made a great jump in his effort. All and all great stuff.. from two of the best of all time. I feel blessed to have seen it..

Have a good one..
Steve

 

[veroniquem]

People will ALWAYS care about Federer's GS semi record because it will NEVER be repeated. Every tennis pundit on the face of the Earth agrees. Even if Nadal does win 4 Slams in a row, he STILL wouldn't have won the Calendar Slam, which Laver did TWICE!!! So people will still be talking about Laver and Federer, and NOT Nadal.

Oh, and would Nadal have ever won 3 consecutive Masters if they weren't on CLAY??? NOT!!!!

Who cares? He won 3 consecutive masters period, which no one has ever done on any surface.
Laver won the calendar slam but on grass and clay only. So for Rafa to do 4 consecutive on 3 surfaces would be a complete first as well and way more important than any number of semis. Not that there is anything wrong with a semi streak but it doesn't supersede WINNING titles!

 

[veroniquem]

But Federer already has the better H2H, on 2 out of 3 surfaces, no?
So, as we've known all along,

Grass: Fed>ralph
Hard: Fed>ralph
Clay: ralph>Fed

Head to head by surface is an invention of deranged Fed fans.
The only head to head I know is 14-8 in favor of Rafa and that's the one the ATP publishes as well and that's the one people will remember. They only played 3 matches on grass and the first one was when Rafa just turned 20, Rafa won their last match on grass, I cannot wait for the next 1: bring it on really (if Fed is still capable of course), it should be a lot of fun.
Rafa has the edge on outdoor hard as well, so it leaves indoor where I have no problem whatsoever acknowledging that Fed is still a better player
(I would have no problem that is, if Fed fans were honest enough to acknowledge that Rafa is a decisive notch ahead on all other surfaces. It's all up to Fed at this point to raise his level enough on those other surfaces to make the final, so Rafa can prove my point once again but Fed's best of 5 perf seems to have declined rather sharply throughout last year, so we'll have to wait and see...)

 

[mandy01]

Head to head by surface is an invention of deranged Fed fans.
The only head to head I know is 14-8 in favor of Rafa and that's the one the ATP publishes as well and that's the one people will remember. They only played 3 matches on grass and the first one was when Rafa just turned 20, Rafa won their last match on grass, I cannot wait for the next 1: bring it on really (if Fed is still capable of course), it should be a lot of fun.

Sure..in the same way should they meet this time that meeting won't matter because Fed will have then turned 30 which isn't exactly young in tennis terms.
Even in their last meeting Fed was recovering from a " momo-ridden" first half of the season :mrgreen:
So we're on an 'equal' footing here :lol:

 

[Sentinel]

Head to head by surface is an invention of deranged Fed fans.

Head to head itself is an invention of certain deranged fans.

Notice how they get cranky and throw tantrums if you whisper Davydenko in their ears.

 

[Andres]

People will ALWAYS care about Federer's GS semi record because it will NEVER be repeated. Every tennis pundit on the face of the Earth agrees. Even if Nadal does win 4 Slams in a row, he STILL wouldn't have won the Calendar Slam, which Laver did TWICE!!! So people will still be talking about Laver and Federer, and NOT Nadal.

Oh, and would Nadal have ever won 3 consecutive Masters if they weren't on CLAY??? NOT!!!!

Don't fool yourself, BP. If Nadal wins 4 or 5 in a row, no one will care about Fed's semis streak.

 

[Netspirit]

Who cares? He won 3 consecutive masters period, which no one has ever done on any surface.

Masters are a relative novelty. They did not exist before 90s.

 

[Bobby Jr]

Masters are a relative novelty. They did not exist before 90s.

Yes, they did - if you're referring to the YEC (and not the Masters Series). They were held in Madison Square Garden in NYC from the late 1970s until 1990 - originally in January as the (tour's) year-end championships and then in late Nov/early Dec from mid 80s onwards.

Before then even they were held in a few other places I think.

 

[Bobby Jr]

...Do not underestimate how fast other players and coaches will jump on the tape of this match and take note of how Fed played...

Steve, this is an extremely good point. As another example, when Courier rose to fame he was a nightmare to everyone but when you're the top everyone is trying to figure you out and, collectively, all those minds will eventually figure out what works. For Courier he was undone by his own lack of adaptability and it showed when people who didn't bother trying to beat him at his own game started to give him trouble.

Federer has been fortunate that his game has so much top gear in it that it's been hard for others to really figure it out - he drives the play so well. Nadal's success against him has come by virtue of his unique forehand being a bad match for Federer's backhand coupled with his astonishing speed and consistency. Have others been able to mimic that? Largely, no.

On the other hand, when Nadal has been undone there seems to quite a similar thread running - his opposition hitting out and not letting him work his way into rallys. Federer showed this in the Barclay's, Soderling showed it last year at the FO, Murray at this year's Roger's Cup, Marcos Baghdatis in Cincinnati.

I'm not at all suggesting that Nadal will show the sort of decline that Courier did (which, to be fair, was also due to his own burnout from overtraining, hard playing etc - surprise surprise!...) but there is more potential to undo Nadal's game than Federer's - especially on hard courts. Given that, the chance of him repeating his astonishing successes of this year are bordering on nil as Djokovic, Murray and Soderling mature more. And especially if Federer can play like he did in London at even a couple of majors in 2011.

 

[BreakPoint]

Who cares? He won 3 consecutive masters period, which no one has ever done on any surface.
Laver won the calendar slam but on grass and clay only. So for Rafa to do 4 consecutive on 3 surfaces would be a complete first as well and way more important than any number of semis. Not that there is anything wrong with a semi streak but it doesn't supersede WINNING titles!

Um...that's only because there are no 3 consecutive Masters played on any other surface except slow, red CLAY!

Yes, you may be right. That's why Federer has won more titles AND more Slams than Nadal has.

 

[BreakPoint]

Head to head by surface is an invention of deranged Fed fans.
The only head to head I know is 14-8 in favor of Rafa and that's the one the ATP publishes as well and that's the one people will remember. They only played 3 matches on grass and the first one was when Rafa just turned 20, Rafa won their last match on grass, I cannot wait for the next 1: bring it on really (if Fed is still capable of course), it should be a lot of fun.
Rafa has the edge on outdoor hard as well, so it leaves indoor where I have no problem whatsoever acknowledging that Fed is still a better player
(I would have no problem that is, if Fed fans were honest enough to acknowledge that Rafa is a decisive notch ahead on all other surfaces. It's all up to Fed at this point to raise his level enough on those other surfaces to make the final, so Rafa can prove my point once again but Fed's best of 5 perf seems to have declined rather sharply throughout last year, so we'll have to wait and see...)

Um...nobody remembers anyone's head-to-head. People only remember the number of Slams that you won.

Do you remember what Laver's head-to-head was against anyone? How about Connors' head-to-head? McEnroe? Newcombe? Rosewall? Nastase? Borg? No one remembers and no one cares!

 

[BreakPoint]

Don't fool yourself, BP. If Nadal wins 4 or 5 in a row, no one will care about Fed's semis streak.

Oh, yes they will, because it will NEVER be equaled. Someone else can come along and win 4 or 5 Slams in a row. Heck, Federer himself almost did it three times. Just like someone came along and won more than Sampras's 14 Slams. But no one will EVER make 23 consecutive Slam semis again for as long as pro tennis exists.

 

[BreakPoint]

Yes, they did - if you're referring to the YEC (and not the Masters Series). They were held in Madison Square Garden in NYC from the late 1970s until 1990 - originally in January as the (tour's) year-end championships and then in late Nov/early Dec from mid 80s onwards.

Before then even they were held in a few other places I think.

He was referring to the Masters Series of 9 tournaments.

 

[Sentinel]

237 weeks.

 

[aphex]

Head to head by surface is an invention of deranged Fed fans.
The only head to head I know is 14-8 in favor of Rafa and that's the one the ATP publishes as well and that's the one people will remember. They only played 3 matches on grass and the first one was when Rafa just turned 20, Rafa won their last match on grass, I cannot wait for the next 1: bring it on really (if Fed is still capable of course), it should be a lot of fun.
Rafa has the edge on outdoor hard as well, so it leaves indoor where I have no problem whatsoever acknowledging that Fed is still a better player
(I would have no problem that is, if Fed fans were honest enough to acknowledge that Rafa is a decisive notch ahead on all other surfaces. It's all up to Fed at this point to raise his level enough on those other surfaces to make the final, so Rafa can prove my point once again but Fed's best of 5 perf seems to have declined rather sharply throughout last year, so we'll have to wait and see...)

tl;dr


The facts:


Grass: fed>ralph
Hard: fed>ralph
Clay: ralph>fed


Overall: fed>ralph

 

[dandelion_smiley]

Head to head by surface is an invention of deranged Fed fans.
The only head to head I know is 14-8 in favor of Rafa and that's the one the ATP publishes as well and that's the one people will remember. They only played 3 matches on grass and the first one was when Rafa just turned 20, Rafa won their last match on grass, I cannot wait for the next 1: bring it on really (if Fed is still capable of course), it should be a lot of fun.
Rafa has the edge on outdoor hard as well, so it leaves indoor where I have no problem whatsoever acknowledging that Fed is still a better player
(I would have no problem that is, if Fed fans were honest enough to acknowledge that Rafa is a decisive notch ahead on all other surfaces. It's all up to Fed at this point to raise his level enough on those other surfaces to make the final, so Rafa can prove my point once again but Fed's best of 5 perf seems to have declined rather sharply throughout last year, so we'll have to wait and see...)

Do you actually know how many times they played on clay? 12 out od 22

If you want it fair, take the % of a particular surface played in a season and then multiply by the no of matches

IT IS:

12 matches on clay
7 on hard courts
3 on grass

IT SHOULD BE:
13 matches on hard courts (60 % of the season)
6 matches on clay courts (30 % of the season)
3 matches on grass courts (10 % of the season)

The fact that they played only 7 matches on hc compared to 12 on clay is a joke and means nothing else that their h2h is skewed.

It also means that either
a)Federer was too good on clay to keep reaching finals on clay only to lose to Nadal (even if their matches were very close Nadal had the upper hand)
b)Nadal sucked too much on hard courts to reach the final's in which Fed was already waiting

I mean really, nobody takes their h2h seriously except for the *********s, it's their only arguement in the WHO'S BETTER debate.

 

[Sentinel]

^^ guys, let it be. vero is both tired and confused.

haha, just pulling your leg, v.

 

[MixieP]

Of course Rafa was confused. He's the world number one, he plays his best tennis, and he doesn't stand a chance against Roger. Who wouldn't be confused in the circumstances?