Nadals Clay Dominance vs. Federer's Grass Dominance

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by serve/and/volley, May 2, 2008.

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Which is more impressive?

  1. Nadal's clay dominance

    74 vote(s)
    41.8%
  2. Federer's grass dominance

    44 vote(s)
    24.9%
  3. Both equally impressive

    57 vote(s)
    32.2%
  4. Both not impressive at all

    2 vote(s)
    1.1%
  1. serve/and/volley

    serve/and/volley Rookie

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    From examining the stats on Nadal's clay dominance:
    - http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=195188

    and Federer's grass dominance:
    - http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=195327

    I find some striking similarities:

    Nadal's clay stats from from 2005 Monte Carlo through 2008 Barcelona QF:
    Matches won: 101
    Matches lost: 1
    Match winning percentage: 99.02%
    Sets won: 231
    Sets lost: 26
    Set winning percentage: 89.88%

    Only players to have taken multiple sets off of Nadal:
    - Federer: 8 sets
    - Coria: 3 sets
    - Hewitt: 2 sets

    Federer v. Nadal on clay:
    1-8 head-to-head
    Won 8 sets out of 28: 28.57%
    (Nadal won 20 sets out of 28: 71.43%)

    Federer's grass stats from 2003 Halle through 2007 Wimbledon:
    Matches won: 55
    Matches lost: 0
    Match winning percentage: 100%
    Sets won: 142
    Sets lost: 16
    Set winning percentage: 89.87%

    Only player to have taken multiple sets off of Federer:
    - Nadal: 3 sets

    Nadal v. Federer on grass:
    0-2 head-to-head
    Won 3 sets out of 9: 33.33%
    (Federer won 6 out of 9: 66.66%)
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2008
    #1
  2. gj011

    gj011 Banned

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    Nadal. 10 chars.
     
    #2
  3. mfischer

    mfischer New User

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    #3
  4. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Nadal easily clay dominance. Fed is almost done.
     
    #4
  5. BigT

    BigT Professional

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    Nadal gets the nod. The clay court season is much longer and demanding. Grass season is what...2 tournaments?
     
    #5
  6. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    i think fed's 5 straight season is bigger than nadal's 3 straight, currently.
     
    #6
  7. Gizo

    Gizo Hall of Fame

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    In my opinion Federer's hardcourt domination from the Masters Cup 2003 - Masters Cup 2007 tops both his own domination on grass and Nadal's on clay. Hardcourts are easily the most dominant surface nowadays, and there is many, many times more strength in depth on hard, than either clay or grass. Most of the current generation play hardcourt tennis on clay and grass anyway.
     
    #7
  8. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Sorry but 101 is more impessive than 55. If Roger can double his number then I'll be equally impressed and if he gets to 100 with 0 match lost, I will definitely be more impressed. Hopefully it won't happen because Rafa will finally manage to snatch one this year! (and make my dream come true in the process...)
     
    #8
  9. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

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    It didn't take a genius to figure out who you'd vote for.
     
    #9
  10. quest01

    quest01 Hall of Fame

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    Nadal has obviously accomplished more on one surface compared to Federer. The clay court season is much longer with more tournaments being played so Nadal should be held at a higher level then Federer in this regard because of the length of the clay season compared to grass.
     
    #10
  11. [d]ragon

    [d]ragon Hall of Fame

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    tough choice, i like both players but i voted nadal because hes had almost double the amount of matches fed has
     
    #11
  12. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    I said Nadal...although both are amazing achievements the clay court season is much longer and potentially more draining, and the fact that nadal can do what he does on the dirt so continously is amazing. Much credit to fed...but Nadals just takes it for me
     
    #12
  13. Vision84

    Vision84 Hall of Fame

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    Grass because Federer would be much more dominant if there were grass events.

    Grass is harder to dominate on because the points are so short so favor players who are really in the zone and it is hard to maintain this level than on clay. Sampras said something to this effect. Grass also welcomes much greater variety than clay.
     
    #13
  14. fer

    fer Rookie

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    I voted for Nadal s dominance, he has won more matches and clay is more physically demanding.
     
    #14
  15. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I'm leaning towards Federer's record because he won five Wimbledons in a row while Nadal still has three in a row but losing 1 match out of 100 on clay is just insane so I'll just go with both.
     
    #15
  16. willgonase10

    willgonase10 Banned

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    Nadal wins...KO!?!?!?
     
    #16
  17. Tempest344

    Tempest344 Professional

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    Can't compare
    there are a lot more clay tournaments than grass
     
    #17
  18. latinking

    latinking Professional

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    Nadal has more wins because of the length of the season his record is sick. Fed has got 5 grass slams which is just crazy.

    Both very impressive! We are all lucky to see both these guys.
     
    #18
  19. BlahDow

    BlahDow Rookie

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    Both are amazing but i'll give Nadal thumbs up here...100+ wins and the only loss coming to the #1 player in the world.
     
    #19
  20. deme08

    deme08 Professional

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    The field of players are much stronger on Grass than Clay. Hardly any decent dirtballers these days, except Fed/Nadal. On grass you have Djokovic, Roddick, Nadal, Gasquet, just to name a few. Fed's competition is better that makes his record more impressive.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2008
    #20
  21. The balls in your court.

    The balls in your court. Banned

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    grass court season is only like a month long. Clay is far longer.
     
    #21
  22. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Both dominances are extremely impressive. I wonder if they'd settle for winning a wimby/RG of the other in the same year. If their year stayed the same for the rest of it, would they be happy? I think after Roger's 5 in a row at wimbledon, he defenitely would, although I think he wouldn't last year.

    You could say Nadal's dominance is more impressive, because he plays many more matches on the surface. On the other hand, Federer is doing it 5 years in a row, never lost a match, and his percentage of Grand Slam matches, the podium where every player tries to shine, is higher, while Nadal plays more events like Barcelona on clay as well.

    However, I think both dominances are great, both are equally impressive.
     
    #22
  23. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    Nadals got more matches to boost about but thats because the clay season is longer, I think Federer would have similar stats if grass season was longer.....so Im picking Federer because hes won Wimby for more years running than Nadal has won the FO
     
    #23
  24. deme08

    deme08 Professional

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    Now thats a sound and rational post.
     
    #24
  25. Thor

    Thor Professional

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    On one hand Nadal played almost double the amount Fed has.
    On the other hand,he "only" has 3 FO.
    For now Federer,if Nadal clips the Next French he'll have my vote
     
    #25
  26. Aabye

    Aabye Professional

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    Nice. ten chars
     
    #26
  27. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    Federer, because wimbledon is the most prestigous of all 4, if you ask any ATP pro. Tennis players regard Wimbledon as the ultimate prize.

    Nadal does have more match wins, but most of them are not GS matches.
    even if he wins 5 FO consecutively, that still can't compare to 5 wimbledons. 6FOs would match that feat.

    and considering the fact that wimbledon surfaces keep on changing year by year, Federer's dominance on the changing surface is the greatest feat. even Sampras 7 Wimbies also didn't happen on a changing grass surface.
     
    #27
  28. dima

    dima Banned

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    5 Wimbledons> 3 FO
     
    #28
  29. ufg8r

    ufg8r New User

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    Nadal's impresses me much more. I believe that Federer is in grave danger of his grass winning streak being broken this year.
     
    #29
  30. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    Federer by far! Nadal needs at least 2 more FO to match it.
     
    #30
  31. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    You can't fault Federer because there aren't any masters events on grass. And you also can't just blindly assume that he would be losing matches on grass if there were more tourneys on the surface. He has been just as dominant on grass as Nadal has been on clay and you're opinion that he would not carry a record like Nadal's clay record on grass is just pure biased speculation.

    There are plenty of players that like grass, and they don't have to be in the top 10-20 either. At Wimbledon you can run into an Ancic, Johannson, Hewitt, Karlovic, Mirnyi, very early in the tournament and have very tough match. But to say that there aren't very many players in the top 20 that don't like grass is ridiculous. Roddick, Hewitt , Nalbandian, Baghdatis, Djokovic, Gasquet, Nadal....all have been to the semis or better of Wimbledon. Then there are a bunch of others who have had success on the surface.
     
    #31
  32. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Davydenko, Ferrer, Almagro, Djokovic, Andreev, Nalbandian on clay>Roddick, Djokovic, Gasquet, Baghdatis, and whoever else you consider tough opponents on grass. It seems like a lot of those players have faded lately as well to make Wimbledon even easier for Federer. At least until the Semifinals. Nadal had to take down Federer 7 times while Fed only had to take Nadal 2 times. The quality of opponents Nadal faced on clay is lopsided to what Fed faced on grass. Hopefully Djokovic can make things interesting on grass but I assume that is not a comfortable surface for him similar to clay.
     
    #32
  33. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    I think there's no real answer to the question. It's totally different and there are factors to suggest that Fed's been more dominant (more of his matches GS, Grass harder to dominate, 5 years, no loss) and others to suggest Nadal's been better..(more matches played, more matches a season, tougher opponents). They've both been awesome, and everybody's just defending their idol again.
     
    #33
  34. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Both feats are equally impressive. The factors, which can't be changed, make it difficult to announce a clear winner. If I had my druthers I'd go with Nadal's 101 matches at age 21. That's the most impressive thing to me!
     
    #34
  35. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    Nalbandian would be at least as tough for Fed on grass as he would be for Nadal on clay. It's to bad that Nadal doesn't grow a pair and play Halle so that maybe Fed can get more then one match a year against Nadal on grass. But he probably wouldn't make the finals, just like he never makes the finals in any of the hardcourt tourneys that they both play. Kind of funny how that works.
     
    #35
  36. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Nadal gets 2 days of rest before Queens which is faster than Halle. I think Nadal would do better in Halle.
     
    #36
  37. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    how can you claim that the claycourters you mentioned are better than the players who follow? the plain and simple truth is that more players are more successful on grass than they are on clay. the fact that federer doesnt have as many matches is explained by the lack of grass tournaments. just like it was said before, you can't assume fed would lose at any new grass tournaments all the time, when his record suggests the complete opposite. you should consider adopting a less biased opinion on federer - nadal topics. it's cool you like nadal, but don't belittle federer so that you can claim nadal is better on his particular specialty court than federer, because the evidence in numbers is dependant entirely on the fact that the clay season is much larger. it's a fair assumption federer would be just as dominant on grass, if the grass season were just as long as the clay.

    again, drop the bias before making an argument, and you wont have as many people chewing you out about it.
     
    #37
  38. serve/and/volley

    serve/and/volley Rookie

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    Also remember that:

    The only players to have taken multiple sets off of Nadal on clay are:
    (From 2005 Monte Carlo through 2008 Barcelona SF)
    - Federer: 8 sets
    - Coria: 3 sets
    - Hewitt: 2 sets

    The only player to have taken multiple sets off of Federer on grass is:
    (From 2003 Halle through 2007 Wimbeldon)
    - Nadal: 3 sets

    Nadal and Federer have virtually no competition on their respective dominant surfaces other than ... each other!
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2008
    #38
  39. MEAC_ALLAMERICAN

    MEAC_ALLAMERICAN Legend

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    I am a huge fan of clay court tennis, and Nadal's streak on clay is more impressive to me. Roger is the best in my book, but sustaining that type of streak on such a demanding surface is plain out crazy or not human. :shock:
     
    #39
  40. Nadal_Monfils

    Nadal_Monfils Semi-Pro

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    I'd say Nadal's clay court performance is more impressive because he is not always well rested for every match on clay, whereas Federer is always well rested for matches on grass because there are only a couple of tournaments. Nadal has to maintain his level over the course of more matches, while Federer only has to dominate for a couple of weeks and not be exhausted for any matches on grass.
     
    #40
  41. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Nadal I'd say, but at the same time, Fed doesn't have tennis to even play on grass, so it's hard to decide.
     
    #41
  42. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    Alright! Why don't you e-mail your homeboy and tell him to play Halle. I hope he does.
     
    #42
  43. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    Very good point
     
    #43
  44. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    I would vote for Roger on Grass, but the thing is that there just is not enough grass tournaments. Far far more clay and Nadal plays 99% of them.
     
    #44
  45. Fries-N-Gravy

    Fries-N-Gravy Semi-Pro

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    there arent enough grass tournaments the season is less than a month long. even as a fed fan who wants to see him accomplish the impossible, at this point nadal is slightly more dominant on clay. he almost took wimbledon last year and fed has only been able to take nadal to 4 setters so far at RG.

    fed is already getting a good start on the clay season, getting to the final at monte carlo. If not this year, maybe next year he will take RG from nadal.

    just seeing the way nadal destroys everyone on clay is amazing. his movement and anticipation are godlike
     
    #45
  46. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Ferrer is now Nadal's biggest threat on clay this year. He proved that today. Fed has yet to win a set on Nadal.
     
    #46
  47. Nadal_Monfils

    Nadal_Monfils Semi-Pro

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    ^^^ I still think Federer is Nadal's biggest threat. Ferrer might be able to take a set off Nadal or play a close set with him but I don't think he is able to sustain a high enough level to win a match. Federer has more firepower and a better ability to hurt Nadal on clay. Ferrer has shown he can't keep up a very high level of play throughout the entirity of a match, evidenced by the score of the third set.
     
    #47
  48. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    For now I think Federer is still the toughest opponent for Nadal. He gave Nadal the toughest match on the slow clay of Monte Carlo. If in the next two weeks Ferrer continues to play at this level then I would consider him to possibly be a bigger threat to Nadal but overall Federer is still his biggest test at Roland Garros.
     
    #48
  49. jgreen06

    jgreen06 Rookie

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    with the clay season being so much longer its hard not to say nadal, simply more matches hes won on that surface.
     
    #49
  50. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    It's hard not to say Fed, for anyone who understands what makes history. Grand Slams are what is important as individual entities, not Masters series events (which are only important secondarily in determining rank, record, and total # won). I suppose Nadal_Freak would say Agassi was a greater player than Sampras because he won more Masters series events than Sampras? LOL.
     
    #50

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