Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by JennyS, Oct 29, 2009.
Who is Roger Clemens and what did he do?
American baseball pitcher who lied about taking steroids during his playing career.
I like Martina, but too damn bad. ..Andre has a right to spill his guts about his career no matter what. If he were an actor or musician no one would grumble about his decision to exorcise some demons. Yet because this is tennis, he's supposed to be guarded and protective. BS! Maybe the greatest good to come from his story is that it will shine a light on what happens when a parent turns their 8 year old child into a meal-ticket. Might these revelations damage Andre's legacy and relationship to the sport?? Quite likely. ..But I admire that this doesn't deter him from sharing his story. to thy own self be true.
And the comparison to Clemons is bogus. For one, RC used a substance known to improve performance in sports; Andre used a recreational drug that can only ruin ones performance in sport. Secondly, RC fessed up to only after being outed whereas Andre admitted to this without any prompting.
I don't blame Martina. I honestly don't know what possible reason Agassi could have for coming out and admitting this. Sure makes the ATP look stupid. I never joined in all of the love and adoration for Agassi. I know he lied about lot's of things...mostly injuries when he lost in an early round. He was a pretty lousey example to young players. Yeah, he's done a lot of good since then, with his Academy, but it shows others that some people can get away with anything if they are the "fair haired" albeit "fairhairpieced wearing" athelete.
Clemens sounds like a bit of a bawbag and possible drug cheat. Don't see how Andre is in any way comparable. Sounds like an over-reaction to me.
Martina should have sympathy for someone having to keep something secret for so long. After all she did have to keep her sexuality a secret.
Yes the main difference is Clemens used stuff he knew would give him a competitive advantage. Meth to my knowledge gives no competitive advantage.
clemens used drugs to help his play...wtf does crystal meth do to help you play tennis?? run faster? i think nothing should be taken away from him, and comparing him to roger clemens is completely ridiculous.
The penalty for testing positive for recreational drugs in '97 was a 3 month suspension.
Agassi said he was informed of his positive test in the fall of '97, when he dropped out of the top 100. He hardly played at all that year(had an injury)
The only title he won when he should have been suspended was a challenger in fall '97.
There are excerpts from his book in the new issue of SI. Apparently the book is over 400 pages, sounds like it will blow Pete & Mac's book away in terms of detail(even in the brief excerpts I read the way he breaks down Goran's serving tendencies vs other lefty servers is really fascinating)
And the story of when his dad met Graf's dad for the 1st time is hilarious.
Yep - it's gone to the top of my Xmas book list.
Martina doesn't get it.
You'll note that we have no comment yet from Sampras on the subject. And, Sampras competed against Andre, Martina didn't.
But, I guess, once the butt of everyone's joke, always the butt of everyone's joke. Isn't it obvious to Martina that they called her to see what she thought because the suspicion has always been out there that she was juicing up on something?
I agree with most people here... Agassi taking meth is hardly anything similar to Clemens taking steroids...
I actually admire Agassi quite a lot more now knowing he just had to set the truth free... even when he didn't have to.
What makes you think meth is the only thing he took?
What makes you think it isn’t the only thing he did take? All this knowledge came from the source himself. Anything else beyond that will be pure conjecture unless the ATP and Agassi decide to divulge anything further.
What makes you think it isn't?
You have to be really nieve to think someone experiments with meth.
Its like your first drink being everclear instead of a beer/wine.
His assistant just drops an ounce of meth on his table and he says nothing? If someone did that at your house im sure you would say something unless its been previously reguarded as ok.
With the lifestyle she lives I don't think she has room to put anyone down. It reminds of how Rosie O'donnell puts people down.
I used to like Roger Clemens. I was disappointed when I found out about his drug use, like I'm disappointed in Agassi. I think Martina N needs to shut her mouth-she talks too much!!!!
Don't agree with Martina, but Agassi's book is a black eye for the ATP. Maybe well deserved, but still surprising. Not sure why Agassi decided to burn the bridges.
Not the same at all. Martina unlike Andre had done nothing wrong.
this is a joke question right?
Many people dont watch or care about baseball.
Martina used steroids when she played so she isnt really the one to be making these statements.
By no means does this make Agassi a drug cheat. Meth is a recreational drug, not a performance-enhancer, and probably has a decidedly harmful overall effect on tennis performance. It reflects poorly on Agassi that he abused a harmful substance and lied about it to officials to escape a three-month suspension, but it is hardly comparable to using illegal performance-enhancing drugs to cheat your way to the top and lying about it until you're outed.
To drum up hype so people will buy his book.
Seems like an obvious reason to come out with a big revelation just before the book is published... I'm surprised more people don't think this is the obvious explanation for "why now".
Of course but he's been all over the news regardless.
Also, some gay people might take exception to being compared to someone lying about drug use for the sake of his career and reputation, then revealing it after retirement to goose his book sales. Just sayin’.
That said, the comparison to Clemens is totally over the top, given the information currently on the table.
1997 was Agassi's worst year on the tour. Who did he beat that he shouldn't have when he was supposed to be suspended according to Martina?
I don't disagree with her that Andre did a stupid thing and was lucky to get away with it but it's not like he was doing meth in 1999 when he won the French and US Opens.
Still, meth is a recreational drug, like cocaine, that isn't going to help your performance. Wilander, Hingis and Gasquet got a raw deal as far as that goes.
navrat comes across as being very slow in this article, first she doesnt understand why he lied (duh, his whole image would have been shot to pieces if he told the truth, especially considering his tag back then 'image is everything') and then she doesnt understand why hes telling the truth now (duh, he feels guilty plus hes writing a tell all biography), this woman is dumb to say the least
Who knows, he sat on this for 11 years, you know he did alot more bad stuff.
"There is a case that happened in Australia (2002), where there was a [doping] control and him [Agassi] disappeared saying that his son had just been kidnapped... I'd love sending someone to make him do the doping test and I'll say "hey, i want to see and certify that they're doing it to him". Because i don't know who is the boss, who is the one who decides whether they are going to make the test or not.
I know that if they catch him with nandrolona, they're not going to say anything. He's a very strong guy in tennis and tennis would come down is they catch him in a doping test. The ATP wouldn't say anything. The organization is so strong that Agassi would become a problem if he tests positive"
I'm biased because Agassi is my favorite player of all time. I like him for this reason, he never gave up. When things were at it's worse when he dropped to 100 something in the world he didn't give up and he was able to get back into the top 10 again and eventually the #1 spot. Not everyone has a perfect life. Not everyone can be Roger Federer or Pete Sampras. It takes a real person to come out and admit that they're wrong about something. Agassi didn't have to admit about the crystal meth in his book, but he did. I don't like that he did this years after he retired and nothing can be done to him. I think some can say it hurts his image. But he does say how bad it was for him. Was it a bad thing that he did it and lied about it? sure. Did he own up to it? In my opinion yes. The time period that he did crystal meth was a tough time for him. Like a regular human being we all have our moments, but look at Agassi's career and all the good he's done when he got his act together. To me he's shown regular people that we can overcome our everyday struggles, because he's done the same and became a better person. Navratilova can go off about Agassi, that's her opinion. To me what he did in a tough time of his life doesn't outweigh the good he's done after.
Yeah, that's what I thought when I heard about his confession -- offering up something 'shocking' to get some free publicity for his book.
I know that's how the game is played when it comes to marketing a memoir these days, but confessing to lying strikes me as a pretty cheap and tawdry way of doing it. And oh so obvious that's what he's doing. Blecch!
You can take the boy out of Las Vegas, but ....
I feel sorry for Martina Navratilova.
This is true. However there is the parallel in how she kept her sexuality a secret the same way Andre kept his drug usage a secret, in order to protect their public images. However it would be moronic to say being gay is the same thing as using drugs.
martina needs to drink this, remember she hasn't been important since the early 90s and take up shuffleboard with the rest of her geritol popping friends!
i wonder about how she feels about the skeletons in her closet?
what does she know about andre's life? who the hell is she to kick sand at anyone?
she's just honked because agassi overshadowed her "second retirement" at the 2006 uso
here martina, make it a double...
Reading any comments from her reminds me of why I mute the tv when she is talking during a match. Most of the commentators are so lame and boring that I would almost prefer the shrieks of Sharapova.
Agassi wore a hair piece?
oh and i beg to differ excuse me
Is Martina really comparing a recreational drug to a performance enhancing one? Or is she implying that Agassi took performance enhancing drugs too?
As many have said, talk about apples to oranges. Meth in no way helped Agassi beat any one he shouldn't have. Any one who lost to him while he was using ought to be ashamed of themselves, not outraged.
Sounds like sour grapes on Martina's part to me. Agassi, widely loved and greatly acknowledged as an ambassador. Martina... well, a great player, but pissed that most people mistook her for a member of the ATP.
Excellent! You expressed what I wanted to say perfectly eloquently. Agassi has every right to reveal whatever he wants of his own life and it would be dismal if he hid facts due to being intimidated by the ATP.
Nav and Nadal should shut up. As long as steroids are not a recreational drug. I wonder why both felt the the need to speak up. Do they feel guilty deep inside ? Hypocrisy...
So by your logic it would be nobler to continue lying than come up with the truth at some point? Sorry but I don't understand that morality. So it would be better for people to remain naive and credulous and trust the ATP blindly when they don't deserve it? It would be better for people to believe an athlete is blameless when he's not? I have no interest in fairy tales, I'd always rather know the truth!
Excuse-me but you totally lost me here. What does Agassi's attitude have to do with the color of his hair?:shock:
Martina has a right to speak her mind, rather we agree with her or not. She said that Martina Hingis was too young to play and those statements, too, pissed people off. Well, look at Hingis now.
And her comparison with Roger Clemens is not about performance-enhancing vs. non performance-enhancing. It's about LYING. And I think it's definitely a VALID COMPARISON. I like Agassi, but he is definitely wrong for lying.
Now. I can't wait to see if, and when, Steffi Graf responds to Martina =). But all of this discussion is great for Andre. Let's be honest. Every time expresses disappointment in Agassi, a few more sales will be realized.
Martina might enjoy this subtle jab at Agassi, reportedly from CBS columnist Ray Ratto:
"Hope it’s very therapeutic for him. Hope it causes someone else to walk away from meth, or coke, or Peruvian poisonous toad extract, or whatever else is out there now. We're not here to kick a guy now that he's back up, although in fairness we've always found honesty to be more refreshing when it doesn't come at $31.99 a copy."
Martina is just an attention seeker. For the last 10-15 years she constantly states herself as the greatest ever in press conferences because she is jealous of the fact that Graf has surpassed her status as the greatest ever in the opinion of most people. This is just another attempt at getting in the news.
Only the extremely hypocritical & insufferably self-righteous would judge another human being for revealing, on his own accord, a small part of his past history.
But don't miss the real point : it's really about yet another opportunity to back stab Steffi for having something in her life that she will never have herself.
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