Need Help ASAP in this Appeal

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by FedHenry, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Your experience is the opposite of mine. Shrug.
     
    #51
  2. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

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    Just back you up, I've seen the same thing many, many times also. I've got two guys on my 4.5 team from this year that fit that description. Both were very good D1 players in the 80s, but stopped playing tennis for about 10 to 15 years. Both have gorgeous strokes, instinctively know where to be on the court, and are competitive... but were in bad shape (the 20 extra pounds you mention) when then first came out. However, by the end of the season, they were amongst the top 4 players on our team.

    (If my guys had tried to self-rate at 3.5 like the player in this thread, they would not have lost single game, much less a match, and they would have been bored out of their minds. So I still don't buy a guy in his late 20s, in Olympic shape, with 3 years of D2 college playing experience, as anything less than a 4.5, even if he hasn't picked up a racquet in 6 years.)
     
    #52
  3. FedHenry

    FedHenry Rookie

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    UPDATED
    Ok the USTA agree in our teams favor. We won the match 3-2 and the player was DQ. He didnt fill out the ranking application correctly and put that he only played tennis recreational. So he lied
    The other team captain appeal their decision so i'm waiting until tomorrow morning to see if they reject his appeal.
    After all that i get home, i received a call from the other team captain to talk out the situation and all that stuff. He propose that before tomorrow semifinals a Singles sudden death match its play out to see who deserve the semis spot. He is gonna put this guy
    http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...nnislink.usta.com/Leagues/Common/Default.aspx
    He wasnt available the day of the match, he was on business trip.
    I told him that i will talk it out with my team because i aint a dictator :)
    All my team said [​IMG]

    What you guys think of this?
    It's to convenient for him, I try to hear him out and be respectful but he cheated
     
    #53
  4. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    He cheated, you owe him zero favors. Say "no," your team has to move on to prepare for its next matches.

    Congratulations on winning the appeal!
     
    #54
  5. Local Girl

    Local Girl New User

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    CONGRATULATIONS!!! Don't agree to do anything the other captain suggests. Tell him: "Fuggetaboutit!".
     
    #55
  6. FedHenry

    FedHenry Rookie

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    Just called the other captain and he got really pissed. He try to made me feel bad because winning like that its not for real man HAHAHAHAHAAHAH.
    In other words he said this [​IMG]

    Thanks guys for all the replies they were really helpful. If someone comes to PR you got a tour guide here (Only if you wrote something helpful) HAHAHAH
     
    #56
  7. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Real men don't cheat. I'd rather get my butt kicked every week than win one match by cheating.

    You did the right thing -- good luck in your next round!
     
    #57
  8. jmverdugo

    jmverdugo Hall of Fame

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    "Oh Hell NO" was indeed the right answer.
     
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  9. Brian11785

    Brian11785 Hall of Fame

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    Awesome. My faith in humanity is momentarily restored.

    The gall of that coach. I am so happy that you and your team rejected his sudden death offer. We should not be encouraging sandbagging by letting these people think that, once caught, there won't be consequences. And the plea to your manhood is hilarious.
     
    #59
  10. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    The captain should actually be put on 1 yr probabation and not allowed to captain, that has been standard procedure in my area when such an aggregious self-rate occurs.

    Congrats on winning the appeal and now you will have a target on your back for calling out the cheaters.
     
    #60
  11. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

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    Congratulations on winning the grievance. You absolutely did the right thing.

    I also totally agree with JLyon on what he wrote. Their captain should have gotten a 1 year suspension for bringing on a self-rate like this. He can plead ignorance, but captains are supposed to know the League regulations (including the self rate instructions) and they are responsible for who is on their roster. In my section, the captain also usually gets a punishment of some sort when a player is disqualified like this.

    In addition, the idea of this "sudden death" match is ridiculous! How exactly was he proposing the USTA would look at this?

    "Uh, yeah... I know we lost the match because we cheated and used an ineligible player... but I talked the other coach into letting us play a rematch, and we won... so change it in the computer and let us advance..."

    As far as I know, there are no provisions in the USTA League rules for a sudden death rematch when you cheat like this! Therefore, I bet the USTA would not have allowed this either. By the way, I wouldn't be above e-mailing the USTA coordinators that handled this grievance and let them know what their captain did. I would think that this could be an additional sportsmanship violation (and result in the suspension that the other captain should have gotten in the first place). It all depends on how vigilent your USTA section is being in trying to root out this problem, which varies across the country.
     
    #61
  12. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    From who, the cheaters themselves? I think they'll be the ones wearing a target.

    Other teams sure won't target the OP's team. Sandbagging is one of the most widely-despised activities in rec tennis and good on OP for rooting some of it out.
     
    #62
  13. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Congrats to the OP on winning the appeal.

    To be honest I thought it would be a mix-up where the self-rated guy on the team happened to have the same name as a former DI player / olympic hopeful, but was actually not the same person. I couldn't imagine why an ex-DI and olympic-caliber athlete would have any interest in 3.5 tennis. Guess I was wrong :oops:

    To those that think the captain should be suspended: It's a tough one. I mostly agree, especially if the captain has engaged in funny business in the past.

    But the flip side is that the captain is sometimes in the dark. It happened to me several years ago... I had a new player join my team, I didn't know his history at the time, but then found out later after the season that he was actually on probation from USTA for 5 years, had registered again under a different variation of his name, and then joined my team. I had no idea. He only played for me a couple of times and had no impact on any match outcome, but still I would obviously never had taken him on had I known.
     
    #63
  14. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    The difference is you would offer a mea culpa and try to make it right if it had affected your matches and then came to light.

    The other captain here wasn't interested in doing the honorable thing.
     
    #64
  15. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    Most teams will applaud but the long time cheaters will be the ones whining and moaning and groaning that someone finally started holding the team and captains accountable. I personally think the protester should remain anonymous outside of the USTA offices.
     
    #65
  16. FedHenry

    FedHenry Rookie

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    I spoke yesterday to players from several teams that were watching the other categories at night and they back me up on my decision to file the appeal. And also found out that their captain had file a NTRP grievance several years ago and the player was DQ also and his team was eliminated and the captain team progress to the sectionals championship. SO he is crying for something he did also and no the table turn and he doesnt like it HAHA
     
    #66
  17. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    You think he took 6 yrs off then agreed to play in a league and didn't practice? I have a bridge to sell you. Actually as many as you can afford 'til your money runs out. 2 or 3 two hour workouts and a former DII player would - if he plays hard - destroys a 3.5.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
    #67
  18. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Oh, cool, we're rewinding to this conversation.

    Other people have different experiences from mine. That's been established. I'm ok with that.
     
    #68
  19. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    That guy has a 'pair'! To try to turn it back on you? The situation is all his making. Cause and effect.
     
    #69
  20. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I agree. The captain should only be suspended if there is some proof that he was part of the conspiracy. Like, if he admits (or someone overheard that) he told the guy to lie on his self-rating. If not, his team losing a playoff match is punishment enough. That sort of thing has repercussions.
     
    #70
  21. goober

    goober Legend

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    The new rules in our section allows the captain to be punished without proof. The burden is on the captain to make sure that the self rate questions are filled out correctly
     
    #71
  22. FedHenry

    FedHenry Rookie

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    Our semifinal match was today at 6:30 pm, at 4:00 pm i got a called that one of my player had been file a grievance against by the same captain. I had 45 minutes to answer the appeal. My player played junior at sub-16 in 2004 and high school tennis and his application was filed correctly so when the reviewed came my guy came off clean and he lost another appeal HAHAHA.
    Game summary:
    We lost 4-1 with two doubles decided in super tie breaks 10-8 and 10-7
    So it was a hard fought game so i'm proud of my guys

    After all that i got text from the captain telling me
    "all that and to lose 4-1. FAIL"
    My co-captain sent him a classic message nothing personal and told me not to answer because i was going to get personal HAHAH

    I wanted to tell him
    " because of this is why how you are in live FAT, DIVORCED AND Never played in a semi of the sectionals" BOOM! but i'm gonna be the better person

    So guys thanks a lot for everything and weight in on what you think of this guy
    A character, right?
     
    #72
  23. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    FedHendry,

    Be proud of your team and having the balls to file the appeal and win it.

    The other Captain is a sore loser and IMO a complete loser. He cheated and got caught.

    Whatever happened to your team on the court doesn't matter, your actions stopped that Captain from cheating your team and other teams. The other Captains in PR owe you a big thank you.

    That Captain will wear the Scarlet 'S'of a cheater for the rest of his USTA time.

    Well done FedHenry!
     
    #73
  24. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I don't know what the actual rules are in this section, that's just how I would hope the outcome would be regardless of the actual rules.
     
    #74
  25. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    I think that's too harsh.

    For example, in my section Adult league is in the spring. It's preceded by mixed in the winter (and also the upcoming 40+ season). What if a player self-rates and plays in one of those leagues before Adult? Does the Adult captain need to review how they self-rated even though that was already done previously?

    Another example: A player might have self rated in the previous year, but not played enough matches to get a computer rating (I forget exactly, but I think you need something like 4 matches against other computer rated players in order to shed the self-rating). Do I as a captain need to review how this person self-rated in the previous year?

    No thanks. I will not knowingly play a self-rated player who rated inappropriately, but I am also not prepared to play detective and verify why they rated the way they did a year ago.
     
    #75
  26. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Orange- the detective work would involve a tennis link search. If there's an S still next to it in "find a rating" they are a risk. Look them up in the search for their results.

    You probably know most folks in the scene in your area. Not likely that someone pops up out of nowhere and you can't figure out their story by simply asking face to face.
     
    #76
  27. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Pretty much sums it up.

    OP, good job not being pulled into a P*ssing Contest - nothing good to come of it. Life's way too short - work on your backhand! :)
     
    #77
  28. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Right, I know it's easy to check whether they are self rated... But if so, it could have been a long time since they filled in the questionnaire, and I don't feel that as their current captain I should have to rehash it with them. Not a huge deal as you say, and not that many bad self rated 4.5s at least around here, but still I don't like the principle behind this rule. What if the player lies to the captain just as he lied to USTA?
     
    #78
  29. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Rehash? I'm envisioning a 30 second conversation.
     
    #79
  30. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Cool. So it could potentially go something like this:

    Me: Hey Bob, I see you are a self-rated 4.5...
    Bob: Dunno, they made me rate last year but I played last season and mixed this year also.
    Me: Well, you're still self-rated... so I have a few questions to ask you... along the lines of the questionnaire you filled out.
    Bob: I don't remember how I answered!
    Me: That's ok, I just need to know if you ever played college or HS tennis, and how old you are.
    Bob: 39, played in HS, then some DIII
    Me: Interesting, did your school offer tennis scholarships?
    Bob: Naa, I don't think so... [meanwhile, Bob thinking to self, "well, they did offer scholarships, but I didn't get one, so..."]

    1. An unlikely scenario to be sure, and even more unlikely that there would be a self-rating appeal and so on, but in principle, why should I as captain be on the hook if it comes to light that Bob lied?

    2. Now if you're suggesting that I need to ask what school etc, then research whether or not they offered scholarships 20 years ago... then that's not 30 seconds and is far more onerous than I'm prepared to take on as captain.
     
    #80
  31. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Your 4 questions are your due diligence. I wouldn't do anything further unless my gut tells me to...ie, the guy is just obviously too good to play at your level. Then, I just wouldn't put him in a lineup until I have a few minutes to google the guy and his school's media guide.
     
    #81
  32. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Fair enough, that's reasonable.
     
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