Need help how to use a crank machine.

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by tennis4, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    Yes, I am getting a crank! Very excited about it.

    Can the masters here give me a tutorial how to use it? Thanks very much.
     
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  2. iradical18

    iradical18 Professional

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    I've strung plenty of racquets but never on a crank, you would benefit greatly from spending some time on youtube browsing stringing videos. There are pleeeenty out there, also the manual you get when your machine arrives should be helpful as well.
     
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  3. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    what did you purchase?

    ditto on the videos. pay special attention to mounting the frame and the rest will come over time. try not to worry about your speed as it will come with experience.
     
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  4. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    The only thing different about using a crank is how you pull tension. Place the string in the gripper and turn the crank. You don't know it yet but your real questions are not going to be how to use a crank.
     
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  5. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    Normally how slow (speed) do you slide the tension head? I heard the actual tension from a LO is lower than a CP, how do you address this?

    I am getting a Prince NEOS 1000. Like its simple design and low maintenance. I've used a X-2 for a while so this is new to me.
     
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  6. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like you are picking up that used Neos you mentioned in a different thread. You may also find that the Neos manual is helpful. If you are not getting one with the machine, I suspect several of us on this board can provide you with a pdf of one. Congrats and good luck.
     
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  7. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    I take more than one, but less than 5 seconds to crank a string. Probably about three seconds. Not too slow, but not too fast. Find something, a pace, which you can repeat easily, over and over.

    Next, you want to also clamp off your strings in an equally repeatable pace.

    After that, you'll have to decide what gives you the reults you like, tension-wise (compared to your DW?).

    If you still have the x-2, you could string rackets on each and see where they settle and come up with an adjustment factor if you must.
     
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  8. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    How slow you turn the crank determines how much stretch you take out of the string befor it locks out. Just do it the same each time. If a LO locks at 60 pounds it will do it over and over and over again. 60 pounds is 60 pounds no matter what it is pulled with. If a CP pulls at a higher tension it is overshoot or out of adjustment.

    Here is why a LO normally produces a softer stringbed than a CP. when the tensioner locks out the string is help in the position it was in when the lock out occurred and no FUTHER stretching is done. Just clamp off and you are on to the next string. Nothing wrong with that as it produces a consistent string job.

    When a CP pulls tension the stringer must then remove the last clamped string and move the clamps to the string being tensioned and clamp it. All the while while this is being done the CP continues to stretch the string as it relaxes so the string continues to be stretched. If you want to try to duplicate that process with a LO pull more than one time.

    Here is a video showing that process:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aYI5DXQxSA

    If you want you can just pull once. If the string bed is too soft for you increase your tension. First things first though just start stringing and see how you like it when you are more familiar with the machine you can start refining your process to get more consistent. Don't think too much this is fun not work. LOL For some of us.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
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  9. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    Not sure what you mean here.

    edit: i guess you're talking mains. yep, makes sense, nvm.
     
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  10. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Crosses also. When you pull tension with a CP you are still doing some operation to clamp it. All the while while up to the point when the string is clamped the CP is pulling stretch out of the string. In the crosses it is even more as the CP help to overcome friction of the mains.
     
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  11. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    yes but I, for some reason, was interpreting that you were removing last clamp before clamping next tensioned string on crosses.

    text incommunicado. gotcha, it WILL continue to stretch/pull.
     
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  12. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I agree it is very helpful. You can download it here: http://img.tennis-warehouse.com/pdfs/NEOSManual.pdf
     
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  13. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    When I pull the string again, should I clamp it before the 2nd pass, or do the 2nd pass right after the first one?

    I am getting a brand new NEOS 1000, act on the advise from one of you. It will be here today and I will share the pictures here. Really excited about this, I can't wait!
     
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  14. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    Just pull till lockout, then release the lockout and re-tension without letting the tension off the string (you'll have to barely "back up" to release the L/O). Keep your hand on the crank handle!!!!!!
    Clamping each time wouldn't make much sense to me and also would become less consistent perhaps, pending the time you left it clamped.

    If you're gonna double pull, develop a repeatable consistent method, just like the other movements made.
     
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  15. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    tbuggle is correct
     
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  16. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I watched that video and now I understand why you asked the question. I put the clamp on the string primarily so you could see how much a string relaxes in about 5 seconds. Wth the close up of the clamp and the upper support you can see although the string is relaxing the distance between the support and the clamp never changes. It also enabled me to show you how the string was stretched more. You don't need to clamp your string until after the final pull.
     
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  17. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    Awesome on the new machine. Did you get the cover too? I really recommend that you keep it covered when not in use--much easier to keep it clean that way.
     
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  18. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    oh, the cover wasn't mentioned in the description. Is it always part of the package?

    It should be here today, we will see.

     
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  19. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    The machine arrives!

    It took me more than 10 minutes to push the tension head handle. Now I am looking to put the clamp in. Stupid? I question myself a few times already. When I pull the clamp bottom wide open, I still can't put it into the glide bar. Is it me or the precision issue? The side screw holding the glide bar are too tight that I don't want to use too much force...

    Right now I am having a machine but not able to put them together. Laught, laught, laught hard ... I don't know what is going on.
     
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  20. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    Ok, I just put it in.
     
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  21. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    Not sure I understand the tension head issue. Are you sure the locking lever was disenaged? As far as the clamps are concerned, it doesn't sound like you've opened them up completely. See p.5 of the manual--you should be able to flip the clamp latch all the way over and that will open the bottom. Take your time and consult the manual.
     
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  22. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    There is a spring-base stopper on the rod (attached to the tension head) where the handle attaches. It was so tight that I had a hard time to push the handle in so it can engage (lock).
    At the end, I figure out there is a little "gap" so I push the handle downward and let the stopper fit into that gap, then push it in.

    As far as installing the clamp is concerned, I have to remove the spring and everything, take the handle off the lock position, then the bottom can be open big enough, now it can be put on to the glide bar without any struggle.

    At one point I felt so hopeless, I looked at the packaging box: was it made in china? no, it was made in taiwan. Anyway, it has nothing to do with that, it is such a mechanical marvel that my average IQ felt a little challenge.

    Everything looks good. I wish the manual could be more detail.

    I plan to give it a test run tomorrow. Thanks everyone for the help. I sure will post a few pictures to show off, at one point ...

     
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  23. therecanbeonlyone

    therecanbeonlyone New User

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    This really cannot be stressed enough. I didn't learn this lesson the hard way. Hopefully you won't either and your knuckles, huevos, thighs, elbows etc will thank you.
     
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  24. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    I didn't read many of the replies, so I'm not sure if this was mentioned. The pro at my tennis shop told me he recommends I set the tension about 2-4 lbs higher on a crank to get my desired tension. So I've set the crank to 62lbs if I want ~60lbs tension on my stringbed. Tension has felt great so far.

    One thing to be wary of: if you tighten your knot using your crank (some people do this) be careful not to overtighten! I've popped 2 strings on the very last knot because I got too anxious. The reason you'd even consider it is to avoid losing the tension right after your clamp. I'm not sure if it's even worth it.
     
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  25. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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  26. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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  27. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    It was this balling stopper: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9Oy3gOFVtLXaE1WaWlxTHJwcmc/edit?usp=sharing
    so tight that the handle can't be push in and sit on the stopper:



    Now it is fine, so fine that I can take it out easily, don't even need to pull.

    Another update: The initial callbration showed that actual tension was 5-7 lbs higher. I strung first time yesterday, tension not adjusted. The feel was kind of werid. I did the calibration a few minutes ago, it takes about 5-8 seconds to settle and is near the reference tension. I am going to string another one later to see if it works.
     
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  28. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Then you are pulling well over reference tension. You want to set the tensioner @ the lock out tension not the settled tension.
     
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  29. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    How much time do people like you take to clamp the string after the tensioner kicks in? I think this time gap will decide the final tension. Right now it takes me about 3-4 seconds to put on the clamp. So it is like 2 seconds or less to slide the tensioner to lock-out position, 3-4 seconds to put on the clamp, is this the right way to approach it?




     
    #29
  30. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    since all strings stretch and "relax" at different rates you can only control certain variables, lockout tension being one of them (as well as clamping time...).

    therefore, if you try to achieve a certain tension after lockout, stretch, etc....your results will be all over the board (or even moreso).
     
    #30
  31. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    It does not matter if it takes you 5 seconds, 5 minutes or five hours. Think about it when the tensioner locks out it is locked and the string is not stretched any more. If you don't clamp it it will lose tension through the relaxation process if you do clamp it the same thing happens.

    Different strings stretch and relax differently. All string s will not stretch the same or relax the same. So although your tension may be consistent in the racket for the same string it may not be the same for a hybrid. When in doubt call the manufacturer and ask them how it should work. Pete is the person at Prince you need to talk to and he has been an MRT for a long time. Call Prince and just ask for Pete or tell them you have a stringing question. Their number is 800 2 TENNIS. What do you have to lose?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
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  32. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    BTW I don't use the lock out tensioner that often I use a Wise CP tensioner. With a constant pull tensioner it makes a big difference if you pull for 5 seconds or 5 minutes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
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  33. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    I strung one racquet on X-2 and another on neos 1000 under the same tension.

    While stringmeter's readings were close, the one from neos 1000 appeared to give me better feel. I guess each stringing machine has its own fingerprint, or characterisitc, which reflects in the stringjob.

    Irvin, when I set the tensioner @ the lock out tension, the "real" tension I get would be lower, how much lower will depend on the pace between it kicks in and I clamp the string?

     
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  34. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I don't think so. When you turn the crank you will go from 0 lbs of tension to whatever tension you have set on the lockout. The longer it takes the tensioner to lockout the longer the string is stretched. At lockout your tension is set. What you are explaining is how a CP tensioner works. There is a distinct difference.

    If you only pull one time with the crank you will end up with a lower tension than the reference tension. The difference between what a lockout does and what a constant pull does is very noticeable as you can attest.
     
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  35. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    So the resulting tension is most likely determined by the pace the tension head is turned? And I shouldn't worry much about the time between the tension head is locked and the string is clamped?

    I ask this because sometime it takes me a second or two longer to clamp the string. I've tried to be consistent in both turning the tension head and clamping the string, but the latter part probably will need some more practice first.

    I used an electronic scale when calibrating the machine last night. The tension peaked when the tension head was locked, then started decreasing. The read out became constant after 4-5 seconds.

    Because of this, I wonder when I clamp the string might contribute to the final tension I will get, don't know if I worry too much or simply not the case.


     
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  36. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    tennis4 what you are saying is true. The string will continue to relax forever. It just loses most of its tension in the first 4-5 seconds. That is why if you pull again after 5 seconds you can recover that tension loss.

    One important point about the lockout is that at lockout the tension does not move any further. The string is just held. It does not matter if it is held by the tensioner or held by a clamp.
     
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  37. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    Does it mean maintaining consistent pace of sliding the tension head is more important than that of clamping the string ( time gap between tension head locked and putting on the clamp) ?
     
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  38. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I think a steady consistent pull is more important
     
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  39. tennis4

    tennis4 Rookie

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    thanks Irvin. I will experiment all these.

    It is so much different operating a crank than a DW! I am relutant to say ... I should have upgraded sooner. While DW can produce good result too, it just needs more attention.
     
    #39
  40. redduck996

    redduck996 New User

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    Does anyone know if it matters or not with a crank system to unwind the spring and reset the tension back to zero when not in use or can I just leave it set at ~57-59 lbs?
     
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  41. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I think you can leave it.
     
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